Wednesday, September 02, 2015

That Kentucky County Clerk

Some of you have probably heard of the county clerk in Kentucky that is refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples despite the Supreme Court decision essentially declaring such marriages legal. It may surprise some here that I think that clerk should be fired or otherwise removed from her position.

She is a government agent, thus required to serve all people equally as the law dictates. I appreciate her religious objections, but sometimes you shouldn't take or hold a job if it conflicts with religious or other feelings. I'd suggest she step down and let some other person take charge that has no objection to following the law.

If you want to be a police officer but have a moral objection to using force, you shouldn't have that job and the police department shouldn't even consider making accommodations for you. The same could be said of just about any other job in government or private business. If you're not comfortable with, or have conflicts with moral aspects of that job, you should get work elsewhere.

Lest anyone think that means I'm softening my stand on baking wedding cakes or photographing same sex weddings, you'd be wrong. A private business does its business as the owner feels comfortable with. If they find same sex weddings abhorrent, they shouldn't have to participate. 

Why the difference? There is a difference between a government agent and a private person or business. Government needs to treat everyone equally according to the law. Private businesses run their businesses as they see fit.

36 Comments:

At 7:52 AM, Blogger Smokey Greene said...

Religion is a belief, a fantasy, a state of mind, mind control, a lifestyle, a custom.
Is not the personal beliefs of another, equal to your own belief, even if different?

The problem is not homosexuality, the problem is religion.

 
At 7:53 AM, Blogger William Tillman said...

I agree with you hole heartedly. If you work for city, county, state or federal offices then you need to check your beliefs at the door.

 
At 8:03 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"... the problem is religion."

I might agree, at least to some extent, but there are plenty of non- religious types that object to same sex marriages.
That's at least part of the reason I wrote here before that I don't like those religious freedom laws: They don't go far enough. Freedom of choice should apply to everyone, not just religious types.

 
At 8:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to open a business and serve the public then you need to serve all the public. Equally.

We don't want to live in a country where businesses can refuse to serve someone because they are black, gay or named Fred.

 
At 8:17 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"If you want to open a business and serve the public then you need to serve all the public. Equally."

It's not for you to tell businesses what they're supposed to do, aside from choosing where you want to shop based on how they provide service and what they provide.

99.9% of all businesses want to serve everyone. They want all the business they can get. If someone has a business and decides they only want to sell certain things or cater to a certain clientele, though, that's their choice. Not yours, or it should be.

I've turned down jobs for a lot less than skin color or sexuality. I've turned down jobs because I thought the one asking for service was a flake, or simply because I didn't want to do the work. I consider that my human right.

 
At 8:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This whole issue is a joke. Being gay is natural. Hating gay people is a choice. The bible doesn't condemn gays any more than it condemns divorce or eating shellfish. The whole thing is just a WEDGE ISSUE.

Wake up, people and stop being so goddammed hung up on other peoples sex lives. Perverts are concerned about other peoples sex lives. Josh Duggar types.

 
At 8:24 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"Wake up, people and stop being so goddammed hung up on other peoples sex lives"

Agreed, except the LGBT are generally the ones rubbing other people's noses in their sex lives if only by letting everyone know about their sexuality. Then, someone objects and doesn't want to take part in a same sex wedding, they sue them.

Granted, it takes two to pick a fight, but the LGBT have taken this fight to the next level since the Supreme Court decision.

 
At 9:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rubbing peoples noses in it?

You sound like my conservative uncle who happens to be in the closet. Everytime he hears anything about gayness he goes into rants about how everyone is "shoving it down his throat!". He WISHES he had some guy shoving it down his throat. It's called projection.

"Rubbing our noses in it" and "shoving it down our throats" sounds like drama queen talk to me. Don't be that guy.

 
At 12:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So you think the government was wrong to integrate restaurants, movie theaters, and all other businesses that refused to serve Afro-Americans?

You're fine with a 'straight white male only' policy?

Man, I don't want to live in your world.

 
At 2:30 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

99.999% of businesses want business from everybody, even those evil corporations you've probably harped about. They just want the money coming in. I see very little chance that any businesses would stop accepting customers of any kind if we got rid of the Civil Rights Act altogether. And we're not doing that.

But if you owned a bakery and the KKK wanted you to bake a cake that said, "Niggers and Queers Suck", I'd respect your choice to not take on that job because you found it offensive.

Some people find same sex marriage just as offensive. They deserve the same right as you do to refuse service for something found they find objectionable.

If you just work at a business like that, it's up to the supervisor and owner, of course. If they want you to go ahead and provide service you find objectionable, you should find another job.

 
At 3:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How could people possibly be offended by gay marriage? It doesn't even affect them. I dont think that you even have a grasp on the concept of "offensive". Look it up. You can't take offense to something that doesn't involve you!!! You are acting like a total drama queen today!!!

 
At 3:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was a response to your assinine comment about people being just as offended by gay marriage as black people are offended by the N word.

Eat some lunch. Your brain isn't working well today for some reason. Low blood sugar levels?

 
At 3:30 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

And you're full of crap. A number people are uncomfortable, if not offended, by anything homo. Even more so than N words.

And if you think everybody is cool about it, then it shouldn't be a problem if the one or two that aren't refuse service, should it?

 
At 4:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then explain to me WHY a person would be offended....

Are they offended because they are jealous that they cant be gay too? Because their parents or church or friends or whoever would reject them?

 
At 4:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Homosexuals can offend you if they hit on you constantly and won't leave you alone. Homosexuals can offend people if they ignore you and you wanted attention. Homosexuals can offend you if they insult you. Homosexuals can offend you if they flash you.

You can't be offended by homosexuals on TV. You actually have to have something to do with the situation to be offended.

 
At 5:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The funniest part of this little saga is that this woman who is so concerned about traditional family values and what she thinks God wants and doesn't want is currently on her 4th marriage. While she was still married to hubby number 1 she got knocked up by the guy who later became hubby number 3. Hubby number 2 adopted the kids. Apparently you can get married and divorced as much as you want, cheat on your spouse(s), have kids outside your marriage(s), and so on, as long as all your serial / overlapping bed partners are of the opposite sex.

 
At 5:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But marriage is SACRED...

Like the bible says. Oh wait, the traditional biblical marriages included multiple wives, mothers having kids with sons, men killing their wives, men controlling their wives.

The LAST place any person who is truly interested in keeping marriages together would reference is the bible. It's a pit of filth and murder and hate. The new testament is not that way, but it touches very little on rIles and punishments.
What a joke. A wedge issue

 
At 5:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw

 
At 5:52 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"You can't be offended by homosexuals on TV."

Some are. I think it's fun. Don't tell others what they shouldn't be offended by. Ok. Don't tell them that, just respect their right to be offended based on their moral beliefs, whether you feel it's right or wrong.

 
At 5:54 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"What a joke. A wedge issue"

Maybe so, but I've been trying to find middle ground here. Regardless of that, I respect people's right to disassociate themselves from people they find offensive.

 
At 6:01 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"Homosexuals can offend you if they flash you....".

Yes, they can, but that's stereotypical bs. But that doesn't matter. Some people, perhaps many, are offended with this effort toward normalizing homosexuality. I respect their opinions, although I don't agree.

It doesn't help my position when others keep trying to shove people's sexual preferences in people's faces, as is the case here. When someone doesn't like you, or you don't like them, common sense would dictate to keep your distance from them. The LGBT agenda now seems to now be, force them to like you thru government power, with no regard for human rights. That, to me, seems insane.

 
At 6:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are talking about fake outrage based on politics. Not offending people. Again, seeing other people do things can't be offensive. You actually have to be an active participant in the matter.

If I saw two fats guys having sex on TV, I would be grossed out, not offended. The only way I could be offended is if I was jealous for not being there.

You are misunderstanding the term offensive for some reason. It's really simple

 
At 6:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 6:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 6:13 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"Then explain to me WHY a person would be offended..."

Because their feelings are based on their moral beliefs, whether good, or not. Their beliefs might well be a large part of their life view. I respect that, although I might not agree with those views.

They have the human right to dissociate themselves from those they find offensive. It wouldn't be as big an issue if the LGBT folks would respect those people's rights to live apart from them.

Those wedding cake instances. If those couples went in to buy bagels or donuts, there likely would have been no problem. Yet they wanted the bakers to essentially participate in a same sex wedding- something those bakers found offensive.

So, go somewhere else, rather than trying to force yourself on someone. As I already wrote, when someone doesn't like you, it's best to stay apart. Doing otherwise, invites hostility and perhaps violence. That's been the way throughout the millennia, and as it should be, as far as I'm concerned.Unless you can respect the other person's feelings.

 
At 6:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Duh...the point of wedge issues is that there is no middle ground! Clueless

 
At 6:15 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"the point of wedge issues is that there is no middle ground"

I have been trying to find the middle ground on this issue for some time. You haven't.

 
At 6:17 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

An irrelevant comment has been deleted.

 
At 6:18 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

Another irrelevant comment has been removed. Another militant gay comment that has no place in civil society.

 
At 6:21 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"You are talking about fake outrage based on politics."

It's not really outrage. They're simply offended by things that go against their moral beliefs. Moral beliefs can equal politics. You seem to want politics to be above people's moral beliefs.

 
At 6:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Because their feelings are based on their moral beliefs"

You have hit the nail on the head. A LACK of morals would cause someone to hate others that aren't like them. Anyone with any morals that come from Jesus loves thier neighbor. Listen to the sermon on the mount and then come to me and say that Jesus would hate gays.

 
At 6:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You mean LACK of morals. Jesus didn't preach your kind of hate

 
At 10:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But if it is her moral beliefs, then why has she not conducted her own life in compliance with real moral beliefs. The Ten Commandments says, "Thou shall not commit Adultery." As some have pointed out here, she has. So is personally violating that moral belief ok for her, but what other consenting people do is not ok. I am sorry she is just a hypocrite. Terrible messenger for her cause, and her moral beliefs are just selective. She wants to apply her own beliefs to others but other very important moral beliefs are irrelevant to her. I think she should resign. She is headed to jail, very shortly.

 
At 7:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

She is in jail now, her idiotic argument that she has a right to infringe other people's rights has failed, as it was bound to. And apparently she will be staying in jail until she either agrees to issue the licenses, or resigns. I expect it will be the latter, she's already said it's a "heaven or hell" issue for her. An $80,000 a year county job is nice, but if she sincerely believes it's lose her job or spend eternity in hell, it shouldn't be a difficult choice for her.

 
At 10:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

She is gearing up to make WAY more than 80 grand from her GoFundMe page. Come on, these religious grifters never pass up a chance to milk thier poor peers. She will never have to work an honest day in her life again after pulling off this scam.

I wish I had the guts to lie and cheat and fleece the sheep. Or maybe I don't

 
At 9:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with your article, Fred. She accepted the job & the duties her job entails.
This "religion" crap is completely political. Jesus is the answer, not judgement over others. If judgement were the answer, we'd all go to heaven, spend eternity fighting over whose judgement is better, ... but that's not why Christ came & died. He represented the last sacrificial lamb, the end of old rules & rituals. He led the path of love, healing, forgiveness, not hate. "For WHOSOEVER believe to in him shall not perish, but shall have everlasting life. For I am the way, the truth & the light." (I should copy/paste, I'm rusty, but that's the gist).
Judging is not the way.

 

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