Wednesday, October 18, 2006

Appeal To The Center?

Bonnie Neely's latest mailer certainly doesn't seem to.

We've seen on this blog that there's an awful big split along Left/ Right lines here in local politics. Still, I thought that was just because most people that have more than just a casual interest in politics will usually fall pretty much in either the Left or Right wing camps. Not everyone, just most.

Still, I was surprised to see Bonnie Neely sending out a mailing which could only be described- at least from what the paper makes it sound like- as pretty hard to the Left. It looks like she's using a slightly cooled off version of the Cobb/ Pickering commentaries we've seen of late.

I find it somewhat bothersome that someone like Neely, whom I would have assumed would be going after the independent voters, would think a hard left campaign message would appeal to Joe and Jill Sixpack. Sure, I know she feels her main constituency is the the Left and hard Left, but it seems to me the common wisdom in politics is, or used to be, to appeal to the middle of the road folks.

Does she, or her campaign staff, know something I don't? Has the Fourth District really turned so hard Left an anti- business message like the one she sent out would hit home with Joe and Jill Sixpack? I hope not.

I think it more likely this was simply something in the mind of her campaign team of Kerrigan/ Salzman. Most likely the latter. Only time will tell whether it helps or hurts her.

122 Comments:

At 1:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

there goes the union endorsements, gee Neely---just piss off all the business owners and developers who are trying to make this County a better place to live. Bonnie's idea is to just sit and wait for Bonnie to do something--her quote in the article is-- 'the County's future will be determined in the next few years".

heck, how long have we been waiting now---20 years and counting!!! so, what happens to Joe and Jill sixpack in the meantime??

 
At 1:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As John Dean points out in his recent book "Conservatives Without Conscience", the right wing has become so extreme that even he, a Goldwater Republican and White House lawyer for Nixon, feels he is now "left of center". Bonnie Neely has not moved leftward as much as the right-wing has become more and more extreme, creating a greater contrast between moderates like Neely and their own brand of authoritarian, corporate Republicanism. I highly recommend both Dean's book and Bonnie Neely.

 
At 2:10 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Well, this is crunch time. A lot of campaigns figure that they've expanded the pie about as far as it's going to go, and now have to shore up the base for turnout.

But who knows how thought out any of it is. Politics is mostly guesswork anyway.

 
At 2:56 PM, Blogger samoasoftball said...

Come on everyone. Bonnie is going for the majority of the left leaning voters, which is mostly registered Democrats. No secret.

So the last 20 years wasn't enough to do the job? Name me all the good things she has lead again? How much do those small businesses pay that used the Headwaters funds that were supposed to help the economy replace jobs that paid $40,000 and more a year?

Keep saving us from those oil rigs Bonnie! What Rethoric. I think I'll run for that position it makes me so mad.

Doh! That's right I did. Damn. How did a moderate progressive Democrat lose to her anyways? Man I must have been a rotten candidate!

Bonnie says whatever she has to to get re-elected.

 
At 3:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Politics is mostly guesswork anyway.

Scary but true.

 
At 3:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A moderate progressive Democrat in favor of oil rigs? I don't think so.

 
At 3:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"developers who are trying to make this County a better place to live."

Not everyone is on board with that statement.

 
At 3:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How much do those small businesses pay that used the Headwaters funds that were supposed to help the economy replace jobs that paid $40,000 and more a year?"

And how many of those $40,000 jobs would be left after Headwaters was clearcut and shipped out?

 
At 5:57 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

"Bonnie is going for the majority of the left leaning voters, which is mostly registered Democrats"

Richard I really think the left leaners are in the minority. What is the population of Humboldt County? 60% are registered Democrats...and how many of those are left-lefties?

I was appalled at the flyer when I received it. Its in the recycling if you want to see it or missed it. She actually said 'developers' like that's a bad word. Contractors are just people we went to school with and hang out in bars with and go to church with. Its not some communicable disease!

I was thinking of giving her some credit-that she didn't approve the flyer and her staff sent it out on their own-but if she doesn't get some kind of news release going I will lose the respect I have left for Bonnie Neely.

You know I do have some-even though I don't think she should be re-elected...I respect her knowledge and experience in government. I just think giving her an extra year of retirement to not represent the 4th District is wrong. I have invited her endlessly to participate in Eureka issues and gotten angry and yelled that she should come. I have called nicely many times before I lost patience.

Never got a return call once.

And you know what?
When Nancy Flemming was mayor-her phone in the office rang at her home. She answered the phone once when I could hear the bathtub running and she heard me out. My choice was super easy and I know you were disappointed that I didn't support you but I'd already made my decision and thinking back I can't regret it.
-Mary

 
At 6:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right On, Mary. This is how many of us are feeling about Bonnie Neely.

 
At 6:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe Bonnie just can't stand Mary. Bonnie is human after all and there is a point where you need to filter.

(sorry Mary. I don't know you.... just a perspective.)

I've called Bonnie and she's called me. Always polite and quite helpful.

Developers are a different breed than contractors.

 
At 6:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anyone who subdivides a piece of property is branded a developer, anyone who tries to create anything or prosper is branded evil by this strange new disease called "progressive"

IMHO

 
At 7:14 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

6:28 You may be dying to point out specific differences between developers and contractor's and
I apologize for my substitution of the word contractors for developers-to my mind they have a similar task.

That isn't the point though is it.

 
At 7:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:28 probably had something Bonnie wanted Mary. She already lost your vote why bother?

 
At 7:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been on the opposite side of issues with Neely more often than not, but she has always been professional, courteous, and respectful. And, though she has not always voted the way I would, she has always done so based upon evidence and procedure. I have never seen her take a vote that could be challenged as improper. Can't say the same for some other Supes.

Certainly folks don't have to agree with her, and folks don't have to vote for her, but no one should be accusing her of being ineffective or unprofessional.

 
At 8:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you all have missed my point---what happens to the sixpack couple---do they wait for years to see progress in their community, something to be happy about. yes, we all agree that this is a wonderful place to live and raise children, but---what happens when they are raised----do they just leave like so many others have and we become distant families fighting travel and hotels to just say hi. maybe we need to try something new, something that can give us hope, something that will make us proud of our community, something that will take us to the promise land, the Humboldt that we all love and charish!!! isn't it time for change???

 
At 9:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Children leave rural places everywhere. It has nothing to do with one particular supervisor or another. It is a phenomenon that happens all over, and it happens no more now than it did 20 years ago. We are no different than other places. In fact for a rural place our economy is pretty good. Look around; do you want the economy of DelNorte or Trinity Counties? If you are not proud of your community or cherish it now, a new supervisor is not going to get you that feeling.

 
At 9:59 PM, Blogger J. Alora said...

Twenty years is too long for anyone to do any job.

 
At 10:01 PM, Blogger samoasoftball said...

So as I see it: No one has said any good jobs Bonnie has brought forward in 20 years! I am still waiting for a positive job related program that pays a living wage! Traded for $40,000 jobs lost with the Headwaters fund! I am telling you they were not replaced and will not with Neely.

 
At 11:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

yeah but there still aren't any oil rigs off the coast of Humboldt County !

that's a joke

 
At 11:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The worst thing that has ever happened to Bonnie Neely was Nancy Flemming as Eureka's mayor.

 
At 11:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And what $40,000 job is Flemming going to bring you? Floor manager at Home Depot? Is she going to open up a new pulp mill?

 
At 11:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Every time samoasoftball writes more on these blogs the more grateful I am that he lost his election.

 
At 12:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

921, yes that is a gievn, so when do you say enough is enough, should we be a nobody like you say?

 
At 8:39 AM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

7:42 I voted for Bonnie Neely-Several Times. I unlike others am not blaming her for the multitude of 'problems' we face. As a rural community we have 'issues': isolation, transportation, lack of choices- which is highlighted every time we go away.

I moved to San Francisco twice for short periods and I have to say the differences were refreshing and exciting at times. I felt like a tourist every day. I laughed myself blind one night when my car was towed in SF for being 'inside' someone's driveway (by three inches). They had plenty of space! I had worked 14 hours that day and was still in front of someone's house when they came home from work. It was terribly funny all the way down to city towing with the owner of the store I managed on Geary Blvd. I had to borrow the towing fee too!

Its nearly impossible to convey in this short space-the pure joy, tears streaming down my cheeks as I returned home to Humboldt County a year later-the beautiful trees, I had missed them so much! I knew I would adjust to the slower pace and my old ways within a very short time.... I was sad to leave my Golden Gate bridge behind but happier than ever to be back in my woods on McClellan Mountain!

My mind is made up that change is good. Eureka is never going to be a big city-or a medium city.... We're just the county seat. But that's good enough reason to be open to new things, change, new opportunities.

It takes a bit of imagination to be open to ideas like positive infill. Density. We can open up some of the downtown buildings to residential use over shops if we can ease the parking restrictions or provide more parking.

The Board of Supervisors have had a long enough time to consider the issue of providing parking for their employees and opening up the possibilities of a walking community in our downtown. CREG itself has mentioned-a few times, that we need pedestrian pathways and opportunities to use the downtown and oldtown/waterfront area for car-less shopping.

There is room to work on this together but we are too busy shooting each other in the foot, not wanting to share credit for great ideas.

I know it’s a sore point for some of you-the Marina Center. But I can see how this can tie areas of the city together and stretch them out for breathing room.

The Board of Supervisors needs a change and not because I have any particular problem with Bonnie Neely, as I've said-I like her very much. But I believe Nancy Flemming will bring a new energy to the Board of Supervisors. She's a little powerhouse with a lot of good ideas and she is experienced in local government. Nancy Flemming has the ability to connect the dots.

Sometimes its hard to see the forest for the trees and it takes a fresh perspective. I think that time is now. Please vote for Nancy Flemming.

-Mary Shively Boughton

 
At 9:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mary, I agree whole-heartedly with much of what you posted up until the end.

The issues before us often get characterized as "growth or no-growth," or "Big Box or blight," but these are really false choices. The real question before us is "what kind of future would we like to see for Eureka and Humboldt County?" It is impossible to answer a question without first asking it, and yet that is essentially what the current City Council did when they scrapped the planning process for the Balloon Track.

Planning would have asked the people what they wanted to see built there, and then would have established a way to make that happen. Since the planning was not done, the community was instead given a false choice between the current proposal or nothing. Clearly, many people in the community do not like the singular choice that they have been presented, and are clamoring for more options.

Building good, healthy, vibrant, walkable communities is a vision that a lot of people share. Where there is disagreement is on the question of whether a store like Home Depot can coexist with such a vision. Many of us believe that it cannot, for reasons that have been hashed out time and time again.

The community cannot work toward a common vision if they are not invited to the table. This 'first come, first served' approach creates division and leads to protracted development battles, as we are seeing here. What the speakers at the CREG forum all spoke to was the value in a public planning process, as opposed to merely allowing the public to comment in the approval process. These are vastly different things. Examples from all over the country have shown that an inclusive planning process can get projects done faster, better, with less cost and more public buy-in.

The Truckee Railyards project is an excellent example. The Master Planning for that project was begun about the same time that the Eureka City Council voted to ditch such a process for the Balloon Track, but that project will likely break ground well before the Marina Center project is ever approved. Despite what Brian Morrissey has said, not a single dollar of public money has gone to the developer. In fact, the developer helped to fund the Master Planning process, committing to build whatever the community determined they wanted on the site. At this point, the Truckee Railyards project has no known opposition. None. That is a sign of a community that is united behind a vision, and that unity cannot be achieved without inviting people into the planning process.

Bonnie Neely clearly understands the value of participatory democracy, and the role of planning in good development. She understands that she is not elected to simply say "I like this project, therefore I'll vote for it." Rather, she is elected to listen to the people in her district and determine what kind of future they would like to see for their county. Bonnie knows that that question cannot be answered unless it has been asked.

Mary, all of what you said in the first part of your post argues strongly for supporting Bonnie Neely. If you want to have a voice in shaping Eureka's future, then I sincerely hope that you will reconsider your vote.

 
At 11:02 AM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

9:52 I have asked permission to post the email response I rec'd from Nancy Flemming this morning, as I copied my letter to her when I posted it on this blog:

Thank You Mary. It is frustrating- when I introduced the concepts to the city of Eureka in 1990, brought the experts on that subject in,(the ones who wrote the books on Smart Growth!) We were even an urban study for a class at Berkley which the City mgr. and I took part, at the time.

The Marina Center is a prime example of those proven concepts of design that remove blight, clean up a toxic brownfield and will create opportunity for light industry, housing , as well as much needed diversity in the retail market here. Plus they will add much needed parking as you pointed out. I have never been a proponent of irresponsible, rampant growth and development.

When we hired contractors for the General Plan update in the early nineties we included Jim Pepper because of his expertise in “livable, walkable cities” concepts and we wanted to be sure and use these guidelines as we updated the General Plan. He held workshops at our Adorni Center that were for the public to participate in, called Charrettes. We got so much out of those workshops, it helped us get consensus on the way we opened up the (then) isolated waterfront all the way from the Bridge to the Marina along Waterfront Drive, which we extended, and built the Marina. Well. Smart Growth is not about stopping growth, it is about making decisions that enhance our community in a positive way as growth evolves. Diversity of zoning, diversity of retail services, all these are what can enrich a community.



Nancy Flemming

P.O. Box 315

Eureka, CA 95502

My response to her email:

Nancy,

Actually, now that you mention this-I was an audience participant in the Charrettes. I remember having to run home and I loaned you a painter's easel (and never did remember to pick it up and take it home)! It was the first time I heard about 'liveable communities' and the first time I met people like Kirk Girard, Jennifer Rice...it was quite something!

-Mary

 
At 11:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They 've got you there! 9:52

 
At 12:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, not at all. Just shows that Nancy Flemming really doesn't understand 'Smart Growth,' regardless of who she may or may not ahve talked to 16 years ago. Having spoken with or worked with experts from around the state, I can tell you that there is no one who would claim that Big Box retail is compatible with 'Smart Growth.'

It is interesting, though, that she talks about the value of a public planning process, but dismisses such a process for the Balloon Track.

 
At 12:16 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

I moved to San Francisco twice for short periods and I have to say the differences were refreshing and exciting at times. I felt like a tourist every day. I laughed myself blind one night when my car was towed in SF for being 'inside' someone's driveway (by three inches). They had plenty of space!

That happened to me once too, and I found out that the owner of the driveway hadn't even called. Their system is to send tow truck drivers around town who work freelance essentially. If they find a violator, they tow and get paid.

Outside my house a lane was left open for rush hour traffic for a couple of hours starting at 7 a.m. It fit with my schedule, so I parked there the night before and I would always go out at about 5 minutes to seven to leave. Very often, there was a tow trucker waiting there for the minute hand to reach 12. They were sometimes visibly upset when I showed up, because they'd lost their opportunity for a fee that morning - all the other potential violators having been staked out by their competitors. I almost felt guilty.

 
At 12:25 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

You keep trying to reiterate your same position in many different formats and voices but you can't delete history. The whole county planning dept., RCAA, the public, all the movers and shakers including you if you lived here at the time-were invited to the public planning process 16 years ago for the Balloon Track, the whole Waterfront, the General Plan Update!

If in that whole time between then and now (16 years later as you stated), when Smart Growth and Liveable Communities were first discussed in a public meeting...no one came forth with ideas, money to purchase and develop the Ballon Track (leave out the cleanup for a second)...why is it such a burning topic to fight over now?

Answer: The developer isn't popular with factions that would like to influence a local election, put a stop to ANOTHER retailer coming into Humboldt County, many agendas in play here.

 
At 12:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry Mary. You are wrong. 16 years is a long time. Things have changed. You are just to stuck on history.

 
At 12:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is interesting, though, that she talks about the value of a public planning process, but dismisses such a process for the Balloon Track."

Same for Virginia. Continually dissing the public comment at City Council meeting preferring to poll her constituants in private. Uh, that's not a public process.

 
At 12:48 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 12:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mary - Did you attend the recent CREG forum (or any of them)?

 
At 12:51 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

12:39
"You are wrong. 16 years is a long time. Things have changed. You are just (too) stuck on history"

Why was exploring Smart Growth 16 years ago wrong? Isn't planning for future growth and asking public input important to you?

 
At 1:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Absolutely. But gauging success by something that happened 16 years ago says little. The approach to "smart growth" has changed and more importantly so has the demographic of Eureka.

If you joined AA 16 years ago but are still drinking today wouldn't you think it time to consider AA again... or another approach?

 
At 1:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you attend the CREG forum?

 
At 1:25 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

12:49
"Mary - Did you attend the recent CREG forum (or any of them)?"

No, I'm sorry I did not, which gave the presenters an uninterrupted forum to present their ideas.

I have a 'New Yorker personality' (everyone talking at once) and would have wished to interrupt with questions at every plot point. But I have enjoyed reading about it in the papers, as well as here and other blogs...

I welcome a Culinary Institute in the Eureka Inn, agree with Fred that an aquarium would have serious problems with traffic mitigation only he didn't state it that way, and heartily disagree that any comparison to Measure J is relevant now.

I worked hard for Measure J-to defeat it, wrote letters to the papers, spoke several times to the City Council about Design Review as a different argument against Wal Mart, lobbied Jack McKeller so hard that Muriel used to steer him hard starboard if she saw me coming, and made friends with a water board regulator. I was also sworn in as a temporary election worker to verify the petition for Measure J, almost forgot that.

I am not as active in the Democratic Party as I would have liked, and quite disappointed as I have posted on Richard Mark's blog that Virginia Strom Martin didn't make it into the primary.

I am not a piece of clay to be molded so I would resent anyone trying to convince me to change my very strongly convicted beliefs, yet I respect anyone's right to their own opinion.

But if you asked the question in idle curiosity and not an attempt to bait me with copies of other posts then I apologize again.

 
At 1:29 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

I may have to start drinking if I stay on the computer anymore today...

 
At 2:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, Mary. 9:52 and 12:12 here. I really appreciate your responses, in that they are thoughtful, respectful, and refreshingly free of the name-calling that many on both sides are guilty of. I do not have to agree with your conclusions to respect your opinions.

I was not a participant in the City's General Plan update, but I am very familiar with that document, as well as the Strategic Visioning Plan, the Local Coastal Program, the Humboldt Bay Management Plan, the Harbor Revitalization Plan, and numerous other documents pertaining to this site. ALL of these documents essentially diasallow building a Big Box retail store on this site. Then there's Measure J, which asked for exactly the same zoning change being asked for today. If Nancy Flemming is so proud of the work that she put into these documents, then why would she cast them aside when a developer wants to do something totally contradictory to all that she and the community worked for? To do so makes a mockery of the community's time and effort to plan for their future.

 
At 2:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is frustrating- when I introduced the concepts to the city of Eureka in 1990, brought the experts on that subject in,(the ones who wrote the books on Smart Growth!) We were even an urban study for a class at Berkley which the City mgr. and I took part, at the time"

Deal with it. Smart Growth and Liveable Communities have not changed with the demographic of Eureka. These are viable planning concepts still being touted all over the country, the globe forchrissakes.

Truckee even. 16 years ago may be ancient history to you folks-think how long its been for someone working on it, put their sweat into it, termed out and now the come back!

Check out this website:
http://www.sierraclub.org/sprawl/community/

And don't tell me theres any Sierra Club haters out there I don't want to hear that.

 
At 2:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So Mary - you had prejudged the CREG forum and therefore didn't attend?

 
At 2:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW - There was quite a lengthy Q&A.

 
At 2:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You weren't giving the lady's post much attention. "heartily disagree that any comparison to Measure J is relevant now".

As I read it she worked on Measure J to defeat it, doesn't think it has anything to do with the zoning change being requested now and as I recall from another of her posts she wanted to know where your ballot went off to. It never showed up did it?

You guys are just full of yourselves and like to hear the same thing over and over like some mantra. Don't be hypnotized. I like hearing from different people here don't monopolize.

 
At 2:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

gave the presenters an uninterrupted forum to present their ideas.

I have a 'New Yorker personality' (everyone talking at once) and would have wished to interrupt with questions at every plot point. But I have enjoyed reading about it in the papers, as well as here and other blogs...

She was giving you guys an uninterrupted presentation-don't you get it yet? Everybody is entitled to their opinion and my point made that you keep hogging the space to block her out of it. She's good writer.

 
At 2:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good for you Mary. Thanks for your input and insights.

16 years ago you didn't have people trying to use smart growth to further their corrupt agenda. That's the only difference.

Me, I'm looking forward to shopping at Home depot, I hope to be able to dine by the bay, let my kids play in that fountain, maybe have an office above it all.

 
At 2:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is my corrupt agenda?

 
At 3:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They call her ; Needle Neely........her along with , Bass , Lavallee , wolford and the rest work for the r.c.a.a. and you guessed it.............it was Needle Neely who is taking our tax dollars and giving it to junkies .

 
At 3:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They call her ; Needle Neely........her along with , Bass , Lavallee , wolford and the rest work for the r.c.a.a. and you guessed it.............it was Needle Neely who is taking our tax dollars and giving it to junkies .

 
At 5:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:39 Said:
"Sorry Mary. You are wrong. 16 years is a long time. Things have changed. You are just to stuck on history"

So 1239, is 1999 also ancient history?? You guys keep wanting to bring out the anti walmart vote, which I believe is not comparable with the current mixed use project proposal, complete with wetlands.

 
At 5:48 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Mary, you are a breath of fresh air.

 
At 5:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with Rose

 
At 5:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Er....about Mary being a breath of fresh air.

 
At 7:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The whole county planning dept., RCAA, the public, all the movers and shakers including you if you lived here at the time-were invited to the public planning process 16 years ago for the Balloon Track, the whole Waterfront, the General Plan Update!"

Mary, the outcome of that process was the recommendation to do a Master Planning study for the Balloon Track. This is echoed in every applicable planning document for the property. If this process was valuable, then why shouldn't we follow through with the recommendation?

 
At 8:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

DO NOT VOTE FOR "NEEDLE NEELY , BASS , LAVALLEE AND ALL THE OLD COUNCIL . GOTTA GET RID OF THOSE THAT GIVE MONEY TO METH USERS OR AS THEY CALL IT........SUBSTANCE ABUSERS ( TO DECIEVE YOU ) AND IT's JUST ANOTHER NAME FOR JUNKIES DESTROYING , EUREKA.............................AS , JERRY SAYS - TIME FOR A CHANGE !

 
At 8:50 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

Coming from you Rose...Thanx!!

I've spent countless hours (too many blogging the last two days, I'm sure) years now hammering away at design review, planning for growth that can be controlled and Marina Center is handed to us on a platinum platter!

Home Depot is not on the Waterfront Drive side of the development, its on the industrial side-and it still is given four sided architecture-which means it isn't a 'box'. Have you ever seen a Home Depot with windows? The Marina Center residences, offices and public spaces all face Waterfront Dr.

BTW Home depot is farther away from Humboldt Bay by about a 1,000 feet more than Costco. I think I heard you can check that at Google Earth.com

I don't understand what all the complaining is about now when the waterfront along Humboldt Bay is littered with brand new metal buildings on the Snyder property-where were the protests then? Or is that too far in the past, what, 3 years ago?

Bonnie Neely, usually pro labor, isn't supporting a project that will bring in something like 150 plumbers jobs? What is going on and why does this make sense to Greg Conner, famously pro labor not so many years ago.

There are 3 or four posters that keep slamming this blog with spam filler. Why are you spending so much time on it if you're so sure of a victory? Thing is I don't think you're sure at all.

Nancy Flemming sat on the Coastal Commission before Bonnie Neely and if she wins the election for 4th District Supervisor-she will again. But that isn't what is bothering you the most-so what is. Don't give me your tired worn out story about Measure J ad nauseum-been there and done that- before you!

Those kids walking around town to get public comment from people who don't usually attend city council meetings, have been collecting interest cards by the buckets from people who want Marina Center developed so all the incessant blogging isn't doing much good. And I was worried for a minute there.

 
At 8:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:27 Jerry I thought you did well in the debate last night considering you are up against a popular incumbant and a classy chick like Virginia Bass-don't ruin it with repetitive ramblings.

A little loaded is a good thing-stay that way bud!

 
At 10:30 PM, Blogger Rose said...

I was never involved like you Mary, but I had friends who were, and I paid attention. They always asked that the building (when it was to be big) be designed so it wasn't a big square box, and so the multidimensional facade was born, (nationwide, not just here) designed to fit into a neighborhood, they asked that it be mixed use, that there be office space above, and for designs that were people and user friendly.

I have always wondered why Eureka's waterfront continued to be such a blighted strip of derelict old buildings. Even Lazio's which was one of the neatest things going didn't really have waterfront dining. Face it, the city side of Eureka's waterfront has been ugly - for years and years and years. Derelict buildings, rebar monuments from the last attempt, abandoned because the project became too expensive even to begin.

Buildings, from the Feuerwerker Building in Arcata, to the Carson Block Building in Eureka are assets that house many businesses and endeavors over the years, even centuries.

Now, with an opportunity for something to be done that will be NICE, not a metal building, but something really NICE, will Eureka really pass it up?

Because of nasty divisive politicos like Salzman scaring the populace?

 
At 8:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nancy Flemming is not acceptable. Mrs. B, are you related to long-time City of Eureka engineer Gary Boughton?

 
At 8:50 AM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

Rose I'm not clear which building you mean. Are you talking about the Wal Mart box with the fancy front door?

The Home Depot in the Marina Center plans never looked like a box to me. Nothing the Arkleys have ever paid to design ever looked like a box.

Can you imagine the Vance Log Cabin in faded & crumbling hot pink still downtown?

To answer 8:32 mrsb are my initials: Mary Raymond Shively Boughton and yes I am related to a city of Eureka employee. We are both fond of telling people he has no control over my politics...my husband is quite neutral.

 
At 9:22 AM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 9:32 AM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

I deleted the previous comment because of a typo.

Mary, Rose, and others, you have some reading to do to understand what has happened politically, locally and nationally. Please start with Don't think of an Elephant by George Lakoff, professor of linguistics of University of Berkeley to understand what has happened to the GOP, and why it is the GOP that has moved further and further away from the center, marginalizing moderate Republicans like Christine Todd Whitman and Supervisor Bonnie Neely. Democrats have to study and get organized. A previous post (and no, it was not me) mentioned the book, Conservatives without a Conscience, by John W. Dean, also author of the national bestseller, Worse than Watergate. "Over the past two decades American Electoral Politics has been transformed by the rise of a newly energized conservative movement - a movement that is highly organized, extremely well-funded, and confidently ambitious in achieving its goals for the government and the culture. The result has been not only a radical shift in the program and the politics of the Republican Party, but a decisive change in the nature of political discourse, which has become disturbingly confrontational, vicious, and hypocritical. Demagoguery is increasingly supplanting responsible dialogue, self-righteousness is replacing conscientiousness, and the victim is democracy.”

The current Eureka City Council with the exception of Chris Kerrigan, abruptly cut-off the public comment regarding the Balloon Tract. Your supervisor candidate, Mary, is backed by the “neo-cons” that Lakoff and Dean write about. By the way, my husband, Greg Conners continues to be pro-labor. Like me, he is fighting for democracy. We wouldn't have gotten involved in this whole balloon tract mess, but the democratic process was stopped abruptly by the current Eureka City Council. As a voting member of the HCDCC I have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution has been trampled on by the “Neocons” (Just think of the President's signing statements.)The Bill of Rights has been trampled. Wake up people!

 
At 9:42 AM, Blogger Fred said...

What does the Bill of Rights and the Constitution have to do with the city council, public process and the balloon tract?

 
At 9:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rose, I remembered something else:

In my research for design review, I contacted Del Starrett. Del is the designer of the Windsor Shopping Mall where there is an 'attractive' Wal Mart. Those two words don't usually go in the same sentence, but I wanted to know why this one was different-so I tracked him down.

Side Bar-Del's parents live in Fortuna.

The design review board, comprised of 26 community members had pushed for a Mall design that would fit the neighborhood flavor and match the roof slopes. I complimented him on the design, lamented with him that Wal Mart got in there.

I was operating at the time on the voter's possibly passing that zoning change. It was most important to me at that time to preserve the appearance of waterfront developments singly and to convince the then city council they needed to put it in writing for future developers.

-Mary

 
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lavallee cut off , Droz short of the 3 minute time limit , but if he likes what you say he'll let you talk much longer . His posters say " For the People" he is such a frigging liar ! All the old regime has gotta go !

 
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lavallee cut off , Droz short of the 3 minute time limit , but if he likes what you say he'll let you talk much longer . His posters say " For the People" he is such a frigging liar ! All the old regime has gotta go !

 
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lavallee cut off , Droz short of the 3 minute time limit , but if he likes what you say he'll let you talk much longer . His posters say " For the People" he is such a frigging liar ! All the old regime has gotta go !

 
At 10:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carol Ann-I have enjoyed quite a few of your posts. Makes me think there IS a middle ground.

I hate to keep blowing my own horn because most of my study is years old on the Balloon Track-but I was actually sworn in by the city clerk THIS year to verify a petition similar to Measure J, yet it was never delivered to the City Clerk.

I can't change the past or comment on what the city council has voted on regarding the Balloon Track because I have no idea what their body of information was. We elect officials to study the issues, most of us don't have the time. Its always appropriate to lobby them before a decision is made.

I have voted for Chris Kerrigan (2X) and Peter LaVallee (once). This time around I like most everyone running for one reason or another-yet I have to vote for those who study the issues at hand.

Peter LaVallee made a mistake in my eyes, when he stated the City of Eureka needs to force UP to cleanup the Balloon Track! Not so. Peter knows very well that the State of California is in charge of setting the standard and enforcing cleanup and abatement orders. I wasn't afraid to tell Peter-personally-that he was out of line for inciting people and misleading them. He replied that was his opinion and his right to state it. I lobbied the city council and the city manager to censure the mayor-as you can tell, nothing came of it.

You are right about politics today and it may well take some studying to catch up. All’s fair in love and war seems to be the norm-yet I would like to take the high road and try to do what is right. I have to follow my conscience and respect the right for others to do the same.

-Mary

Fred-Is there something going wrong? When I try to post as blogger, nothing happens...

 
At 10:29 AM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11:03 AM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

I apologize again, for deleting the previous message, but there were several typos.

Here it is:

Mary, I appreciate your posts as well! And yes, we need to find middle ground, if not common ground. I feel Supervisor Neely stands on middle ground. Greg is co-chair with Congressman Mike Thompson of Democrats for Neely. I solidly stand up as a Democrat and support Supervisor Neely!

We have lots of material reading, DVDs at the HCDCC HQ. Please come and join us! Come to an upcoming movie night. I will be planning a movie night soon and will show musician and activist, Michael Franti's movie, I Know I'm Not Alone.

Fred, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights are the foundation of our country. Let's not forget The Mayflower Compact. (Please read Mayflower by Nathaniel Philbrick.) As you know, the Balloon Tract is located in the City of Eureka which is still in the United States. Voters need to connect the dots when it comes to issues (that are on this November's election ballot) like Eminent Domain (Do you know that the Balloon Tract was taken by eminent domain by Eel Valley Railroad?).

Where is the outrage over the death of Habeas Corpus?

My ancestors fought for the birth of this nation. And I will not stand idly.

 
At 11:05 AM, Blogger Rose said...

Carol, I have read Lakoff's ridiculous POS book. I know it is the bible for your group. There's one valid chapter, the rest is a rant against Republicans, and justification for taking money from people who work to redistribute it to those who don't.

Divisive PARTISAN BS like that is a large part of the problems we are facing.

I'm looking forward to the day when elected officials vote, not for what the party line is, not for what the party says, but recognize that once elected, they do not represent the party any longer, they represent ALL of their constituents.

 
At 11:09 AM, Blogger Rose said...

And, incidentally, it is this notion that you need to "structure the debate" instead of telling the truth that offends me so. Twisting the truth, bending it to fool the voters - I wonder how you sleep at night.

 
At 11:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look in a mirror Rose and answer that same question.

 
At 11:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look in a mirror Rose and answer that same question.

 
At 11:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look in a mirror Rose and answer that same question.

 
At 11:21 AM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

Rose, I suggest you also read the John Dean book, too. The GOP is not the same GOP it was 20 years ago. By the way, I speak the truth.

 
At 11:24 AM, Blogger Rose said...

Were you in the audience when the Republicans hosted the debate between Gallegos and Dikeman?

 
At 11:26 AM, Blogger Greg said...

Rose, you would be a good candidate to read John Dean's book. I was a Republican for twenty years, including time as an associate member of the Humboldt Co. Republican Central Commmittee and (believe it or not) was on Ronald Reagan's county election committee. The Republican Party has been coerced, co-opted and conquered by some real baddies. Of course, that is just my opinion. And tell us, just how partisan is it, for people like me and Carol to serve actively on HCDCC yet support Bonnie Neely, a Republican who very much deserves reelection?

Open your eyes. Read a few books. Get educated.

 
At 11:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whhhaat?

 
At 11:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whhhaat? Gallegos v. Dikeman? That's old news.

 
At 11:33 AM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11:38 AM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

Carol I have to agree with Rose on her statement:

"I'm looking forward to the day when elected officials vote, not for what the party line is, not for what the party says, but recognize that once elected, they do not represent the party any longer, they represent ALL of their constituents"

It's very hard for the City Council on up to the PUS to look at issues in their entirety and make the best decision--based on the greater good in the present political climate. They would have to take chances on not being endorsed by their own party for re-election. Which is the whole point. If you don't tow the party line, no more money, no more support. No more independent thinkers.

As when Peter made his (aforementioned) statement in direct conflict with facts known to him.

 
At 11:54 AM, Blogger Rose said...

I'd support a ban on any elected official attending any party functions for at least three quarters of their term. No fundraising, no caucuses... and, elected officials, especially governors and presidents would be required to stay on for at least a year after their term, to pass along information, to ensure continuity, and to foster good will between parties.

And Greg, your newly chosen party is not without its share of "baddies."

 
At 12:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"elected officials, especially governors and presidents would be required to stay on for at least a year after their term, to pass along information, to ensure continuity, and to foster good will between parties"

Just WHO would ever want to run, Rose?

 
At 12:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can we get back to why manufacturing jobs aren't ok for Eureka but ok for Arcata?

 
At 12:44 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Well, 12:07. most of them want to stay on, and, besides that, they'd be paid. It would be an honored position, and supposedly they were in it for the good of the state or the country, and would be glad to ensure that a newly elected person (Republican or Democrat) didn't come in and waste time getting up to speed without any input. The bitter divisive way we do it now is counterproductive for all of us. It might also temper the bitter divisve political campaigning if the opponents knew they would still have to work with each other.

But, hey, it's a pipe dream, just like all of CREG's "Possibilites."

 
At 12:47 PM, Blogger Rose said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 1:37 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Carol, Were you in the audience when the Republicans hosted the debate between Gallegos and Dikeman?

 
At 1:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carol and Greg - you like to post like you are so reasonable...

sigh...

it takes one who has seen you viciously turn on other life long dems to tell the world that you are frauds and that you both have done more to hurt democratic causes then anything else I can think of .....

Shame on both of you.

You ask how partisan is it for you to support Republican Bonnie....you are so partisan it is unbelievable... she is not a republican and not a dem...not by any of the standards I was raised with...

Yes - and thank you for pointing out that the US Constitution and Bill of Rights are the foundation of this country... How awfully condescending of you to point that out. And also how grateful we should be for you to also point out that the city of Eureka is in the US...wouldn't have figured that out either.

And for the "death of Habeas Corpus" what death...it is alive well and used frequently

Sigh.....

I find both of you destructive to true liberal values and elitist. Sigh... However, I still believe in your right to speak although you both do what you can to boo and hiss those that you disagree with in public. I will not ever forget your truly acidic and caustic attack of another lifelong dem (not just a recent one like you Greg)...it was and is unforgivable. I am embarrassed that you identify as being in member in the party I have been a member in all of my life.

 
At 1:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Were you Rose?

 
At 1:58 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Yes.

 
At 2:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's My Party, Too: The Battle for the Heart of the GOP and the Future of America by Christine Todd Whitman

This goes for Democrats 2.

 
At 2:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:54 is not Rose...Although I find her points very convincing and very reasonable.

 
At 2:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unfortunately Rose, Bonnie and Peter are in the same soup-to get the support they both needed for reelection they had to bend to the will of those controlling the power-and the purse strings of the HCDCC.

Have to agree with Fred that the mailer was risky. Working class folks who are the majority of registered Democrats seem a tad put off by the language of recent mailers.

It makes sense that campaign staff put that out without approval but what are the odds we will hear an apology from Bonnie Neely? Not likely.

 
At 2:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Her?

 
At 2:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Im tired of hearing about pie and sixpacks! Who eats pie and who drinks beer-where are this Joe and Jill and why are they too busy to write a letter to those papers?


IMHO

 
At 2:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Similarities between Neely and Flemming both Republican, both have served on the Coastal Commission.

Difference:
Neely has not looked talked, or squawked like a Republican in years and the main support is HCDCC/Local Solutions/Pierson

Flemming who should talk more like a Republican herself has been working for Smart Growth, Liveable Communities, controlled development especially along the waterfront for years and years.

We are not facing oil wells/drilling rigs/CalPine anymore hence no need for the henchmen and their stooge Neely.

We need a new scrappy fighter, I like Flemming. Vote for Flemming 4th District Supervisor!

Before you smart alex start in again scroll up to the top of the posts and read what she had to say.

 
At 2:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:18 As I read through the posts about your AA comment it seems like flemming is AA. We have been dormant too long. Supervisors could have done something with their 500 Million dollars by now but they didnt. Time for a change. Burp.

by Joe Sixpack

 
At 2:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Joe Sixpack is a welder.

 
At 2:56 PM, Blogger mrsb814 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 3:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I'm looking forward to the day when elected officials vote, not for what the party line is, not for what the party says, but recognize that once elected, they do not represent the party any longer, they represent ALL of their constituents."

Rose, someone only says this kind of thing when their party is not in power.

 
At 3:38 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Oh Really?

 
At 3:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

3:35 whos party is not in power-?the answer is not roses party dont try it!

 
At 4:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greg and Carol Conners and Bonnie Neely support Arnold and Bush? Oh well, you already heard that Greg supported Reagan!

 
At 4:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Neely supports Arnold-ya riiiight
Shes no Republican and now shes a crappy Democrat too-turncoat!

-Joe Sixpack

 
At 4:45 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Supervisor is a non-partisan position.
Party affiliation should not even enter into it.
You are fortunate to have two qualified people to choose from.

 
At 6:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rose, why then does the Republican Central Committee have a slate mailer out that includes Nancy Flemming but does not include Bonnie Neely - a 20 year Republican incumbent? Why would they do that?

 
At 6:53 PM, Blogger Greg said...

Yes, I supported Reagan, to my regret, as a young, dumb Republican wannabe. Arnold and Bush, come on - I left the Republican party when Newt Gingrich showed up and started pandering to Christian right-wingers. Dubya was still high and Arnold was still lifting weights for a living.

Like John Dean I have seen the Republican party morph into an evil and dangerous organization (no offense to the innocent or ignorant who still maintain Republican registration). Now I am a Howard Dean Democrat. Carol and I have simply done what Governor Dean asked us to -- we showed up. I would like to think sincere patriots can disagree about issues and candidates, but that's not the case with some.

It is far too easy to lie behind a cloak of anonymity, 4:35. The country is screwed up badly enough that we should be looking for common ground, not taking cheap potshots on a blog for the entertainment of these right-wing foamers.

Best,

Greg

 
At 8:19 PM, Blogger samoasoftball said...

Hey Greg: You and your wife are on the list for Democrats for Neely? Wow. Answered alot of questions for me. Thanks.
Richard Marks
Working Class Democrat

 
At 8:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Needle Neely has got to go ! Enough is enough . NO MORE "HELP" for criminals !!

 
At 9:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any Democrats or Republicans that don't support jobs for me and other laborers aren't getting a vote from any one I know.

 
At 9:23 AM, Blogger Fred said...

Don't all candidates basically say in one way or another they support jobs.

 
At 9:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

samoasoftball...

There you go again making me so glad you were not elected. Richard is a democrat that would bring you oil rigs and big boxes. Same kind of old school union thinking that has been tearing down the Midwest for years now, with their resistance such things as higher fuel efficiency standards. Helping to leave the U.S. car industry in the dust.

 
At 10:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old School Union thinking?? That wasn't Richard Marks posting moron!

Every single newcomer gets shot at-you'd think someone here was protecting their grow!

-Joe Sixpack

 
At 10:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It disappoints me to see Richard Marks fall off the deep end on this one. Hey Richard, did you know Barbara Shults is going around telling people that just because you support Bass, you support her as well? I'd think twice about voting for Virginia if it means giving Barbara more power to abuse.

 
At 11:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:11 You may be close to the target (no pun intended). As the neighborhoods are unaffordable, settlers have to look for affordable housing in non- traditional settings...hmmmm.
Now did anyone think that I am Richard Marks?

 
At 3:54 AM, Blogger Nick Bravo said...

Barbara....ah yes bird killer extraordinare she is. Quick! Hide your songbirds when she comes around.

 
At 9:16 PM, Blogger samoasoftball said...

9:25am Oil rigs and big boxes? What? I am an environmentlist liberal democrat! You are one sick anonymous puppy. Must swing from the right.

 
At 7:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't vote for , NEEDLE NEELY . She's another R.C.A.A. regime member .


Alex H.

 
At 3:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, Fred! What in the hell is a "Cobb/Pickering commentary?" Is that like a Bush/Bass commentary, only far more interesting and well-written? Can George W. Bush write? Can he do anything for that matter? (Other than snort large amounts of cocaine) What is Virginia Bass's qualification for mayor of Eureka/Arkleyville? She likes to accept free plane rides from the Arkleys? Well, that must be good enough for the average Republican. Of course, the average Republican is a brainless, racist moron.

 
At 12:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You got that right. Republicans are so damned racist, they burn crosses at night compulsively. And who in the hell actually voted for Virginia Bass???

 

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