The Stolen Valor Act
I found this to be interesting Sunday reading: People posing as combat veterans are getting nailed now. They even seem to have the FBI going after them. I don't know how far this should really go, but I have no problem with nailing scuzbags who make up war stories or claim military experiences they're not entitled to.
Kudos to AntiWar.com for the link.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 8:34 AM
37 comments
37 Comments:
Yeah Fred, those people are lowlifes. I come from a military family and I know Just about about every combat Vet I know (and i've know a lot) didn't really talk about Their war experiances except in the most genreral of terms. So i've always been a bit suspicious of people who tell "heroic" war stories.
The way to tell who is and who is not a vet is the DD-214 Its the comprhensive service record of every US service member. The DD 214 tells when a person served where they were stationed.what military schools they atteded any awards and decorations they received and any diciplinary actions recorded against them.
If there are any disputes over a persons military service the DD-214 should settle them.
This is a document, I might add, that George W bush has never produced.
So its no suprise that there would be miltary fakers and scam artists abounding when the guy who is charge of the is a military deserter who loves nothing better than to bask in reflected martial glory.
Being a cowardly braggart certainly worked for him.
Fred, I actually caught a man impersonating a Naval Officer. He was at one of the most famous flyboy bars in the military, Trader John's in Pensacola, FL (the cradle of Naval Aviation.)
I was delivering Budweiser kegs and while I waited for a signature, I sat and listened to this asshat tell the most remarkable tales to this woman on the stool next to him. He was in full dress whites, inluding the little white gloves (very strange to be wearing in a bar) and wore the rank of LT. (O-3)I was immediatly suspicious.
Having been in the Navy, I noticed he was wearing an unusually large amount of "chest cabbage" for an officer of that rank, one of which was a purple heart (very rare for a Sailor). I noticed his Pistol Expert decoration was way out of place (It is very low in precedence and is most often worn at the bottom of the stack.)and upon closer inspection noticed that virtually nothing was in its proper place.
I decided to play dumb and impressed. I pointed to one of the most recognizable ribbons in the Navy, a sea ribbon, and asked him what he got it for. He said for serving in Kosovo. (BULLSHIT!) I called the police and by the time I had collected my signature he was being detained by the, very military friendly, Pensacola Police Dept.
I don't recall dubya claiming heroship or seeing Skerry's 214 either. Was that the "records" that was supposed to be made public but was partially "released" only to the Boston Globe 18 months after his "promise"? Just curious.
Wadical [I love that name] wrote,"I called the police and by the time I had collected my signature he was being detained".
I'm curious just what law was applied here? If the guy is just talking shit, what crime was he arrested for?
I could see it, if he was trying to scam someone, and I'll bet there's more than enough of that going on. But, just cause some guy's a dickhead, should he be arrested? I don't know about that.
I know the military has rules about falsifying service records, or wearing unearned medals, but what do local laws say about it?
It gets pretty intense, amongst military types. I remember some Navy Admiral getting outed for wearing medals he didn't earn a while back. He ended up killing himself, after the story broke.
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Sounds like the jerk was trolling for some crotch mackerel. Is a bar at the Pensacola NAS fertile territory? Knowing the locals in the area I suspect it was unwise. Heh!
In olden days local jurisdictions were authorized to enforce Federal laws. With the current prohibition against arresting wetbacks this may have changed (IN BLUE STATES).
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Fred, local laws don't apply. It's a federal offense. And yes it applies to civilians as well. Refer to the following in the UNITED STATES CODE
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 33 > § 704
Whoever knowingly wears, manufactures, or sells any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the
service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 33 > § 702
§ 702. Uniform of armed forces and Public Health Service
Whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority, wears the uniform or a distinctive part thereof or anything similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of any of the armed forces of the United States, Public Health Service or any auxiliary of such, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
If he were trying to defraud by his impersonating it would be punishable under 18 USC § 912.
Talking shit ain't illegal. Lying to some bar fly broad ain't illegal. Wearing a uniform that you are not authorized to wear most definitly is. Wearing the medals is a separate offence. If you didn't earn it...you don't wear it. Our military deserves the distinction of being the ONLY ones authorized to wear the uniform of the United States and to display military decorations...and yes under penalty of law.
It is possible that they detained him for a federal officer to make a formal arrest. That happens often enough.
Leo, Trader Johns has provided yours truly with a variable diet of....ahem...."mackerel". I was enlisted and stationed at NASP for Naval Aircrewman Candidate School. I didn't even have to lie. Short haircut...pretty much qualifies you. This dude was probably workin' way to hard to get some trim. One of the...."mackerels" (caught at another....fishin' hole) actually told me she enjoyed dating enlisted guys, that officers were jerks, which is pretty much true. Most officers, especially the butter bar juniors are class A pricks. This was in the '80's so all of 'em thought they were Tom Freakin Cruise.
wadical, you are so "red statish". Try enforcing Title 18 in Arcata or other places in Humboldt County, Kalifornia. They are a "nuclear free" city with a "Peace Commission" at taxpayers expense and are considering impeachment of the Commander in Chief.
Leo, that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me in weeks....sniff...I'm gettin' misty eyed.
Cyrillic dude GWB always struts around like he's some military hero It's an intregal part of his whole "great Leader" schtick. It's totally phony just like almost about everything about the guy
If you can locate a copy of George W. Bush's DD 214 then by all means share it with us
How the hell do you know he "struts". Exactly how should he walk so as not to "strut"?? I suppose if he quit strutting you'd accuse him of "swaggering". Who gives a shit how the man walks?
Just as eluding as this DD214 that's got you all bent would be one single shred of evidence that he either portrays himself as or claims to be a "military hero". You want phony? You want strutting? You had him, dude. His name was Bill Clinton. Why don't you cough up HIS DD214....I'd like to see that.
Yeah Wadical sounds like you're just playing little word games to avoid the question..
Bill Clinton never served in the US military therefore he does not have a DD 214
Nieher does Dick Cheney Paul, Wolfowitz, Condalezza Rice, Eliot Abrahms, Richard Pearle, Douglas Feith, Kenneth Adelman Roger Ailes Bill Frist Tom Delay Joe Scarbourough, Neal Boortz Dennis Hastert, Scooter Libby, Bill O Reilly Frank Gaffeny, Sean Hannitty Don Evans, Jeb Bush Andrew Card,John Ashcroft William Bennett, John Bolton, Ann Coutler Gary Bauer, Karl Rove, Roy Blount Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingerich,Neal Boortz, Micheal Reagan, Micheal Savage
All these people either planned or were prominent cheerleaders for the Iraq war but none of them has seved Its small wonder Military scamsters are abounding when we have such frauds running the country
No word games here. I know Bill Clinton didn't serve. I know he has no DD214. My point is made. Yours is not. You said GW struts around like he's some military hero and is phony. Cite me an example. Just one. I'm not dodging a point....you made no point. I merely pointed the finger to the most corrupt president of our age to draw contrast to this one. You've not seen his DD214. No one has, so you can't really assume a damned thing now can you. The only thing that has been proven is that there are people who are very itchy to make that document appear with bad grades, to the tune of forging other documents themselves. Yet no one has seen John Kerry's illustrious service record. He never produced that simple little piece of paper, yet nearly everyone he served with was willing to go on record as to the shitty nature of that service. His service raises more questions than answers. He is the one who is a self proclaimed hero. The very fact that GW hasn't shown a DD214 is your ONLY evidence that he did not serve honorably. Well, whether or not YOU happen to agree with this War, He's certainly served honorably in his current office and that's all that matters to me. He's an effective Republican and therefore a Democratic Demon. I have openly disagreed with his policy several times but He's 10 times the president that cigar shovin' piece of shit was before him. I'll dodge or confront a point whenever it is you decide to make one.
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Wanna add a few dhimmis to your list there chief...I notice you conveniently left them off. Typical of the left to stack the scales to try to make a point with a lot of smoke and mirrors....enough with that shit. It's not even a good trick.
Better yet, there high and mighty......DID YOU SERVE? Yeah, Yeah, I know...you "came from a military family" and you know a lot of combat vets. Big freakin' deal....have YOU ever signed on the line or put your ass on one? If not, on what soap box do you stand? No big deal, I guess, if you didn't...I guess people just kinda like to weed out the chicken hawks when the discussion of who served and who served honorably comes up.
robash141, if you don't know the difference between cyrillic and greek polytonic, how do we know you can differentiate between your posterior and the Sahara desert?
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An example of George Bush strutting around like a psuedo military hero would be that infamous little stunt where he landed on the aircraft carrier and declared that we had won the war. Of corse there have been many other examples of GWB using our service people as props fo his photo opportunties ..
Its nice to see such a patritic fellow like yourself would be so quick to insult my familly members service As to the question about weather I served in the military or not the answer of course is yes. I was an Army Paratrooper for four years So Im not just some militaristic Jock-sniffer like a lot of prominent Republicans seem to be I actually did sign on the dotted line.
Why is it Right wing Blog dudes like to put Greek stuff in thier is it to make the idiotic things they say seem more "intellectual"
"Why is it Right wing Blog dudes like to put Greek stuff in thier is it to make the idiotic things they say seem more "intellectual""
Looks like robash141's chute failed to open at least once. Will that show up on his DD214?
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George Bush was an Air Force Fighter Pilot. He had a shiney little pair of wings on his uniform. You don't get those by just showing up to a couple of weekend drills. He, with the exception of his father probably had more right to wear that flight gear than any other President. He capitalized on an effective and influential moment in the name of publicity (newsflash ***he's a politician***) and thus infuriated liberals and you guys are still bitchin' about it today.
Admit it. You're basically pissed that it was a jet, and he was wearing the required NATOPS flight gear to ride in that jet. Come on....you can say it. Got yer dander up didn't it. Would it have suited you more had he been delivered aboard the carrier in a C2 COD, the only other option. I mean it's a propeller driven aircraft and not as sexy as a jet, and doesn't require the Tom Cruise get up. Not good enough, huh? You'd probably be satisfied with nothing less than him disembarking wearing a Big Bird outfit. So the man made a flashy entrance, who gives a shit?? Truth is, it was probably a logical choice. The President's schedule is compressed to say the least. He probably shaved an hour, maybe two off the travel time by riding in an S-3 with a max speed of about 150 mph faster than a C-2. He could have been delivered by a fighter plane...easily. I think it was a rather judicious use of assets and perhaps nowhere near as flashy as it could have been.
Name ONE, and I mean it dude, JUST ONE President that hasn't used the Military on a number of occasions for photo ops. You're accusing this President....of being Presidential. Find a new freakin' accusation.
At what point did I insult your family's military service? I read back through my comment and failed to find it. I wouldn't insult the service of any Vet, conservative or liberal. So congrats on passin' the Chicken Hawk test.
It's simple, man. Just pick a point and make it. Then provide some factual data to back it up. It's called debate. You hurled the accusations, I'm just asking you to back it up and cite examples. In the absence of factual data, perhaps you, as a Vet, should abstain from insulting the service charactaristics of another. Question it, by all means. I got no problem at all with that. I would have some questions for him myself if given the opportunity. But I'd carefully trod the soil you're on. What you're doing is slander...nothing more.
I don't give a flying ape shit if the price of gas is 4.00 a gallon. I don't care if the national deficit rose 100%. I don't care if we invade every Islamic backwater in the whole cursed middle east. Since September 11, 2001, no additional major terrorist attacks have happened on US soil because we have opened the mother of all cans of whoop ass. And as long as that remains the case I shall assume his presidency to weigh on the side of success in this, the most important half decade in American history since WW2. Or did you forget?
Greek offend you or something? It actually hides a little meaning behind it...a little history lesson if you will. Why don't you stop by his site. Do a little research. Maybe even ask, I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you. So what, he's got a flashy icon and screen name and you don't. It shows the level of YOUR intelligence to suggest that the reason he includes it is to bolster his own. You, on the other hand, will appear more intelligent if you lay off the name calling and finger pointing and support your own arguments with lucid and articulate debate. Mud is a poor choice of ammunition amongst those willing to debate an issue with facts.
If robash141 was "lucky" enough to include "White House" duty on his DD-214 between 1993 2001 it would have included serving hors d'ouvres to renters of the Lincoln Bedroom for the $ benefit of those who "loathe" the military.
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Cyrillic Boy
It's the Marine Corps that does White house duty not the Army Airborne . Congratulations, you've once again shown your wanton Ignorance about all military stuff..
sounds like all your good for is taking little bitchy cheap shots at Bill Clinton (Who i didn't vote for)
The reason I don't like the Greek is because it reminds me of vacuous little frat boy slack-asses like GWB
My grandfather, a highly decorated Naval aviator and lifelong Democrat was probably spinning in grave at Arlington cemetary when deserter boy Bush pulled his cheesy little flight suit stunt.
Tryng to bury someone in excessive verbiage full of smelly red herrings is another right wing Blogger dude trick.
You guys are so predictable
I still say the reason there are Military fakers and imposters is because the Biggest Military wannabe fake of them all is running the country.
You're pathetic. I'm suprised you had the IQ to to get in the Army. You're incapable of debate. Read your comment out loud. Go ahead. You sound like a pissed off school kid. You spend 4 measly years in the Army and you got the scrote to call a retired police officer a "boy"?
You think there's no Army personnel on staff at the White House, Mr. military expert? I suggest you go do a little research. You'll discover your OWN ignorance.
"Bitchy cheap shots at Clinton"? "Cheesy little flight suit stunt?" Even one nominally skilled at debate would have picked points out of my post above it and argued them with their own. You seem incapable of recognizing what a point is...you've yet to make one.
Didn't vote for Clinton, huh? Lemme guess....Nader?
No one gives a shit about your grandfather spinning in his Arlington grave. That makes absolutely NO POINT AT ALL. It just shows your inability to argue intelligently.
Feeling buried in verbiage are you? No wonder you're pissed off. I'm sorry, I'll try to type slower. "Smelly red herrings"?? WTF? You just got through smoking some weed didn't you?
Man, you suck. I'm suprised you keep returning for this abuse. You're not even putting up a fight. You must get paid from the neck down, because you have shown nothing from the neck up. This is not even fun anymore, it feels like we're beating up a drunk.
robash141: How many jumps did you make? Or were you in one of those "leg" outfits that wore the 82nd or 101 patch and just drank beer at one of the Ft. Benning watering holes? Post your DD-214. What's your problem, get turned down by one of the frats at CR, or was it a sorority? Or did you get rejected for admission to McKinleyville High for failure in English comp?
I'm not going to respond to Mr. Anonymous. except to say that It just goes to show how shallow and self serving a lot "we support the Troops" and "we love the military" rhetoric coming from these George Bush Heads.
Look at how anxoius they are to insult my service and my familiy's service just because I don't go along with their little Ideological construct
Dillweed, who the hell insulted your service. I asked you that once before. This is an example of how you are incapable of debate. That has already been addressed above yet you refuse to quit saying the same damned thing. You've said nothing that hasn't been rebutted. Instead of arguing the rebuttal you keep saying the same thing over and over again.
Perhaps romper room has a blog you can go argue on. You ain't doin' too well on this one.
Sorry I was in the 82nd Airborne , not the Hasty Pudding Debate Society.
You haven't rebutted anything. The vast majority of what you said was brainwashed partisan fliberrtigibberish, excuse making and knee jerk defensivenss.I guess you've got good reasons to be defensive
Its funny how these neo-cons jerks are always yammering about personal responsibility but they always excuse themselves and Bush for everything .
My point is as Justice Brandeis said ‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
Since without a doubt Bush is a posturing fraud who loves to bask in reflected martial glory and puff up his non existant military achievments.His sucess only encourages other scamsters who are similarly dishonestly inclined If not so ambitious and grandiose.
I think however that It's good that Americans are getting wise to thes types of People If Bush's latest poll numbers are any indication
fliberrtigibberish?? Careful with them big words, son. You wield them like a four year old with a shotgun...you might hurt yourself! robash....just damn! You truly are challenged. It staggers the imagination that you are able to zip up your fucking pants. Are you a resident of some adult congregate living facility? Do they know you're using their computer?
I've made several rebuttals. You don't read very well. You certainly don't articulate a thought very well. Your composition is even worse. If you're not interested in "Hasty Pudding" deabate, then why in the name of sanity do you keep coming back here with even more of the same stinkin' nonsense to spout.
You can't seem to grasp the fact that debate is a free exchange of ideas and thoughts that are rebutted and adressed point by point. Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah........."Bush is a posturing fraud"....Blah Blah Blah....."puff up his non existant military achievements." ...Blah Blah Blah. You can't cite one single example so you just keep saying it over and over again.
You gotta do better than....Bush is the stupidest stupid head. I'm just waiting for you to start rhyming or something or telling us he eats poo poo sandwiches! I'm afraid you have stepped right out of your league, young man.
I'm growing extremely weary of your ignorance so I shall retire and let you get your last little childish jab...I know you won't be able to sleep without it. I know that ignorance is bliss but God, it must suck to be you.
I have read all of these 30 comments and have reached some conclusions: robash141 hates GWB. robash's credentials include family having been in the military. robash was in the 82nd airborne. robash likes to attribute motives and labels to those he dissagrees with that he has no knowledge of. robash believes he and his family have been insulted when he is asked questions about his credentials. robash would fail a debating class at Hoopa elementary school.
That last statement was pretty racist you're Implying that Hoopa elementary school students are more stupid than other presumably whiter places.
This is a perfect example of what makes these Bush Idolators so hard to stomach. All this whining about how Im not debating them corectly They demand that I conform to some bogus rules of polite prep school debate. But they feel free to smear, attack dissemble and vicously demean anyone who disagrees with them.
A lot of your so called debating points weouls actually have to make sense before I could respond to them.
The same thug like mentality predominates from Karl Rove on down to the most low rent Bush blog groupie
I guess right wingers are so convinced of moral and intellectual superiority that they don't feel obliged to follow rules just like their feckless treaty breaking hero
"Do as I say not as I do" Is their mantra. Rules are something to be imposed on other people
They just want me to mind my manners so it will be much easier to just scream me down. The only consistent principle they have is political opportunism Its the playground bully mentality thats running America into the ground these days.
I hope and pray our country can survive rule by these trogs.
I think we have much more important things to worry about thanlowlife scammers putting phony decorations on military uniforms
rubbish141: " That last statement was pretty racist you're Implying..."
Ah yes, the "race card". I wondered when some left wing nit wit nutcase was going to use it when losing a debate here. You Marxist jerks always need to hurl epithets instead of lucid arguments.
It amazing how they can call me a commie in the same time they are whining about me hurling epithets that hurt his widdle feelings .
More of that right wing double standard for ya
Somehow I'm being overly PC if I call this dude on his obviously racist statement. The other loser made a slur against hispanics earlier in the thread So he's a obviously racist as well. But if you'd like to embarass yourself by defending these bigoted jerks then go ahead.
The thing I really can't stand and find utterly contemptable these George Bush Blog trogs is that they are all fired up about war and killing but they never want to go sign up to fight. If they are such Super-duper Patriots Why aren't they in Iraq ?
You never did answer about how many jumps you made? What was your MOS? Did you wear and Airborne Tab on your sleeve or just the 82nd patch. Just making sure you're not one of the phonies this whole post was about. And that's not an insult. It's a question.
You're gonna pray??? To who?
How do you know the people you've been slandering aren't decorated combat vets. who take offense that you would have the audacity to attack the service charactaristics of another person without having concrete facts to back it up.
robash141, having not been involved in this squabble. Without interjecting my own point of view, I'd like to offer you an objective point of view from an observer.
It seems to me the whole point you're trying to make is that you believe George Bush to be a faker and because of that, it encourages similar behavior from those who wear the uniform without being authorized. Am I right?
It's a point, but a very narrow and highly interpretive one. When making a point of this nature you need to be prepared to back it up with something. You've done a poor job of doing that.
The Wadical with the gun has mentioned multiple issues that you've failed to address. You dismissed them because you say they made no sense. They made sense to me, and I'm a Democrat.
Actually the only political diatribe in this whole thread has been yours, and, as a democrat, I'm quite embarassed for you that it was so poorly delivered. You've taken statements that were not necessarily racist and leaped to the conclusion that they were. If Spartacus referenced an underprivledged and poorly performing school and you assume it is because it has a primarily black student body...then really, it is YOU that has made race an issue and thus YOU who believes it is poorly performing because it's majority is black. Spartacus may see it as poorly performing because it is underfunded and poorly managed. You don't know, because you didn't ask. You assumed. Do you see how the race card is two edged? Do you see how it's played it cuts both ways? It's a card best left put away unless there is sufficient proof.
Wadical was right about at least one thing. You have spent much of this thread hurling mud instead factual evidence. There has been sufficient effort to engage you in true debate. You seem to be running from that opportunity.
I will close with a small remark in your defense. It was mentioned a couple of times, once in the comment above, that you might have been in some type of administrative support (or something similar)for your Army Unit and not necessarily a combat participant. My husband is currently deployed to Iraq. He is in supply and spends most of his time "inside the wire" as he likes to call it. But I will argue with anyone that his service is just as honorable as any commando jock type who gets shot at on a regular basis. He see's no need to embelish his service. He's very proud of the job he's doing and so am I.
Just to clear up a few items: Leonidas (not Spartacus but also a forlorn battle) is a Korean era vet who was drafted and served overseas in the Army Corps of Engineers. Hoopa elementary school is on the Hoopa Indian reservation in Humboldt County CA. Leonidas has many indian friends in the Yurok, Hupa and Karuk tribes. They are all fine people. The schools there are among the most overly funded and underperforming schools in the state through no fault of the Indians. Leonidas now lives in an integrated neighborhood in an Atlanta suburb and has a daughter in law of Korean descent. Leonidas is amused but not surprised to be labeled a racist by an ignorant Marxist (not necessarily communist) probable product of the public education system (of what level one can only guess). Oh , the old MOS was 1931 (Motor Sergeant).
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