Saturday, February 22, 2014

Chiv And Lovelace

I generally avoid getting involved in the county General Plan Update, but I was amused at John Chiv's rather mellow slapdown of supervisor Mark Lovelace over the recent GPU back and forth.


At 7:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mellow? You're understating, right? I was wondering where he stood politically because I don't really follow his writing, but he's definitely hard right.

At 7:21 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

I consider his post there to be pretty much just mild criticism. I get the impression he leans right, but generally just tries to be friendly with all sides. Look no further than his comments on the District Attorney race. He hasn't dissed any of the candidates.

If you think he's hard right from a post like that alone, I shudder to think where you might be on the political spectrum.

At 9:05 AM, Blogger John Chiv said...

Fred thanks for the link and you are correct in your assessment. Anon it is those that lean extreme in both parties that create polarization. You will find many people would rather be libetarian or DTS but they cling to the 2 party system because of the dysfunction of money and influence that prevents a strong third party from succeeding.

At 9:43 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

I have a slightly different take on the reasons for two party dominance. I wrote about it here a year ago. It pretty much just amounts to simplicity. The abbreviated url:

At 10:17 AM, Blogger John Chiv said...

I will check it out Fred.

At 1:59 PM, Anonymous liberal jon said...


The "system" is 150 years old when the modern Republican party was born joining the Democrats who were formed in 1828. Things have changed greatly over the years, two of the most significant in my mind was that money found a home in the Republicans at the end of the 19th century (1800's) and the Democrats booted the racists from their party at great cost to their short term (about 20 years) interest.

But what do I know, I'm just one of those polarizing extremists sliming people I disagree with by using adolescent and vaguely sexist language like "hissy fits". No, wait that wasn't me.

No the "system" is not perfect, far, far from it. But it is what we have. It would be nice to dream about another system and the way we approach that is by changing the rules. California started this with Prop 14. Turns out this is probably the absolute wrong direction if this years Humboldt Co state elections are indicative of what is going to happen. Prop 14* turns out to be in practice a way of moderating the dominant party - great for the R's who are collapsing state wide and a disaster for Democracy proponents like the three of us. Fred has posted on this a while back when he mentioned Mike McGuire's canvassing in his neighborhood. This Summer and Fall we the people will not have much choice in our State Assembly and Senate. It's a shame.

I think we all agree the "system" needs reform, unfortunately the direction we are heading, at least in California, at least in regards to Prop 14.


At 8:07 PM, Blogger Rose said...

If liberal jon thinks the money is all on the Republican side he's just flat out crazy.

At 9:08 PM, Blogger John Chiv said...

Liberal jon you have taken more pot shots than anyone including your comment here and on Rose's blog or on your blog. Never to my face. Your Mea Culpa was a momentary act of civility.

Sexist is you and any Mark supporter that swept his treatment of Virginia under the rug so don't even claim to be a feminist.

Double standards don't work.

Yes, people like you with your narrow view of democrat and progressive and only your opinion is the right one polarize locally more than any party. As treasurer of the HCDCC you are not exactly anunbiased party.

Look up hissy fit. Your definition is one interpretation, I knew the sexist tactic would be used. You just love to comment and comment and comment and can never let someone else have an opinion without a retort or the last word.

Look up the actual draft and words.That would actually require you to get off the computer once in a while and listen to someone else other than the sound of your own voice.

You think you got the solutions. Then run for office instead of constantly criticizing people who put themselves out there to try and make a difference.

At 8:43 AM, Anonymous liberal jon said...

John some thoughts...

My mea culpa was because I did say what I thought directly to you as you brought your concerns to me. The time was wrong for an argument, and I was wrong to talk politics in the wake of our community tragedy that you were especially closely connect to.

So, when given the opportunity I will tell you what I think online, face-to-face, on the phone wherever. I've learned though that not everyone wants to speak politics all the time so I try to be respectful of that. Again, I wasn't respectful of that when I ran into you at the moterbike cafe, and, again, I'm very sorry for that.

If you are ever interested in a conversation, let me know. I will say ahead of time as much as you may think you are a fair minded person independent of ideology, you have as firm of policy/political philosophy as I do, as Rose does and as Fred does and we are probably going to disagree on a bunch and possible agree on a bunch too.

But one thing, I am really disappointed in your "hissy" post. It's wrong in so many ways and I'm disappointed I can't leave a comment under the post where it belongs. I don't know if I have the time to reply to it elsewhere.

Finally this "Then run for office instead of constantly criticizing people who put themselves out there to try and make a difference." I don't count it out someday. Given my life right now it would be tilting at windmills. Do you not believe people should be able to have a respectful contribution to the debate without running. We don't need more people running, we need more people voting and active in debate and the political process.

At 1:44 PM, Blogger John Chiv said...

Jon, yes I do believe we need more active people debate in the political process. And yes we each have our own philosophies.

What I have a problem with is what I daid in my post. Mark has an agenda. The letters about McKenny could be innocent observers.

But the timing of the barrage of letters makes me suspicious. I have a problem with misinformation. In the years I have lived here, that comes mostly from 1 group of people.

What I disagree with you on is only corporations and Republicans are about money. My perspective comes from seeing 1 group of people say they are for the working class or the poor yet thwart efforts by well meaning people to create any economic growth that will ease the suffering of those struggling. Not all but we have to start some where.

Jon, I want to see this place prosper and retain its natural untouched beauty. I also want to see people succeed financially. I think a balance is possible but not with the correct partisanship.

At 1:46 PM, Blogger John Chiv said...

I meant current not correct partisanship.


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