Thursday, December 03, 2009

Read The E- Mails Yourself

Someone put up a nice web site that makes finding and reading the e-mails involved in the Climategate affair a little easier. No, there's too many of them so I'm not going to spend much time there.

Enough has already written about this, but I'll go ahead and put in my two cents worth:

If anything, this has shown a lot of people what many of us have been saying all along: Certain elements within the scientific community have been manipulating data to come to a desired conclusion and have been doing everything they can to shut down voices that disagree with those conclusions.

I suspect this sort of skullduggery goes further than just climate issues. I can't help but wonder how much of this sort of thing is taking place in the proposals for the Marine Protected Areas, or whatever they're called?
That said, the Climategate papers don't prove global warming isn't taking place- as so many Believers keep pointing out. They don't prove global cooling isn't taking place, either.

But the issue that keeps getting lost in the discussion is how much man contributes to climate change, assuming he contributes at all. When someone refers to climate change, Believers tend to think that person is referring to man- caused global warming. That is not always the case.

Many of us believe (and try to prove us wrong) that climate change has taken place throughout the millenia, is taking place, and will continue to take place to varying degrees as time goes on. Even some Believers agree with that.

I myself have gone on record here as saying man can have some local effect on weather (although I might have mistakenly referred to it as climate), but that effect is minimal, if not insignificant. Yet, by saying that, I'd be one of those the Believers would point to as supporting man- caused global warming and added to the supposed 99.9% of scientists that "believe in climate change".

Everyone on this planet owes a debt of gratitude to whoever it was that managed to get hold of the Climategate e-mails. How far those e- mails will go in helping reverse the Global Warming/ Climate Change hysteria that has taken hold of us, remains to be seen. I suspect it won't go far, at least for many Believers.

Trying to convince most Believers that man has little, if any, effect on the climate, is like to trying to convince a Christian that there is no God.

Hat tip to J.D. Tuccille for the heads up on the Climategate e-mail web site.

Addendum: One of many editorials on the issue floating around right now, this one, from the San Diego Union- Tribune, calls for serious inquiry into the situation. The Tribune folks, by their own admission, seem to have been pretty much going along with everything they've been told about Global Warming, until this development.



At 10:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred you are so full of it. Just stop already, you have no more information now than you did before these emails came out. In other words, you have no idea what you're talking about. You obviously have no experience in research or the manner in which researchers do their work.

You want to stick your head in the sand be my guest, but stop with the willful ignorance.

At 10:14 AM, Blogger Fred said...

I'd suggest you do the same.

At 3:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred, isn't nice to know that if you disagree with these folks, they consider you stupid, or full of it?

I agree with you. Climate change is natural. And these folks see it as a religion.

At 5:05 PM, Blogger Rose said...

As one guy said, this is not the smoking gun, this is a nuclear detonation exposing the incredible dishonesty behind this whole scam.

In their own words, talking about intimidating dissenting scientists, squeezing out publications who didn't go along with the program, fudging, hiding and twisting data - and why not? There's BIG money at stake.

And 90% of the people who will bash on you here, fred, are the same ones who cry about evil rich corporations and their executives - but who will not say a single word about Al Gore gorging himself at the Global Warming trough and cooking up extortionists schemes like "Carbon Credits" that would allow offenders to continue to pollute as long as they "buy" them off.

It's sick, it is hypocritical, and it is amazing that it has been allowed to go on just because it is being pushed by Democrats/Progressives who are funded by George Soros.

People should be ashamed. And scientists most particularly should put a paper bag over their heads.

At 7:47 PM, Blogger PatsyC said...

You wrote:
"It's sick, it is hypocritical, and it is amazing that it has been allowed to go on just because it is being pushed by Democrats/Progressives who are funded by George Soros.

People should be ashamed. And scientists most particularly should put a paper bag over their heads."

Indeed! "We" should be ashamed!
Because after all, "we" believe that taking out 70 - 80% of ALL rain forests,
(which supply 99% of our oxygen)
might somehow be a bad idea.

Big money? For sure! -Like paying 25k a day in 'fines', while you save 1 Million and more a day, by throwing your toxic waste in the ocean instead of treating it?

Yeah- and "we" are the ones who are sick?

Dont worry. Pretty soon perhaps your hate for your fellow citizen will overcome, and we can burn the scientists, and get back to your good old days.

At 12:19 AM, Blogger Tom Sebourn said...

Fred, from what I've read of them, many people are pointing out tricks or scientific formulas that the scientists use to compensate for areas that were urbanized or those that didn't have a steady continuous reporting period.

Now you might be a scientist, I'm not. I never got far enough in science or math to be doing scientific formulas or equations, much less, understand them. I did hear a scientist explain this about the data in some of the emails and thought it made sense.

The scientist said the original data that everyone is crying wolf about is still available at the meteorological sites where they were obtained.

If you look at the planet like an aquarium or pond, you have a fairly closed ecosystem. It can thrive, but if the filter doesn't get changed, or if polluted runoff enters the pond, things can go from good to bad quickly. There is a short window between noticing things are going bad and a massive die off.
I'm not saying I know what's making all of the ice melt on the planet, but when we ignore science, we join the flat earth society.

At 6:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I depend upon smart people like Fred for all of my complex scientific information.

At 9:19 AM, Blogger Dave said...

Both sides of this issue have merits - but it really comes down to just dealing with reality.

The polarization that this issue has created is simply an extension of Democratic and Republican ideologies clashing.

Both sides need to step back, stop calling each other names, and agree to deal with whatever obvious challenges (such as a melting Antarctica)is causing as best as we can.

It seems people are more interested in arguing about what's happening to our planet, than in actually dealing with whatever weather effects that are reported to be dangerous.

So far, everyone has an agenda (politics, money, and power)that excludes the truth from being uncovered.
Thus far, no one is advancing a positive approach to dealing with the realities around us today. And if someone or a group does fit that bill, could you please tell me who?

At 11:22 AM, Anonymous humboldt heretic said...

Dave, you are right that the issue appears to divide itself along party lines. When in doubt "follow the money".

Democrat partisans will always sign on to any program which increases government power. The warmista religion fits their agenda to a tee.

The repugs on the other hand pay lip service to "small government" and "free markets" until they attain power; then it is "democrat lite".

For every $ donated to climate "research" by ExonMobil various governments have issued hundreds of thousands in grants to warmista "scientists". Getting the government out of the scientific research industry would go a long way to ending such outrages as climategate.

And lots of luck "dealing with whatever weather effects that are reported to be dangerous".

At 10:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch this analysis and tell me you still believe Climategate is anything except BS from conservatives.

Climategate is a deliberate smear, essentially lying about the e-mails. The e-mails are completely, utterly innocent. There is no scandal. The scandal is the continued denial of reality by conservatives.

At 3:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gee, Anonymous doesn't trust Fred's careful analysis of the scientific data?


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