The GREG Poll
Kudos to the Times- Standard for publishing the questions the Citizens for Real Economic Growth included in their public opinion poll on what the future of the Balloon Tract should be.
I wondered about that and, while I'm not saying the questions were necessarily skewed to acheive a given result, they could create a false positive or negative response simply because of the variety in the way people think about the question and choices offered.
I told Eureka Chamber of Commerce head honcho, J. Warren Hockaday, I might well fall into the group of people who think the Marina Center is not the best use for the Balloon Tract, despite being a supporter, if anything, of private development over government. Surprised?
Here's the list of the choices GREG offered in their poll:
The site could include...
A park with restored wetlands and trails?
A community pool and fitness center?
A convention center?
An aquarium?
A shopping mall or large retail development?
Residential housing and apartments?
(Remember that one of our commentors here suggested the Balloon Tract be turned over to the Eureka Housing Authority and redevelopment agencies, being the pet of local councils and supes makes it a good bet that the Eureka Redevelopment Agency might get involved.)
-that makes it five out of six of the choices offered being government projects. Has anyone considered another private option; Perhaps light or heavy industry?
That's why I might well say Marina Center might not be the best use for the Balloon Tract. I'd much rather see some sort of industry using at least some of the Balloon Tract. Problem is, that's highly unlikely to happen given the political climate in this county.
I'm probably missing some other potential non- government uses of the Balloon Tract. But, as I've pointed out before, this whole battle isn't about the environment, it's about those who prefer government as the major player in this county opposing those who prefer private solutions.
If the Marina Center is the most viable private solution to cleaning up the Balloon Tract, then I'll go with that one. Then again, I've said here before I don't have a problem with having a few empty lots around town, either.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 7:22 AM
91 comments
91 Comments:
Here's a novel idea: Sell it and let the owner use it for whatever suits him. Oh, I forgot. We're dealing with the humboldt soviet so whatever the enviro nazis decide will prevail.
I want my Home Depot so I can pick up the 50-pound "bricks" of marijuana in the vanities...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/14/home.depot.drugs/index.html
Way to go
ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ - Humboldt enviros didn't invent zoning. Technically speaking, the "owner" of all of the property is the commonwealth. We are tenants. The concept predates environmentalism and socialism for that matter by about 900 years.
In case anybody is interested, there is another reason that many people are against Home Depot. I think it's relevant and it hasn't really come up yet in the local debate.
http://www.saveourstate.org/homedepot.html
No matter what your position is on immigration, the balloon track, or big-box retail, it's important to recognize that this could become an issue later on, if we do indeed get a Home Depot.
Monday, June 19 will hold Forum #3, "Solutions to Toxics", at the Wharfinger Building in Eureka. Come see what all the fuss is about.
There you go again with that lame humboldt soviet line.
Anon. 12:55 is Stephen Lewis
Nope. it isn't Stephen Lewis.
EricVK reveals his socialist core at 11:30.
And those questions that are released are part of a larger survey. let's see the rest of it.
Leonard is right on this one.
This is not a society were the masses get to decide what a property owner does, outside of certain limitations. Just because it is Arkley, suddenly everyone wants every thing to change. It's so irrational.
What do you propose to bring jobs on the Tract?
I don't think it has much to do with Arkley. Much more to do with Big Box retail
"EricVK reveals his socialist core at 11:30."
Oh, well I've revealed it more profoundly in other venues, however, this is not socialist. It's common law. We don't own our property. It belongs to the sovereign - always has. Hence the term "emminent domain." It's a holdover from feudalism, where the king owned all of the land, deeded tenancies to lords, who then allowed peasants and the like to assume their tenancies for a price. The terminology has not changed - read your deed. Ask any real property attorney.
Now, the constitution placed a limitation on sovereign ownership, but it did not revoke it. It states simply in essence that the tenancy may not be revoked without just compensation. But your interest is defined as economic, not inherent. The state can force you to leave your property, so long as you are compensated. And if the sovereign ever revokes its Constitution, your interest is almost entirely reduced to the feudal arrangement.
Zoning is also a holdover from common law - a power exercised by inherent sovereign ownership.
Again, this isn't socialist. This is English common law.
And incidently, I don't think it should be that way, even as a quasi-socialist.
"This is not a society were the masses get to decide what a property owner does"
Well, actually it is, to the extent that "the masses" are represented by the sovereign. What "masses" are we talking about? People?
Any survey is only as good as the questions and these questions were slanted from the get go so the result was pre-ordained. By the way, where is Security National's own survey results? If 80% of Eureka residents support the Marina Center as rumored. I would think they'd be trumpeting the result by now.
Marina Center is a piece of shit
erik v kirk is correct. We do not own property. we only pay rent on it to the govt. No, the enviros did not invent zoning laws. It was socialists (progressives) of an earlier era but the enviros are now in the saddle. Shut up and sing.
Does Chris Crawford have anything to do with this? Because if he does, good chance the marina center is never going to happen.
Clean it up? Like the Halvorsen property? It'll still be there 30 years from now, blighted.
For the proponents sake, let's hope Crawford sits this one out.
bit writes: "Of course Fred's post was slanted from the get go. He should have posted the full context of the questions asked".
I don't think so. I provided a link to the full news article. Besides, I wasn't writing about a biased poll. I'd prefaced my remarks with,
"while I'm not saying the questions were necessarily skewed to acheive a given result,".
I was trying to make a point that the disagreement over the Balloon Tract/ Marina Center was about private vs. government development, not whether or not the CREG folks tried to deliberately manipulate a poll or its results.
Pay-n-Pak didn't kill Pierson's. Home Depot won't either. Pierson's, (and Ace's) prices may have to be adjusted, but as long as they compete well, they'll be successful. People already leave the area to shop there, the contractors shop elsewhere, even locally anyway.
And Larry Glass' business has foundered since the 80s. It's no one's fault but his own. He'll never have his glory days back. He didn't adapt with the times.
It comes back to this, bit, if you want to do something with the property, including clean it up, BUY IT.
Why not simply develop it within it's current zoning?
While clean up is certainly a valid issue, I think in this case it's only a red herring being thrown out- more of a monkey wrench in the machinery, if you will.
I say that only because other parcels on the bay have been capped as is being proposed for the Balloon Tract, but there was no objection to capping on those other parcels.
They might well be. If so, that's probably because of the Balloon Tract/ Marina Center controversy.
If Arkley had owned the land Adorni Center sits on, there might have been a lot more "interest" in that issue back then, as well.
Ok. Off to work for me. Just back in town after two days so lots for me to do. Was going to do a new post but the Times- Standard site was down went I started working on it. Maybe later.
The adorni center was disputed.Richard Marks was even behind that.The mall was disputed.That's why its important to fight harder here,proponents tend to erase history.Anon 7:38 am,that's another issue,why was enviroforensics denied an application to purchase the property?Oh,they turned it in after Security National,first comes first serve, no public inquiry,that's how things are run in this city.
If you got your wish and all those things were to be built instead, you can bet there would be no hue and cry about clean up - you would instead be defending capping. The shut-it-down crowd has gotten all hot and bothered, can't let ARKLEY do anything, oh my no. We should all be worried sick that he might improve things.
Stephen Lewis is right, the retrogressives want control, doom and gloom, misery and stagnation, government handouts, the forward thinking, creative constructive thinkers - and do-ers - are an anathema to bit and mresquan.
Obstruct and prevent.
Would we be having this discussion if a big box wasn't in the mix?
apologies Fred but I doubt the plazoid will let this appear on his blog.
I find it silly that Tad makes it so he has to screen comments before he presents them. Whilst Fred allows every comment and rarely puts his foot down. Seems to me that Tad is just another version of Ornelas, Cobb, Meserve, and the rest of them. He's just pissed because he's not in charge.
Put Tad in charge and nothing will change, he'll be corrupted by the same forces of darkness he claims to represent.
There’s room for lots of ambitious political climbers in the progressive machine, just as long as everyone is in conformity with the anti-corporate goal.
Deviation from the progressive group mind-think cannot be tolerated, of course, so any progressives showing a lick of common sense — like Greg Allen for example — instead of loyalty to the party line must and will be eliminated from the progressive fold. Solidarity is the most important thing.
Caught in the middle of political disinformation campaigns of the left and economic growth sales pitches by corporate marketers, what choice does the average Humboldt County resident have when bombarded day in and day out by ads, opinion pieces, letters, news of this protest or that, lawsuits every other day, all the information having gone through either the leftist militarization process that eliminates any facts that contradict the overriding leftist anti-corporate political agenda or through the pro-business lobby, which also can’t be trusted to provide Humboldt County citizens with accurate information that might counter their aims?
It’s called the Cold War, folks, and Humboldt County gets four more years of it. As in any war, truth is the first casualty.
I can't say I'm a big Steve Lewis supporter but this is pure gold. "Understanding is not necessary, only obedience" should be the mottos for Democracy Hypocrisy and Loco Solutions. Same goes for Larry Glass for scotching the Mainstreet forum because he didn't want a third party in the mix to get in the way of his good vs. evil dichotomy he's got going with Brian Morrissey. These people have no ethics, no shame, no concern for fairness.
Another problem with Tad (plazoid) is that he likes to sit on the sidelines and bitch. He gets to judge people according to his idiotic standards and watch everyone else work their asses of whilst he gets to bitch and be free from blame. Arcata is tired of you and the other bums telling us hard workers how to live our lives, yeah it must be nice to have no responsibilities, no kids, no house payment, no nothing but your path is not ours and you should be ashamed of yourself in regards to you trying to force everyone to be on your path! You're a facist in bums clothes Tad!
anon 9:55 government handouts +illegal immigration=Home Depot.Would we be having this conversation if there was no big box?Who knows, the Arkley's had it right the first time.It should be fully cleaned by UP and turned into a park.
Send Tad the plazoid to guantanamo!
He'll get a roof over his head and 3 meals a day.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=18859738
Maybe Tad and Harmony should run on the same ticket? In any other city Harmony would be a baglady, Who knows she may very well be one oneday.
mresquan said...
The adorni center was disputed.Richard Marks was even behind that.
Wait a second. Man that is going way back. I felt it was a poor land use issue. Mr. Adorni left money for a recreational facility for the youth of North Eureka. I felt that the center and the Library would be best located in the Cooper Gulch area. Way different subject.
Bait & Switch. Google Hartsville Inn in Warminster PA if you want one towns experience with Arkley the developer.
you don't have to - you can see what he has done here.
Given millions to waterfront development, fixed up the zoo, invested in a new building in the all but abandoned downtown Eureka...everything top-notch and built to last, not some crappy metal building with small town and small minded appalling lack of vision ugly junk that typifies this area.
Finally we have someone with a design aesthetic and the money to make it happen, who contributes rather than sucks off the public, doesn't ask for handouts, gives generously to others, and really, asks for nothing in return except to live and let live - that's what I see.
he won't see a return on any of those investments in his lifetime. But he leaves behind a legacy. He improved the area.
Very few have done that. Bob Imperiale did. I can't think of any others. Not in Eureka.
Let's get away from small minded thinking and false visionaries who want to impose their idyllic dreams upon the people who really DO something.
Alot more could be accomplished toward even those utopian dreams if we all worked together instead of this bitter divisive back-biting scorched earth crap.
Larry Glass' business might even improve.
The Arkley center is the only project he financed that is worth a crap..
the only thing I found about the heartsville inn was that Security National tore down a historic significant building after determining it was structurally unsafe. So what?
Some people consider historically significant buildings important vestiges of our shared cultural identity. Others do not.
historically significant buildings are wonderful until the fall on somebody.
remind me of the last time that happened,,,,
...surprised when Larry Glass and CREG released their "results" since in contradicted all of our results.
If there is this significant of a contradiction, how about some examples?
Morrissey, you are either a liar or you are stupid.
If your boss was interested in public input in how he was going to develop Arkleyville he would not have killed the Master Plan.
"If you're me, do you really care what the city thinks?" Arkley said. "I don't want to have an alternate plan out there because it might not be what I want." (Nov 4, 2004 North Coast Journal)
www.northcoastjournal.com/110404/cover1104.html
The people of Eureka see through you, Arkley, his joke of a newspaper, and his cronies on city council.
So here is a question-- are you going to stay in Eureka when you get fired?
If I am Arkley and I buy the proerty and I have the money to develop it properly, I do not care what a bunch of people who are trying to figure out what handout will be required to makje something happen, think. I have just saved them a lot of time and trouble. There's no need to decide which hoops the city has to jumpt through.
But if I was Arkley, I would pack up and leave this god forsaken place, where generosity results in vification of the highest order, turns people into snarling dobermans, and brings out the ugliest side of humanity..
The precious City, when given money by Harry Adorni for a park, finagled their way into doing what they wanted in he first place, a new community center. Adorni's wishes, after his death, were not honored. If they could have they would have used it on the Muni, but they couldn't quite get away with that.
Arkley chooses to give while he is alive and has some control over his wishes. He should never give the money to the city as a blanket gift, they will corrupt its purpose as surely as they did Harry Adorni's purpose, which was a park in the Old Town Area.
That, in my interpretation, is what he meant when he said, if you're me, do you care what the city thinks?
It is well established (maybe less in Humboldt Co.) by state and federal law that property owners are responsible for property cleanup. Union Pacific owns the Balloon Track. The maximum cleanup cost quoted would cost UP LESS than 1% of their projected annual NET profit. The property should be cleaned up to the maximum level for optimum usage, then properly zoned through a public process. Anything less is corrupt. CREG will hold a public forum at 6:30 this Monday at the Wharfinger on the topic "Solutions to Toxics". You are welcome.
While a total clean up sounds good, I've come to the conclusion that the cure (total clean up) would be worse than the supposed disease.
UP has complied with the rules. You can't change them in midstream to suit your biases, bit, and then waive them to suit one of your pet projects. Their profits are irrelevant in this discussion.
Bit asked: "Why is that Fred?"
Somebody, in this case UP, is going to spend a lot of money and create a big mess to clean up polluted grounds that probably aren't really all that much of a threat to anyone.
I've brought up before here that the Balloon Tract probably isn't all that much more polluted than some other properties around here, including residential areas where people worked on vehicles over the years.
The pollution supposedly seeping from the Balloon Tract- and there's no real way to assure measurements are correct, imo- can't be causing too much of a problem. The stuff's been seeping into the bay for who knows how many decades, yet the fish and clams and whatever don't seem to be suffering any ill effects. People haven't been getting sick from eating stuff out of the bay as long as I've lived up here.
The only pollution warning I recall hearing regarding the bay was oysters being contaminated with dioxins from some lumber mill (whatever became of that?).
It would seem to me all the pollution would seep out over time and the amount of pollution would decrease. Sure, a full cleanup paid for by the entity that created the mess sounds good, but that should have been done decades ago. I just don't see much reason to beat our brains out over a full cleanup this late in the game.
And if a full clean up is done, the property value soars and the chances of it being used as some the lefties want evaporates. Million dollar McMansions anyone?
Put Tad in charge! He'll save teh day! lol1
spell it out for him brian, it means you are not a liar. gotta remember the mentality you are dealing with.
Why hasn't the SNP poll results been released to the public?
Security national's side has been more than open. It's the anti-Marina Center whackos who have held closed door meetings, kicked the press out.
brian morrissey strikes me as more insightful, forthcoming and well-intentioned than any of the multitude of prior Arkley-apologists we've been subject to over the years, but in the final analysis he is just that. At some point Brian will no longer suit his masters needs and be cut loose, wondering about all those broken Arkley promises of financial security. He can opt for legal redress, but it will be against a foe who has very deep pockets and bushels of experience fending just such charges. In the end, he will join the ever-swelling ranks of former Arkley errand boys who fantasize his ultimate demise. Sad, but all too predictable.
you're good brian and I wish you well. whatever Arkley's promising you, get it in writing and have a very good attorney review it.
as for supporting the marina center, I will not. both he and union pacific have the financial resources to do a comprehensive clean up, but won't for the obvious prohibitive cost. when it's suits rob to be referred to as a businessman, he is. when it suits him to be referred to as a philanthropist, he is. he has never given anything back to our community that hasn't had strings attached. that's fine for a businessman, but not for a true philanthropist. the marina center may or may not serve eureka's greater good, but it will not be what rob is currently selling it as.
"he has never given anything back to our community that hasn't had strings attached. that's fine for a businessman, but not for a true philanthropist.".
Sorry. That's way out there, as I see it.
I see no strings attached. Gifts to the community. Under appreciated, at best.
People I know who work for SN are more than happy.
Again, I ask, where are the results of the SNP poll?
You must have rose-colored glasses, Fred, if you can't see the strings attached. It is more like puppet theater.
My little sister works for Arkley and she is scared to lose her job. I guess that's "more" than happy.
Why is she scared?
As for the Heartsville In project referred to by 12:42 pm above...This historic inn had been declared a hazard by the county in PA and was slated to be torn down by THE COUNTY'S OWN STAFF AND ENGINEERING REPORTS. Arkley stepped in and said that he would restore it. After it was so structurally unsound that nothing could be done to save it, it was torn down as required earlier by county staff. Arkley replaced the historic building with an exact replica. I don't see any bait and switch. What I see is that 12:42 wants to spread disinformation again like all the other "anti's". Google it and read about it yourself. Frankly, I would rather that community have an exact replica than nothing at all.
My friends wife works with Arkley and says that it is the best job she has had in a long time and that he treats his employees well. She says that he funds college educations for his employees kids and that he treats her with respect and kindness. I kind of think that is pretty great.
hmm, a building forced into being torn down by the county(meaning government), Arkley and his cronies get the building permits and the project to restore them.Nice to know it doesn't just happen that way here.Good thing he hates government so much.Has Security National ever made a dime without government strings attached?
you're just stretchin' it mresquan, it's really unbelievable. honest to god, can't you even imagine that there is some good being done here?
My ex worked for Rob Arkley and he said they all use to jokingly call the place INSECURITY NATIONAL because you were never allowed to feel secure in your employment. In all fairness they also had a MATCHING 401K, decent health benefits and would often though not always, on a case by case basis, pay college tuition for staff AND their dependants. He thought it was a trade off and a fair deal. He was sorry to be let go. He was sorrier when I let him go soon thereafter.
Next we'll hear that Arkley beats his dog, cheats on his wife and eats babies for breakfast. The slander against the man by the left is incredible.
4:26 wrote: "My ex worked for Rob Arkley and he said they all use to jokingly call the place INSECURITY NATIONAL...".
True story here, as I trust my source. Rob Arkley used to work for my source years ago:
He told me that Hurricane Katrina destroyed at least one of his businesses in Louisiana. His employees were thus jobless, among other things. I'm told Rob Arkley went ahead and kept all his employees on the payroll, regardless of having no work to do for the company.
My source is the only one I've heard that from, but I think his credentials are impeccable as he knows Rob Arkley quite well.
But some of you must be right: Arkley must be a real dick. You can't help but wonder what strings are attached for him to pull a stunt like that?
When I put all the hype aside, and just look realistically at what Arkley has done, there just isn't a downside.
The only conclusion is that the hatred of him stems from jealousy. But the real onslaught only came after he had a rift with Salzman. The nasty divisive politics around here always lead back to that one individual.
Slazman is a little piss ant - but 8:50 I agree - it is a jealously issue with Salzman and with Neeley and quite frankly that is why I can no longer vote for her - she makes her decisions on a personal level and NOT for whats best for all of the county - it is now special interests and her own agenda.
Here's another true story about Mr. Robin Arkley. I was a member of a Credit team that Fitch used to rate one of SN's early securitizations. We were assigned a nice conference room for the week and were well underway when Robin walked in smiling and farted, laughed and then walked out without a word. We all looked at each other briefly with a mix of horror, disbelief, disgust and incredulity and then got up and went outside to take a break a regroup. Before we left, one of our team told the receptionist and upon our return the conference room had a distinct Lysol scent. A woman on the team called New York the next morning and lodged a formal complain to her superior, and early that afternoon Robin came in a somewhat sheepishly apologized to all of us. It was a very weird incident and one that I will never forget. I don't know about him beating his dog or eating babies for breakfast, but I do know he can be exceptionally inappropriate, rude and odd.
I wouldn't know about the eating babies. I'll have to ask my secret source if he's aware of any such behaviour.
As far as beating his dog, it should be dogS. The Arkley's have three friendly black labs and Cherie can sometimes be seen walking at least one of them. I noticed a brown dog there a couple times lately. Don't know if that's their dog or they're just keeping it for a friend.
They also contribute regularly, from what I understand, to Miranda Animal Rescue.
The farting billionaire? Oh for Christ sake! How low will you go?
At least he didn't crap his pants. Maybe it's Cherie's cooking?
Maybe he did crap his pants, and that's why he abruptly left the room? Happens to the best of us.
Bit wrote: "I've always wondered why they don't support the Sequoia Humane Society.".
I don't know. Maybe they do. If not, maybe they feel Miranda Animal Rescue is money better spent, or, they'd never been asked to contribute to SHS.
If I'm Arkley, I'm building myslef a house on Mars to get away from all these dweebs.
Fingers crossed.
Even if Arkley did crap his pants, he should never have farted in front of visiting workers. Was it Richard Nixon who used to force staffers to take notes while he pinched loaves? Perhaps Arkley was inspired by this or maybe it's just a Republican thing.
I bet Cheri Arkley hasn't cooked since the Reagen administration. The source of Rob's gastrointestinal difficulties lies elsewhere. Maybe it's all in his head?
ON a related topic, is there an address where I can send my donation to the "Arkley to Mars" fund? It's won't be much, but I'd like to help out.
see, and no one even knows if this littel tidbit is true, but with the power of the internet it takes on a life of its own. really.
Arkley, Fartley
Ever been in a meeting with Larry Glass? Talk about weird.
Hey! Larry Glass is great! I hope he runs for city council. Between Ron K, Larry and Chris our local Culture of Corruption would be in some serious trouble.
No actually, the culture of corruption would be at an all time high - maybe if they added the neanderthal Gallegos it would max out in the red with corruption and stupidity.
So where was Larry the last seven years since Walmart? If he was really so concerned about the Balloon Track he sure hid it well. Seems to me his ego is completely caught up in the issue and unless he lives in a small room behind his shop, last I heard his residence was in Mad River.
ron k?
The Ron who is running for Jeff Leonards seat.
never heard of him. Ron who?
Ron Kuhnel. Plannning Commission member.
http://www.eurekareporter.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?ArticleID=11049
The T-S story was a lot better but it is over a month old.
Reagan doesn't start with K.
Who's the joke-locosolutions/Salzman going to put up?
"ON A COLD, CLEAR, BEAUTIFUL MORNING IN EARLY January, the 1908 Zanone house at 16th and G streets in Eureka teeming with activity. Inside the Queen Anne Colonial Revival-style Victorian, a video crew from the HGTV Channel 29 series, Old Homes Restored, were setting up lights for an interview with homeowner Ron Kuhnel."
Looks like an interesting guy.
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