Police Review Boards
Public outrage at Eureka police reaches fever pitch
So says the headline in the hard copy version of the Times- Standard for this latest story on the death of Martin Cotton. I don't see it included in the web version. I'll admit to seeing few people on any given day, but I think that headline is a bit out there.
Sure, the issue of police review boards comes under the spotlight again, but you have to wonder if it's just the same people always clamoring for police review boards that are just making more noise and getting heard after the Cotton death? I don't know of anyone outraged at the Eureka police now that wasn't critical of Eureka P.D. before this latest incident.
As for the matter of police review boards, I suppose I fall in line with some of the Eureka City Councilcritters quoted in the story and perhaps even Cheif Nielsen: I don't have a problem with the idea of civilian police review boards. The question is how much authority those boards should have?
posted by Fred Mangels @ 8:02 AM
73 comments
73 Comments:
The T-S piece is advocacy journalism. It begins with the first sentence with a way-out-there unsupported claim.
"There's a crisis going on in the Eureka Police Department, and it's one of credibility."
Says who? I mean, besides a small group of activists that hail from across the county.
Has the newspaper scientifically polled Eureka residents? Did it randomly poll passersby? Did it do anything besides parrot anti-cop activists?
Please, keep opinion out of reporting, especially out of the lede.
"Chief" Nielsen not "Cheif".
Perhaps they should look at the Berkeley Poice Review Board and see if it could be compatible for Eureka.
Oops, "police", not "poice"
Sorry, Fred.
""Chief" Nielsen not "Cheif".".
Ouch. You got me!
"There's a crisis going on in the Eureka Police Department, and it's one of credibility."
Says who?
Nielsen said it himself. He's quoted as saying:
”To rebuild that credibility and that trust is a process,” he said. “It didn't get broken overnight and it won't get fixed overnight.”
Sorry Heraldo, your quote doesn't have the chief saying there is a crisis. You're playing fast and loose with the facts.
In fact, the person saying there is a crisis is the reporter. Without attribution, we are reading the reporter's opinion. That's a "news report" that advocates a position. If there is a crisis, quote someone saying it. Don't quote the reporter saying it.
Speaking on the subject if attribution... ANONYMOUS? That made me laugh. At the very least, give yourself a stage name. (sorry, blog commenter's name)
-boy
Yes, because pure opinion in an intrinsically anonymous medium has no value.
Bot, you're late to the party. Please don't criticize what you don't understand.
If you choose to give yourself a fake screen name, that's fine. Have fun with that.
er, Bot = Boy.
I have to agree with Fred. The community is NOT enraged over the EPD. There are concerns, yes, but I think the people of Eureka are willing to give Garr a chance. But when you look at those who are quoted in the paper or speak at the different meetings it's always exactly the same people. The usual suspects.
Sorry Heraldo, your quote doesn't have the chief saying there is a crisis. You're playing fast and loose with the facts.
I was simply pointing out that Nielsen agrees they have a problem with "credibility." Whether or not it's a "crisis" is subjective.
But either way it's a problem, and Nielsen apparently knows it and wants to change it.
Nielsen's comments are interesting in light of his across-the-board defense of the EPD with respect to the shootings. He says the cops acted appropriately yet acknowledges they have a problem with credibility.
Subjective, good word Heraldo. Thank you.
Subjective. -adjective. Placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.
It is a subjective opinion piece that graces the T-S today, disguised as a news report.
Well Bill Clinton had a credibility problem, and I think after 7 years of monkey boy we now realize that the man wasnt so bad off.
I think mainstream Eureka won a victory with Nielson because he's the first chief not raised in the EPD culture, he's from outside. That really will shake things up. So give him a chance, the way he is handling this current situation is very professional and respectful of the citizens, which is way more than the prior chief ever dreamed of doing.
Nielsen has stated that the department doesn't have the credibility and trust HE believes it should. Perhaps a review borad would help to fix that. Of course, thats a new idea and small town hicks don't want any new ideas.
As far as the "same people" wanting a review board, I think you really mean its people you don't agree with. If the "same people" included Arkley or Bohn, I'm certain you'd say they relected "community" opinion.
What was really deceptive about this mornings T-S piece was the picture..
I don't think Verbena and her little Plazoid clown show are really representative of people who want some form of civilian oversight.
They seem more much interested in simply stirring up more conflict rather than offering any solutions
Lethal levels of LSD in Cotton's system
The Times-Standard
Article Launched: 08/23/2007 04:30:19 PM PDT
Martin Cotton II had a potentially lethal dose of LSD in his system when he died in custody on Aug. 9, according to a toxicology report released Thursday.
Humboldt County Coroner Frank Jager said the official cause of death will be determined by Ken Falconer, the doctor who performed Cotton's autopsy, and will probably be released next week.
But Jager said Cotton had a dose of LSD in his system that was 10 times higher than what's considered potentially toxic.
Cotton died hours after an altercation with Eureka Police Department officers in front of the Eureka Rescue Mission.
Plazoids and former plazoids make up 90% of the anti-cop crowd.
Esquan wrote,"Martin Cotton II had a potentially lethal dose of LSD in his system when he died in custody on Aug. 9,...".
That's wild. Last I heard they couldn't detect LSD in someone's body.
Not only that, but I've never heard before that there was a certain level of LSD that is fatal.
I must have been out of the loop for the last couple of decades.
5:36 wrote, "Plazoids and former plazoids make up 90% of the anti-cop crowd.".
Regardless. There's still nothing wrong, from a libertarian perspective, with being concerned about how power is used by government.
Certainly the Redwood Cop Watch folks, or whatever they're called, make that concern appear ludicrous, but this is a legitimate concern.
There shouldn't be a problem with citizens having some control over their police force. To say otherwise is approving of a Police State.
I'd suggest that there are few, from any side of the political aisle, that want that.
The question is, how do we empower the citizenry in a responsible manner?
Should a city council be enough to handle law enforcement questions, or should a citizen's committee be formed? If a committee is formed, what powers should it have?
I don't know.
200 kg to more than 1 mg/kg of human body mass. Where have you been the past 20 years Fred? I want to go there.
LSD shows up in spinal taps Fred, but "lethal" vs "toxic"? But the last I heard, LSD doesn't "kill" you, but leads you to think you can do shit that does kill you, like breathe underwater, fly, etc etc.
In light of the events that have happened in the last year lots of average taxpaying citizens have concerns about how the EPD is conducting their business.
Unfortunately, their legitimate they get drowned out by the narcissistic ideologically constipated yowlers like Kim Starr. They are the ones who get all the press
Verbena and her crew make it much easier for the apologists for unprofessional police conduct to marginalize everyone who asks the "wrong" questions.
"Where have you been the past 20 years Fred? I want to go there.".
I heard that something like 30 years ago, that LSD couldn't be detected in the human system. Maybe things have changed?
I have no idea.
6:07 wrote, "But the last I heard, LSD doesn't "kill" you, but leads you to think you can do shit that does kill you, like breathe underwater, fly, etc etc.".
Yep. I suppose it can do that, and I took quite a bit of LSD when I was a teen. Maybe that's what was the case with Mr. Cotton? I don't know.
I never lost it under LSD, but I know of at least one guy that kinda did.
Amazing as it seems to to write this Anon R. is correct.
The guy might have been so loaded that he thought he could smash his head into his cell wall pepeatedly with no ill effects
Google for "lsd" and "lethal dose." Contrary to what Fred says (and now Heraldo), lethal doses of LSD are possible, but it varies by person.
There are lethal doses to most things we injest. Remember the women in the Sacramento area that died from a water overdose after a radio contest. By the way, WHEN are you idiots in HumDope coounty going to recognize the dope problem you have. Doped up people is most of what your police deal with every day.
A report of eight patients with severe LSD intoxication resulted from the substitution of LSD for cocaine, which the patients then snorted in doses greater than 2 "lines" each. The product was analyzed and found to be 80 to 90 percent pure, thus comprising a massive ingestion (milligram amounts). On presentation 10 minutes later, five patients were comatose, three with depressed respirations requiring endotracheal intubation. Sinus tachycardia (ranging from 110 to 200 beats/minute), mydriasis, vomiting, flushing and diaphoresis were uniformly present. Four patients developed fever (highest temperature, 41C or 107F), and transient hypertension was observed in three patients. Coagulopathies was demonstrated in all patients. Recovery was rapid and complete by 12 hours, but included a stage of hyperactivity and severe visual and auditory hallucinations.
This was attributed to: Klock JC, Boerner U, Becker CE: Coma, hyperthermia, and bleeding associated with massive LSD overdose: A report of eight cases. Clin Toxicol 8:191, 1975
>No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects
>of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in
>accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides. LD50 (That's lethal dose
>in 50% of those who injest this much) determinations vary widely
>with species, begin 46 mg/kg in mice, 16.5 mg/kg in rats, 0.3 mg/kg in
>rabbits and 0.1 mg/kg in elephants. In monkeys, the LD100 is 5 mg/kg.
>Death in these animals is the result of respiratory failure, preceded
>in the rabbit by marked hyperthermia. Human data are manifestly lacking,
>and predictions of the average lethal dose for humans have ranged from
>0.2 mg/kg to more than 1 mg/kg, administered orally.
>**************
>
>So if one weighed about 80 kg, then the lethal dose would be (estimated)
>between 16mg and 80mg, or in street terms between about 50 to 250 hits
>of the strongest blotter acid you can find. [e.g ~300 ug/hit]
I can't believe it's not coke® party must have been a real blast. But a LSD OD shuts down your respiratory system, which leads to death. I guess this is another case you can OD on anything.
Anon.r wrote, "But a LSD OD shuts down your respiratory system,".
Problem is, if this death was caused by a chemical overdose of LSD, wouldn't the cause of death (as per the medical examiner) be "Asphyxia", or whatever word you use to describe lack of oxygen.
Even if he had a supposedly lethal dose, the coroner's report doesn't seem to mention corresponding physical symptoms, such as suffocation (or is it asphyxia").
I'd suggest, then, that he died of other physical causes, self- induced trauma to the head perhaps(?), and LSD was a contributing factor.
I once saw a guy on PCP gouge out one of his own eyeballs because he thought it was giving him the "evil eye". After living in the South Bay for 30 years and seeing people on PCP, just be glad we don't have that crap up here. I'll take the stoners any day.
8:23 wrote, " 50 to 250 hits
>of the strongest blotter acid you can find. [e.g ~300 ug/hit]".
I'm wondering how Cotton managed to swallow the supposed equivalent of 50 to 250 hits of LSD? Was it on purpose or accidentally? If on purpose, being homeless, hard to believe he'd want to spend what little money he had for that much LSD.
Hey, anyone remember the old T.V. show Quincy?
They had a show once where all the people on this cruise ship were getting sick and going nutso. Some of them died. Quincy, the medical examiner, looks into it and finally discovers some mold that had grown in some of the ship's food somehow. The mold was some type of ergot mold- that's what LSD is derived from.
Don't know if that could actually happen in the real world, but....
Fred, the newspaper already established the dude wasn't homeless.
The mold was some type of ergot mold- that's what LSD is derived from.
I believe that this is what caused the hallucinations of the girl accusers during the Salem Witch Trials. There is a mold that grows on rye that causes halucinations.
Fred - the coroners report is the starting point.
The body is then turned over to a doctor for an autopsy.
and there are lethal doses of LSD, just most people are not stupid enough to take such high amounts. This guy had 10 times the toxic dose and TWICE THE LETHAL DOSE. Seems to me to explain his violent behavior.
And to think...he was only out of jail 2 hours. Guess his party animal days are over.
Strange things afoot.
problem 1: LSD releases a chemical already present in the brain. Eventually this natural drug simply runs out- meaning, after so many hits- you simply dont get any 'higher'- of course a massive dose to a system unused to it could cause
physical problems- but its very questionable.
Problem 2: WHERE did this guy get this much LSD and how could he possibly have paid for that much?
Real LSD is VERY hard to find nowadays- and it certainly is not cheap!
He may have had LSD in his system, but as others have noted, testing for it is virtually impossible.
I suspect that METH -as ususal- is the culprit here.
I spent countless hour as a youth around LSD- and NEVER, ever! saw someone become violent on it!
Meth? Crack? PCP?- thats a different story.
Something aint right here.....
Problem #1 is long-term issues with LSD, not short term. It's like caffeine in that way.
Problem #2 You looking for some? Maybe he ripped off a dealer, it wouldn't take too much pure stuff, it not like he had to drink 20 gallons of the stuff.
While I'm sure you have spent a lot of your youth around LSD, it really isn't that hard to find. At the local high schools it goes for a dollar a hit. Meth is going to show something different in the blood stream.
I believe that in Humboldt County, we will have the first person to die of a pot OD. Remember, we lead the state is deaths anyway, might as well be number one in crazy ways to go.
Saying a homeless man overdosed on drugs is a quick and clean way for the cops to get away with murder.
If ya ask me, someone got tired of him and decided to take him out.
I thought he had a home?
Anon9:50 said,"Problem 2: WHERE did this guy get this much LSD and how could he possibly have paid for that much?
Real LSD is VERY hard to find nowadays- and it certainly is not cheap!"
Well since he'd only been out for 2 hours,and it takes a little while for LSD to kick in,maybe he got in while inside jail.
I wondered if maybe he'd had a bunch to sell and swallowed it, either when he was arrested or sometime before he went into the jail. Get rid of the evidence, you know? Or trying to.
It's happened before that people have tried to swallow the evidence and balloons, or whatever break open once inside the belly.
Wasn't he in jail for possession of drugs or some such?
Anon.r wrote, "I thought he had a home?".
7:01 said the same sort of thing. From what I read in the papers today, it sounded like he was on the streets but could have gone to Loleta to stay with his father should he have chosen to.
9:50 wrote, "I spent countless hour as a youth around LSD- and NEVER, ever! saw someone become violent on it!".
I did too. I did experience one guy who "flipped out" or "had a bad trip", as we used to call it back then. He never became violent but I thought he was going to.
Come to find out later, whenever that guy took LSD, he'd always flip out. Couldn't control it. Never mind that. He'd go out and take some again the next chance he'd get.
Well if this "homeless" dude had mental problems, I'm sure a healthy load of lsd didn't help.
Fred, the City Council would appoint all the members of the police review committee, so there's no way they'll go so completely out of control as some falsely claim. If they do, the Council can simply replace their membership, right? Just like the Council can replace the City Manager or any other employee or appointee.
In the late 60's, some college students took LSD knowing that it made some people sick mentally.
I was one of those who came to believe that the drug simply unmasked the mental illnesses that had previously been dormant. The drug, be it LSD, THC, PCP, or whatever, disassembled the defenses that had in many cases allowed a person to function normally, making normal functioning difficult or even impossible.
Many people have suffered the unforeseen consequences of using popular "recreational drugs."
There are pitfalls you may not have considered.
12:41 PM. It's not that easy, and that's the way Greg Allen and Christina Notbright intend it. Read the draft policy they submitted when they thought it was going to pass in Arcata. This isn't about "advisory" this is about total control.
Clever posters
The conspiracy theorists have it all figured out and nothing is going to change their minds. That...the EPD is a bunch of thugs and murderers.
But, the argument breaks down (and they know it) with the LSD finding. If there was this grand cover-up, the authorities could have easily lied that it was meth or pcp. No question mark about toxic/lethal level. Perhaps Kim Star- (struck with her own twisted celebrity)could do the chemical analysis and tox screen....oh that's right....she doesn't need facts to command the attention of the local media....just compelling sound bites.
The problem here is not with the PD, it's with the media that allows such tripe to be published or broadcast without any semblance of a minimal qualification to have an opinion.
This community does not need police review....it needs media review and accountablity.
God bless the blogs....as troubled as they may be. At least they allow oversight over the message and the messengers.
"The problem here is not with the PD, it's with the media that allows such tripe to be published or broadcast without any semblance of a minimal qualification to have an opinion.
This community does not need police review....it needs media review and accountability."
I find that idea frightening in itself.
Call a news conference on global warming Fred.
Call yourself the spokesman for the 'Citizens for Environmental Justice'
See who shows up
This community does not need police review....it needs media review and accountability."
It needs more good investigative journalists - and a climate that fosters and rewards them (I.e. decent pay and hours, as well as appreciation).
Police review can be a fine thing - but NOT when it will be stacked with agenda driven people who hate cops and see this as a way to get them.
This guy made a decision - a split-second decision - to take something that ended up costing him his life, one way or the other. It's not all that different than the kid driving down Fieldbrook hill who decided to play chicken. One nanosecond and it cost him his life - a horrible tragedy. He at least was an innocent. Mourn him! Do something for his family, volunteer for a group that helps prevent such needless death.
Cotton was no such innocent. And we're lucky he didn't take any others with him.
You are absolutely right Rose.
Individual choices and individual responsiblities define these things. I think I got Fred a little twisted on this media thing. Having been a reporter for a long time, I understand that one step over the regulatory threshhold might well be an ideological bear trap. But, to call an issue brought up by a few avowed authority haters, a 'crisis of confidence' (TS Headline- 8/23)....and yes there were a whopping 12 of them at the Council meeting, I question the media authority to have an opinion as well.....
Because they can?
The Fourth estate has far too many fifths (of cheap tequila)
And instead of the journalists going to Garr Nielson for statements,they should be going to the other officers involved and ask them some in depth questions about their involvement in the incident.
Except the officers involved would be foolish to answer questions from the media since these are highly sensitive matters that often end up in court. Saying one thing not quite right could come back to haunt them.
Well if they didn't do anything wrong then there should be no trouble,correct?
That sounds ominously like, "If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about...".
Seriously, though, esquan; You know as well as I do how people can twist words around. There's not much of a problem if a cop is being interviewed about a traffic accident that happened. It's a bit different if he's talking about a violent confrontation that's might well end up with the officer in court.
I don't blame them at all for not speaking (assuming anyone's asked). I'm not sure but their written reports might be available. For whatever they might be worth, they are used in court. Don't know how accessible they are to the media.
Nielson was there and he is speaking in regards to what he encountered.The other officers should have to abide by the same standard as him,if the media asks questions they need to be answered.The officers have their right to refuse I guess,but the media should at the very least be asking them questions as well,regardless of their response.
Nielsen was there? I missed that somehow.
Well, if so, it seems to me he never gave any specifics as to what happened. I mean REAL specifics, such as who exactly did what.
And who would be on this citizen review board? Nick Bravo? Noel Adamson? Christina albirght? Some tree hugger going by the name of Tanaka? Joe shit the ragman homeless dude. Or maybe some businesman that owns a store that sells marijuana grow lights and fertilizer.
The bottom line is the anti EPD crowd is small, but vocal. These people have the time to devote to protests and all because they don't have a job, or at least not a real job. People that own property, have jobs, pay taxes, and have kids like the EPD. The EPD is what keeps them safe from the tweakers and the loonie toon crowd. Regular everyday working people want to live their lives in peace and prosper. The EPD have not had any lethal confrontations with anyone I would consider a normal everyday working real citizen.
Could the EPD be improved? Sure it could. But there are no problems like Nole Adamson says about systematic abuse of the homeless or summary executions.
Well clearly you(12:33pm) haven't read what the citizens for police review have proposed,which is basically a copy of the Berkeley ordinance which has been in effect for many years,and in which the members of the committee are appointed by the city council.Same goes for Burbank,members are chosen by the council.
"And who would be on this citizen review board? Nick Bravo? Noel Adamson? Christina albirght? Some tree hugger going by the name of Tanaka? Joe shit the ragman homeless dude. Or maybe some businesman that owns a store that sells marijuana grow lights and fertilizer."
Certainly better choices than a bigot like you anon.
Chief Nielson is or his designated spokesperson are the only ones who should be explaining EPD policy to the Media.
In my opinion One of the most irksome and unprofessional things that some law enforcement officers chose to do in the wake of the recent shootings was to write defensive op-eds in local newspapers. If Nielson has put a kibosh to this, then good for the EPD.
I know that in my own job, I would not be allowed to just sound off about my work or the public's perception of my job in the newspaper without expressly clearing it with my supervisors.
It gave me the distinct impression that Douglas and Harpham could not control their officers
Why should the police be held to lower standards of professionalism than me?
Actually Nick is NOT anti-cop. He simply wants cops to be held to a higher standard.
Can you people stop obsessing about Nick? Yer like a bunch of giggly teenage girls gossiping about your favorite rockstar.
Wipe your chins and get lives.
"Chief Nielson is or his designated spokesperson are the only ones who should be explaining EPD policy to the Media.
In my opinion One of the most irksome and unprofessional things that some law enforcement officers chose to do in the wake of the recent shootings was to write defensive op-eds in local newspapers. If Nielson has put a kibosh to this, then good for the EPD."
A reporter going to an officer involved in a fatality and asking him poignant questions is much different than giving an officer an op-ed piece.There have been 2 occasions where Terri Liles in particular should have been put under the radar by local journalists.This would have given the public a better chance to see where he as an officer was coming from when making split second decisions,amongst other things.I normally agree with you on things,not here.Police officers themselves need to be held accountable by the media when they take actions which result in one's death.
"I know that in my own job, I would not be allowed to just sound off about my work or the public's perception of my job in the newspaper without expressly clearing it with my supervisors."
Isn't that a fascistic trait?Nothing personal against you,but something in that statement seems eerie.
"It gave me the distinct impression that Douglas and Harpham could not control their officers."
Totally agree there.And I'm glad to see that Garr is investigating some officers whom he seems as potential problems.
There is nothing fascistic about the notion that Your rights to free speech are somewhat curtailed when you are acting in a professional capcity.
Theres plenty of Supreme Court case law to back it up I'm sure.
Besides having police officers randomly popping off their mouths in the newspapers would be almost as big a problem as having them randomly popping off their guns
It is not Lile's job to speak to the media. That responsibility belongs to the Chief.
Well at least if the officer was asked a fairly complicated and in depth question,he'd be made to look like a fool if he did decide to pop off,instead of responding to the specific question at hand.Again,I'm not talking about them defending themselves in an op-ed piece.
Also,I think that you'd agree with me in saying that one of the reasons that the war in Iraq was sold so well was because journalists never questioned those involved in selling it.When death is the end result,those involved in that need to be asked questions directly.
Charles Douglas ate my baby.
mresquan, what makes you so special? What puts bread on your table? What pays your rent? You should try being a cop since you seem to know what they all should do? Why not give it a try?
This is a serious question.
Was Terry Liles ever a motorcycle cop on the EPD?
Anonymous 12:33 PM made some excellent and accurate points about the community's relations with EPD, even though his description of a homeless person was harsh.
I can't believe they're using LSD as an excuse for this guy's death.
Quotes from parties involved are less than intelligent, citing specific levels at which LSD becomes fatal. How do they know that? Such a dose has never been found...and the doses they mention as potentially being fatal have been found in experiments with people on LSD..."normal" doses of LSD.
This reeks of corruption.
The Cotton family needs to know the truth.
LSD doesn't deserve this negative publicity.
Point of fact, LSD does not cause and has never caused your brain to literally bleed. Remember, that was the cause of death.
These anti-review types are just conjecturing out of thin air as well. The Eureka City Councilors are not about to put Nick Bravo, who doesn't even support police review, on this or any other official committee.
Christina Allbright and Greg Allen and Noel Adamson do not live in Eureka. These people might be in favor of police review but they won't be capable at all of controlling how it is eventually run in Eureka. That is up to us.
By "These anti-review types" I take it you mean Eurekans.
Polly Endert is in favor of police review, is she not Eurekan enough for you?
I am just amazed that we have so many experts on LSD in our community. Who would have guessed?
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