Saturday, October 14, 2006

Oh, The Possibilities...

Nope. I didn't go to this event at the Wharfinger Building that was supposed to address other possiblities for use of the Balloon Tract. Looks like I didn't miss anything. While I'm sure Carol, Greg and the rest of the CREG bunch see it differently, I didn't see any particularly brilliant ideas brought out at the meeting.

Sure, I only know what I've read in the papers, but sounds like the ideas presented were pretty much along the line of what the Marina Center is already planned to be: Multiple use, business, retail and residences. About the only difference being, at least in the minds of the CREG folks, there'd be no Home Depot and no Arkley's involved.

I was hoping to read of at least one good alternative for an "anchor" for the tract project. No luck there, either. All I see mentioned is the same old Convention Center, or Seafood Culinary Institute types- government projects, which is all I think I've heard of since this thing started, save Marina Center. If there were any ideas the newspapers left out, I can't help but think they were government projects as well.

From the looks of the comments at Heraldo's blog, the CREG folks thought this was one of the best, most informative events ever. Funny how people can look at the same thing and come to opposite conclusions as to what they saw.

As an aside, I find this Seafood Culinary Institute idea fascinating. Not because I think it has merit. Fascinating, because seafood restaurants in Eureka have diminished through the years. What do we have now, one or two? The fishing industry seems to have been heading downhill for years, as well.

Seems like a Seafood Culinary Institute would be a losing proposition from the start.

205 Comments:

At 9:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with you about a Seafood Culinary Institute being a flop up here. Maybe a Red Lobster or an H. Salt Esq. is what we need, considering the fish-and-chips sophistication level of the Humboldt County palate. And in the markets the local fresh seafood is good, but very low on selection and high on price -- kind of disappointing. Now, the fresh fish counter at the Von's I used to shop at in the San Fernando Valley -- that was a bouillabaise, cioppino and chowder maker's dream.

 
At 9:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with you about a Seafood Culinary Institute being a flop up here. Maybe a Red Lobster or an H. Salt Esq. is what we need, considering the fish-and-chips sophistication level of the Humboldt County palate. And in the markets the local fresh seafood is good, but very low on selection and high on price -- kind of disappointing. Now, the fresh fish counter at the Von's I used to shop at in the San Fernando Valley -- that was a bouillabaise, cioppino and chowder maker's dream.

 
At 9:40 AM, Blogger Heraldo said...

Funny how people can look at the same thing and come to opposite conclusions as to what they saw.

As you point out Fred, you didn't go, so you didn't exacly "look at the same thing" as those that attended.

 
At 9:45 AM, Anonymous mresquan said...

boy Fred you can make some presumptous statements some times.You rely on the papers for info far too much.

 
At 9:47 AM, Blogger Fred said...

Point well made, although I'm hoping the local papers gave a pretty good summary of what was presented.

Hopefully, some of the other regulars here attended and will give us their impression of the goings on and information presented.

 
At 10:01 AM, Blogger Fred said...

esquan wrote (about the time I posted the above comment), "You rely on the papers for info far too much.".

Maybe so, but I'll bet people attending the event might well have had strongly differing views on how things went and what was said. That's human nature. Shows up in the papers, as well, although both the T-S and Reporter seemed to have similar accounts.

 
At 10:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And while 175 people showed up, how many were from Eureka? Getting the Arcata freeks to show up at a lefty event is easy. Even Larry Glass at the Chamber debate is now saying he will go with WHATEVER the people want. Which people? The 25,000 people who actually live in Eureka, the 15,000 voters of Eureka, or the handful of liberals who support his campaign or the likes of Pierson who is funding it. Larry has sold his soul just like any other sleezy politican wannabe, don't think otherwise. It's just he's sold it to a group that does not and will not ever represent the people who actually like and work in Eureka.

 
At 10:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Star! The somebody who made this page comprises an downright genius. I for sure esteem his shape. - bonsai trees

 
At 10:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Larry has always said that.He has criticized the developers and the council for killing the public process.Nice spinning here, good old right wing style attacks.Look for some anonymous adds soon slamming Larry on this.

 
At 11:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are Lame 10:33, truly lame. Larry Glass has sold his soul. All he cares about is keeping out ANY form of competition for his business. And he will dance to Salzman's fiddle.

 
At 11:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As someone who was in attendance at last night’s CREG presentation I found it quite interesting.

Eric Lindstrom, a former local Eurekan, who now operates an independent design studio in Grants Pass, Oregon focusing on environmental, social and economic issues, gave the middle sermon with a Powerpoint presentation.

These are his ideas for the various Balloon Tract options he would like to see incorporated in the planning process:

Aquarium
Culinary institute and restaurant
Community park
Educational research facility
Multi-family residential housing (R-4 zoning)
Medical clinic with residential units above
Wood boat building
Commercial offices
Senior housing
Plaza and the old rail turnaround
Office/service showroom
Greenbelt
Hot water aquatic rehab center
Community pool and day spa
Live/work woodwork incubator and gallery
Balloon tract wetlands trails
Coastal trail
Light rail station
Intermodal (train) hub
Waterfront hotel
Conference center

Only two minor problems with all these ideas:

First, the Balloon Tract may currently be zoned “public”, but it is privately owned.

Second, who would pay for all these wonderful ideas?

If you have a spare $10 million lying around in your checking account to purchase the Balloon Tract property and clean it up, then another $90 million to finance all these “public use projects” you’ve got my support.

Don’t forget that in addition you will have a few million dollars each year for the upkeep to pay for all these public services that are either non-profit or money losing ventures.

Considering the City of Eureka cannot even afford ducks at the duck pond and half of the kids swings sets are missing swings in our Sequoia Park, where the hell is the $100 million for these ideas going to come from?

And don’t tell me taxpayer funds, Headwaters grant (tax dollars), etc.

An FYI… Richard Salzman was at the entrance handing out brochures looking dapper in his “Extreme Makeover” dark blue suit and tie with a trim haircut and smile.

At first I thought Salzman was an employee with Security National.

 
At 11:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am waiting for somebody to say what is on my mind (and the minds of many Eureka residents) about the ballon tract, which is by the way is now called "Marina Center". If I buy your old dilapidated and toxic drug house and decide to clean it up I get to call it whatever I want but I digress.

What the hell was being done about the "gem of the waterfront" for 30+ years? Nothing! Where were Larry's stellar ideas then? Why didn't he and his screaming Arcata groupies raise the money to develop it?

The notion of dreaming about what could be there is an insulting waste of time!

CREG hires some kid to develop the project of their dreams? Never mind that he is not a licenced architect. Never mind that he has never actually built a project because he is all about dreaming and vision and nothing about reality. Never mind that the zoning would have to be changed for that project too. Never mind that someone else owns the property...incidentals.

I can picture the meetings between Larry and Chris and Richard and this Eric fella. One self congratulatory simultaneous orgasm.

Please, find a new hobby!

 
At 11:40 AM, Blogger Greg said...

All three speakers made an important point: it takes leadership from the city council if a community is to get anything better than a Big Box development on the harbor. Imagine the possibilities. Yes, it was an outstanding forum and we are happy we have been part of CREG -- but ultimately it will be up to Eureka's voters. If city leadership changes, there might be further discussion of some of Friday's possibilities. Skeptics point out the need for financial viability as if any new idea would be economically unfeasible. That all remains to be seen. I hope the community keeps the discussion going.

Best,

Greg

 
At 11:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's what's interesting about all the proposals put forth last night. There is never any dollar amount attached to their proposals or where the money will come from. Never mind the fact that similar projects that have been built in other communities are NOT financially self supporting but are a black hole, sucking in money better spent on law enforcement, fire protection, etc. Is Larry Glass willing to publically commit to that trade off? Less police and fire, more of our limited tax dollars supporting these proposed white elephants?

 
At 11:55 AM, Blogger Greg said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 11:57 AM, Blogger Greg said...

(I deleted this post earlier to correct a typo).

You may assume a bit much if you believe other uses could not bring more money to the community than a Big Box. For example, if a Balloon Track project could somehow entice tourists to stay that "extra magic day" in Eureka, the sales taxes, bed taxes, payroll taxes, taxes from related industries - all would go up, without the job suction a Big Box would create. One opinion...one possibility. And no, I do not have the numbers. A public planning process would generate that kind of information.

 
At 11:58 AM, Blogger Rose said...

The perfect place for a Culinary Institute (CIA) is the Eureka Inn. In cooperation with CR or Humboldt, it would be a destination point as well as a teaching tool that could include a complete hospitality curriculum. Modeled after one in Napa, this idea came from a guy in Arcata who admits that, like all good ideas, funding is key, and without it it is just more pie in the sky dreams. Maybe once the anti-Arkley frenzy dies down, one or two of these well intentioned people will actually follow up on a project with REAL potential for REAL economic growth.

 
At 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred, the papers didn't capture very much of the event. It was really, really inspiring, and showed what could be done if the City Council had half an imagination, and even the tiniest set of balls.

The focus of the evening was on the roles and responsibilities of both citizens and their government in planning. Cities have an obligation to engage their citizens in the planning process, because it is their community, and they will pay the costs of poor planning. Letting developers simply build whatever turns a profit for them results in serious problems, including traffic, rising crime, a depressed economy, increased housing costs, higher municipal service costs, and higher taxes.

What people want is good planning. Good planning can only happen if the people are given a real role in the planning process, not just in the approval process. Places where this has been done (virtually everywhere but here) have shown that public involvment in planning gets things done better, faster, for less cost, with less public opposition, and wih a far better result for the community. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?

The best moment of the event, which the papers didn't mention, was when Brian Morrisey tried to suggest that getting consensus on a development project is impossible, by asking "What is consensus?" Presenter Mark Gillem resoponded by saying "It's my understanding that this same zoning change was put before the voters in 1998 and they rejected it 61% to 39%. To me, that is consensus."

 
At 12:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the Balloon Tract may currently be zoned “public”, but it is privately owned.

Geez, how many times do we have to go over this, people? As the property owner, Arkley has the right to apply for a permit to build anything the property is currently zoned for. He has no 'right to build' other than that.

If Arkley wishes to build somehting other than what the property is zoned for, he must, ultimately, put it to the will of the people either through ballot or their elected representatives. We already went through the ballot approach. See the post above.

Again, Arkley does not have any 'right' to build a goddammed thing unless the public approves it either directly or indirectly. That's the way the law works, folks. Learn a thing or two.

 
At 12:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wal-Mart 1999 was NOT a mixed-use Smart Growth project that is before us today.

These are two different proposals, so please do not lump them together.

 
At 12:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could someone from CREG, Tom Peters maybe, please tell me one "real economic growth" idea?

One idea that is not taxpayer funded. Then explain where your private funding is coming from.

Please explain to me how your "real economic growth" ideas will create jobs, housing and produce net tax revenues for the City of Eureka.

To this day, I still have not heard one single positive idea based in reality, not fantasy.

 
At 12:24 PM, Blogger Fred said...

12:15 wrote, "Wal-Mart 1999 was NOT a mixed-use Smart Growth project that is before us today.".

Agreed. And I can't help but wonder how many of the people voted against Wal Mart would still do so today?

I certainly don't think most people, at least not working people, in Eureka don't want, is the uses for the Balloon Tract limited to just government projects or anything else that's going to require government subsidy.

 
At 12:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I voted no on the zoning change for Walmart. I did not vote that way so that anyone could assign another meaning to my vote. It did not mean that I hated corporations, that I never wanted to see the property developed or that I voted out all large retail. It meant that I did not want Walmart. I still don't want Walmart. I am thrilled about Marina Center. I hope that I can buy a condo there and live in such a lively place and walk the trails. I only wish that all the "pristine waterfront" could be purchased, leveled and developed into something that wasn't going to be such an eyesore to me when I am standing in Marina Center. That whole area is industrial, always has been. Look around. This is not the cliffs of the lost coast, the Big Sur beachfront. This is industrial land.

 
At 12:27 PM, Blogger Fred said...

Rose writes, "The perfect place for a Culinary Institute (CIA) is the Eureka Inn. In cooperation with CR or Humboldt, it would be a destination point as well as a teaching tool that could include a complete hospitality curriculum.".

Sorry, Rose. I don't see how that would add anything to this county but a drain on the public coffers. If seafood restaraunts are on the decline here, along with the fishing industry, how is a seafood culinary institute going to go anywhere, whether it be at the Marina Center or the Eureka Inn?

 
At 12:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred, what makes you think a seafood culinary institute would be a government project? My understanding is that this would be a private school, and that, in fact, a private proposal is waiting in the wings if a high-visibility site is made available.

 
At 12:46 PM, Blogger Fred said...

11:23 wrote, "These are his ideas for the various Balloon Tract options he would like to see incorporated in the planning process:".

Ok, let's break this down into two groups:

Culinary institute and restaurant
Community park
Multi-family residential housing (R-4 zoning)
Medical clinic with residential units above
Wood boat building
Commercial offices
Senior housing
Plaza and the old rail turnaround
Office/service showroom
Greenbelt
Balloon tract wetlands trails
Coastal trail

Seems to me the above ideas might already be incorporated in some way, shape or form into the Marina Center plan. I haven't looked all that closely at the Marina Center plans but seem to recall space for housing, business offices, the wetlands/ sanctuary deal (which I would assume would have features of a public park: places to stroll and hang around, etc.). Sure, no culinary institute, but nothing says there won't be a restaurant or two included, not that we don't have a number of restaraunts in town already.

Then we have the remaining ideas, all of which are government subsidized projects, at least by themselves. I'm surprised a "waterfront hotel" is included. Don't we already either have a few of those, or plans for one or two to be made? Seems to me that would harm hotels and motels we already have.

The woodwork incubator and "gallery", or something along that line, might be part of the Marina Center, if room is available and someone wants to carry the ball. I'll admit to not being sure how that's decided, though.

Aquarium
Culinary institute and restaurant
Educational research facility
Plaza and the old rail turnaround
Office/service showroom
Greenbelt
Hot water aquatic rehab center
Community pool and day spa
Live/work woodwork incubator and gallery
Light rail station
Intermodal (train) hub
Waterfront hotel
Conference center

Overall, looks to me like many of the ideas are already incorporated into Marina Center, save the government subsidized ones. And I don't believe it's over yet. I'm not so sure Security National knows exactly what businesses will or won't be included in the Marina Center at this point.

Could Brian shed some light on that?

 
At 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the speakers last night (Eric Lindstrom) said of the current Balloon Tract, "It's now a wasteland".

Not exactly the same "last pristine waterfront parcels left in Eureka" that I hear from the CREG people.

 
At 1:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ask yourself why CREG brought in speakers from Oregon.

They are not credible to anyone in the know. They have to seek people that are uninformed because anyone who spends any time with them sees through thier quackery very quickly.

 
At 1:01 PM, Blogger Fred said...

12:37 wrote, "My understanding is that this (seafood culinary institute) would be a private school, and that, in fact, a private proposal is waiting in the wings if a high-visibility site is made available.".

Well, then have at it. The Eureka Inn would be the perfect place for it, imo. You wouldn't see me investing money in it, though.

As an aside, I believe that beauty college, that used to be down near the Eureka Inn, went south some time ago. Wonder why? I'd be more likely to take a shot at a beauty college than a seafood culinary institute, if it was my money.

 
At 1:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:05 said: "Places where this has been done (virtually everywhere but here) have shown that public involvment in planning gets things done better, faster, for less cost, with less public opposition, and wih a far better result for the community. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?"

How is this possible when you can't even get people to volunteer on citizen advisory groups or join social and business organizations that strive for improving our town. People like Bass, Jones and Leonard have been involved with various community projects designed for the betterment of Eureka for decades. And also their families before them.
Add Wolfords community involvement to that too.

All of a sudden Arkley wants to build a project with a Big Box involved and the left come pouring out of the woodworks. Excepting Ron Kuhnel, and besides anti-war and environmental protests and perhaps the Organic Planet, where have the left wing been involved in the workings of Eureka's community. Why now all of a sudden do they seem so concerned. Why didn't they have their sleeves rolled up working along side the conservatives and convincing them of change whether socially, environmentally or economically.

This entire issue of the Balloon Track seems to me to to be more about defeating the right wing politically then it is about working together for a better Eureka. Especially when you add political spite mongers from Trinidad and Arcata into the fray.
Is it truly about Eureka's future or the future of the political left. The antagonistic stance of the radical left is wearing thin. Whatever happened to "C'mon people, smile on your brother, let's get together and love one another" That's all well and good as long as you think the same way as they do.

The CREG meeting was a political dog and pony show. Hell, you people can't even hold onto the North Country Fair, what makes you think your vision of public involvement can build a "dream" development. Shades of Flint, Michigan in the Michael Moore film, "Roger & Me".

As an aside, I don't care for the idea of Home Depot either. But rather than posting No Arkleyville stickers, has anyone thought of sitting down with Security National and discussing an alternative business idea they may be happy with? After all, Arkley did build the new Co-op for you.

 
At 1:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen 1:02

 
At 1:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Couldn't have said it any better myself 1:02 PM.

 
At 1:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because I am not going to post with my own name I will have to preface that I may be new to Fred's blog but I have been a homeowner and business owner in the city of Eureka since 1979.

I have spoken numerous times to the City Council, written quite a few letters and spent many hours studying contamination and other Balloon Track issues...well before the Arkley purchase of this property. Still no expert-I do have an opinion and a blog is as good a place as any to share it.

How many jobs will be created by an aquarium, convention center and culinary institute? I asked Monterey Bay Aquarium in case they can provide some numbers-but as I was formulating the questions I wanted to ask, I realized that the top positions probably would not come from our workforce. The people I remembered from our visit to Monterey Bay Aquarium were mostly young, working in the service sector-gift shop, restaurant, tour guides...probably not paid more than $8-9 an hour with seniority.

A Convention Center could be scheduled and administered by Susan Hutchinson at the City of Eureka as she is already doing this scheduling of the Wharfinger Building. No net gain in jobs there. Do we need a Convention Center? Yes! It would be nice to have a place big enough for meetings, gatherings of people larger than the Wharfinger Bldg. can handle and Eureka is the county seat-its embarrassing to have to move meetings (if the space is available) to the River Lodge in Fortuna.

Culinary Institute. Not many jobs there either. Why not ask HSU or College of the Redwoods to do this? And by the way, public buildings do not pay into the property taxes our city services depend on to staff the fire dept and police dept which have already suffered all the budget cuts they possibly can. Its time to rebuild the budget surplus and bring staffing levels back up.

How?

By bringing new business in, having the increase in sales tax. Some have noted that Humboldt County shoppers are spending money out of town at other Home Depots. I am a minor one of those-for convenience sake I shop at Pierson’s and Shafer’s Hardware. But when I recently bought boards at Pierson’s I was well aware that those 2X4s were 30% less at Home Depot where I purchased lumber just last month for an out of town project.

I have been inside the Discovery Museum on a sunny afternoon and its horribly hot and uncomfortable. It needs to move. I have seen the facility for Lost Coast Brewery’s beer making and they could certainly use an expansion and a new location away from the public dining facility. I remember that Lost Coast had plans of their own to locate a restaurant on the waterfront in Eureka. It would have been nice to eat fish and chips right on the waterfront while watching the boats go by-you can’t do that at Waterfront Café with all the buildings in the way. Can’t do that at the new Go Fish or Café Marina even. Oh well. A couple of calls to the Coastal Commission stopped Lost Coast Brewery in their tracks. What is wrong with successful local businesses finding new homes, so they can grow and prosper? A Fish Restaurant has every right to call itself water dependant/water related business.
On the one hand last night, we had the developer John Zentner stating community involvement in the process was key to breaking the typical development mold most cities use. At this same meeting, Larry Glass was saying that we need to get on board with the rest of the world here...in how we do public process. Which is it?

 
At 2:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this---The Beauty College, Frederick and Charles, is alive and well! They took the day off (sign in the window) to particiapte in the 'Veteran's Stand Down'.

 
At 2:25 PM, Blogger Fred said...

Hmmm...maybe it was something else, or some part of Frederick and Charles. The wife went through their manicurist school years ago. I thought it was her that said something about them shutting down. Maybe she was talking about the manicure school part of it? I'll try and remember and ask.

 
At 2:28 PM, Blogger Fred said...

1:56 wrote, "Do we need a Convention Center?".

Well, depends on what kind. I know I've heard a lot of proposals for BIG convention centers, the kind that can hold mega groups of people.

I've always maintained that it would never be worth it having a big, big one in Humboldt because there would be few people that would want to come this far to use it.

Even big cities with the mega convention centers generally have to subsidize them.

A smaller one? Whatever. Don't know if it would be worth the cost, and as you say, no real big job generator with a small one.

 
At 2:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nope-whole thing is intact at the moment. Beside the point though. We are saturated with manicurists and hair stylists and F&C probably will have a drop in something sometime.

This area needs skilled semi skilled laborors put back to work or employed parttime when their primary industry ie timber, fishing shuts down. We have a few degree people also looking for work and they shouldn't have to take min wage jobs because its the only thing available.

An industrial incubator has its pluses and minuses we should be discussing those adn not nit picking the small details.

 
At 2:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Convention Centers may have some economic benefit for the users of the building, but the Convention Center itself doesn't create jobs. Caterers are hired, DJ and bands, equipment is rented etc all good for the local economy.

Meetings must be scaled down to fit the capacity of the meeting place 220 at Wharfinger, or 160 seated I think, the Adorni is a little bigger. A 500 capacity building isn't out of line for a County this size-Fortuna's River Lodge holds that easily and it is booked solid through next year.

 
At 2:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'll get back to you-have to do my own Culinary Institute here with my wife. Applesauce today!

 
At 3:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's not get too hung up on the "you" label.

I believe the new Co-Op is for the entire community, not just "you" (whoever "you" is/are).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Arkley's donate to District Attorney Paul Gallegos' campaign, St. Bernard's, Eureka High School pool, Sequoia Zoo, Eureka Waterfront, plus a whole lot of other charities in and around Eureka too numerous to mention.

It seems to me we love to Arkley’s when they donate to Eureka charities, but hate the Arkley’s when they donate to political causes around the country.

 
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At 4:16 PM, Blogger Rose said...

I agree Fred. If it were to be done, I would not limit it to a Seafood Culinary Institute. The guy who told me about his idea was thinking of modeling it after something in St. Helena, I believe.

The Eureka Inn is the perfect place (as opposed to the Industrial Park) BUT It is a very expansive rehab. Like Marina center, it is just pie in the sky "oh, the possibilities" without someone willing to pay for it.

If operated under the auspices of CR or HSU - Potential courses of study could include:
Training In The Culinary Arts
Food, Beverage, and Restaurant Management
General and Strategic Management
Human Resource Management
Financial Management
Marketing
Operations Management and Information Technology
Property-Asset Management and Real Estate
Rooms Management
And - perhaps the College of The Redwoods Construction Technology could facilitate the restoration work needed on the INN.

It is sad to see it sit vacant - and it is a loss to the community the way it is.

 
At 4:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

larry has always said that if the entire community wants a home depot he would not stand in the way of that though he would not shop there....i dont see how he has flip floped

 
At 5:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your right about the dog and pony show. It certainly gave Larry Glass a platform to play "Council Member". Wow 175 people clapping for him...probably keept him awake all night.

As for the great ideas...never did know of one that gerated jobs, and made the enviroment clean with out private money doing the work...ideas are just that ideas...

 
At 7:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Glass would just play a better game of "businessman" he might not have to worry about Best Buy.

 
At 7:24 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

If Wolford would've just played a better game of"councilmember"she might not have to worry about Larry Glass.

 
At 8:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was pretty sure I wouldn’t like Larry Glass. But he stopped by today on the campaign trail and I was surprised to be wavering at this point of how to vote-Larry vs Mary Beth.

But I must say, Larry listens well and doesn't shy away from confrontation. We asked what he planned to do to increase police and fire protection? He said he will increase the budget to 90% whatever it takes to restore safe levels!

My husband asked if Larry knew what percentage of the city budget was already being spent on public safety? He said he didn’t know and stated the document is so large he hasn’t taken the time to wade through it yet. But that was an honest answer. He didn’t try to fake his way through the conversation and he was open to new information.

I have supported Mary Beth in the past but am sometimes disappointed in that she shies away from confrontation and sometimes I’d like to see her take a firm stand.

I had to bring up something that has been bothering me: Local Solutions seems to support candidates willing to bring up issues in areas outside their ability to make a difference. Antiwar resolutions and same sex marriage are good things to try and influence if you feel strongly, but our local issues suffer at the expense of these time wasting discussions in City Council meetings.

I told Larry this is just the reason Peter LaVallee lost my vote!

The City of Eureka has no authority over the Balloon Track cleanup and Peter knew this when he stated otherwise. Peter said the City of Eureka should ‘force’ Union Pacific to clean it up when he knew very well that our city has no power over the State of California which does set the requirements and enforce the cleanup. He also knows there is a public process in place for us to state our wishes for a full cleanup.

Larry seems to know what’s up, his only detriment being accepting the endorsement of Local Solutions. He said he will accept the will of the voters but he also said this may be out of our hands so he actually has been listening to all the SN presentations. This doesn’t mean he is changing sides or flip flopping by any means-he is able to face facts. It just may be enough to get those votes in. He might even have mine and that’s a hard sell!

 
At 8:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:06 Balloon Track/Marina Center Hugger and PROUD ofit!

 
At 8:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Make that a bumper sticker and i'll put one on my car

 
At 9:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can stop by Security National and get a bumper sticker that says: Marina Center for a better community.

Say it loud, say it proud!

 
At 9:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obviously Larry very much wants this job. May Beth better get out there and find out how people feel or Larry's going to win this going away.

 
At 9:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Larry has pissed off so many people with his lousy business practices that I can't believe he has the possiblity of unseating a diplomatic, thoughtful and intellegent candidate like Mary Beth.

Sure, he has the support of all his CREG friends and Richard Salzman sure is effective at gathering the support of the young, uninformed and disenfranchised but to take the lead would make me lose faith in the public's ability to see a crack "pot" when they see one.

 
At 10:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm still waiting for a CREG spokesperson to post using their name and explain to all of us how CREG promotes "Real Economic Growth" versus "Real Eureka Gripe”.

 
At 10:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, help me to remember why there was no outcry on capping the toxic laden land that Big Box Costco sits on? Within one block of the bay and wetlands no less? And what about the Dioxin laden land ajacent to the same store that leeches for decades into the bay? Where are these protesters?

And a big box Target right next to the bay? Nobody protests?

Then Bill Pierson sees a threat to his business and he pumps in a bunch (Almost $50,000) of money to local candidates to protest the Marina Center project under the guise of "progressive vision." And those same "CREG" candidates campaign stump against contributions that are not showing for the candidates they are attacking as "Arkley Candidates?"

And then these same CREG people saying the public process is/has being undermined even though SN has held many open public forums and CREG has been meeting behind closed doors, besides their media manipulations such as yesterday, since the Marina Center was first proposed.

What am I missing here? Sounds like young "progressives" are being force feed BS from their elder liberal peers. WOW!

 
At 11:32 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

I like the aquarium idea. And the seafood culinary idea.

 
At 11:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fork over the billions it will take to build the aquarium, Eric, and I'll support you,

Harry Adorni left the City of Eureka with several million with express instructions to build a park in the Old Town area. The City didn't. They didn't want a park because they couldn't even deal with the crime that came with having some benches installed in the Old Town area. They had to rip the benches out. Do all you CREG-ers understand what that means? How stupid you sound in light of that simple reality?

The City wanted a "convention center" then - and they got what they wanted, in a way. They built the Adorni Center with Harry Adorni's money. No park.

Moral of the story? If you want to give something to the City of Eureka, do it while you are alive and can have some control over what gets built with your money. Public process is there to screw you.

Better get to work and earn the money for all those glorious projects you all have in mind. Quit asking someone else to pay for them. And pay some modicum of respect to the person who IS puttin his money where his mouth is.

 
At 12:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What makes folks think that the Marina Center proposal would create jobs? I know that Security National has said this, but where is the evidence? Why don't people want to see some compelling data that backs up these wild claims?

On the surface, it appears that the project will proide empty spaces, but not actual jobs. It seems unlikely that new businesses will be created just because there is a building to house them. If that were the case, there would be no empty offices or storefronts in Eureka. More likely the businesses that occupy those spaces will come from other places in town, leaving behind other emptly spaces.

Then there is the Home Depot. The City of Eureka already did a study that found that a Home Depot would be bad for jobs, local businesses and the economy. Even the Eureka Chamber of Commerce has said that a Home Depot would likely result in a net loss of jobs.

Again, where is there any evidence that the Marina Center project would actually create jobs?

 
At 4:39 AM, Blogger Uncle Enore said...

Kind of interesting to see you folks get all involved in your community.

Being a burn out I have long since realized that getting involved in any government anything is a waste of time.

Still, it's nice to see you guys all interested yet.

 
At 8:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wrong again!

"The City of Eureka already did a study that found that a Home Depot would be bad for jobs, local businesses and the economy. Even the Eureka Chamber of Commerce has said that a Home Depot would likely result in a net loss of jobs."

Unfortunately Anonymous 12:06 AM you pick and choose only a few select facts.

I too have a copy of the 1999 Bay Area Economics (BAE) study here in front of me. This August 11, 1999 85-page report states is that if local businesses adapt and compete, many will not only survive, but also thrive. And yes a few will perish. But that is life. I'm not in favor of protectionism, are you?

Sadly a first year MBA student could produce a better report today. There were so many glaring financial projection errors in this report (0% sales growth for seven years?), not too mention the constant flip-flop of projections.

Let’s review page 51, paragraph 4 quotes from Ukiah’s Finance Director and Associate Planner, “If anything, Friedman’s (Freidman Brothers, a regional home-improvement chain) has “made (the smaller stores) more competitive” and many have “thrived”.

Wow, just think if Pierson's Building Supply had to actually compete and made MORE profit than today.

And again on page 52, paragraph 2, “Chico has not seen significant changes as a result of Wal-Mart’s arrival in March 1994.”

Continued on page 52, paragraph 3, “Wal-Mart has made little or no impact to Downtown Chico.”

The most telling story was found on page 4, Table 2, where it estimates the 1998 Eureka Household Income Distribution with 29% of the households earning less than $15,000 annually and 20% of the households earning $15,000-$24,999 annually.

Simple math: that’s 49% of our average Eureka household earning less than $25,000 per year. Almost half our households barely above the poverty line!

The median income for the state of California is $49,600. Here is Eureka we make almost 50% less.

So why are Chris Kerrigan, Peter LaVallee Bonnie Neely and the rest of the "slate" against Home Depot? Follow the 460s (financial disclosure forms) and the financial contributions from Bill Pierson, Bill and Elizabeth Pierson, Elizabeth Hardwood (her maiden name -- a FPCC no-no), Pierson Building Supply (including non-cash gift certificates) and Sedgefield Properties.

Are they “bought and paid for”?

Does Kerrigan have another Pierson cap I can borrow when I get my picture in the Times-Standard?

Let's close with other small near-by cities like Redding, Chico and Ukiah (and now Crescent City) that all have a Home Depot (and most a Wal-Mart too). The local businesses in these cities are not only competing, they are thriving.

Why can't Eureka do the same?

 
At 9:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A Culinary Institute in the Eureka Inn sounds a lot better than leaving it vacant with its pretty paint job. I will miss the Christmases though.

What kind of Redevelopment funds are available to help with the restoration?

 
At 9:28 AM, Anonymous John Q. Public said...

8:43 ...my guess is it is Richard S.

Get a spine man! No matter who you are, if you are so informed then stand up for what you believe in and don't hide behind anonymous.

Yes, you notice that I am using a pen name but I am not a paid political consultant.

If Bill Pierson weren't such a coward he would stand up and say what he feels about H.D. openly. If he were really smart he would say..."We at Pierson's welcome Home Depot. We feel strongly that we offer our community a great place to shop and we specialize in home town customer service". Because he didn't say that or anything else that is honest and forthright he has lost my business forever. Because he spent nearly 50k supporting less than mediochre candidates that he expects to do his bidding he has lost my business forever. I will now shop at Ace hardware in Henderson Center, The Mill Yard, Myrtle Town Lumber but I will never give another dime to Piersons, Home Depot or no Home Depot.

 
At 9:43 AM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

As a kid I attended the New England Aquarium in Boston many times. There were many different funders for this project. Funding came from many sources: some public funding through grants, but also many wealthy individuals, and corporations. Why not have a foundation to raise money? Why do we have to rely on only one developer's funding? Let's be creative. "Imagine the Possibilities" sponsored by CREG was a forum to present ideas. Let's not be closed to one another's ideas. I like seeing this discussion here on Fred's Blog. It is refreshing to have civil discourse.

 
At 10:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why don't you support Humboldt Botanical Gardens Foundation, Carol. There's a group that is putting their money, time and effort where their mouth is. It has been a long and grueling process, with a samll group of dedicated volunteers. It's real. Imagine the possibilities. Help something that IS being done.

 
At 10:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:43 is not Richard S.

 
At 10:37 AM, Blogger Matthew Owen said...

Long Beach Aquarium was built 1988 at a cost of $117MM
http://www.beachcalifornia.com/aquarium.html

Monterey Bay Aquarium was built 1984 at a cost of $55MM
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/aa/timelineBrowser.asp?tf=19

Both lose money each year and require huge subsidies to maintain operations.

Who's going to pay for this new aquarium (that with parking would take up the entire Balloon Tract)?

Let’s work together and remember that left-wing and right-wing are parts of an airplane.

 
At 11:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NO to the aquarium idea even if it was financially feasible. Remember Crescent City's Aquarium-cold foggy places are not for aquariums. Warm places like southern California where they have long lines of people waiting to get in-still losing money?? We need jobs.

150 jobs at $12-26 an hour is better at Home Depot. Pierson's will recover from the 'devastation' soon enough to keep ripping off their loyal followers. Its a disgrace though to charge people who make so little-so much.

 
At 11:04 AM, Anonymous mresquan said...

We need jobs,that's just one reason we certainly don't need any bit of Home Depot here.We need jobs.

 
At 11:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I attended the forum Friday night, the first of theirs that I have attended, and was energized and inspired by the visions and possibilities. I'm disappointed by the number of people who feel free to criticize what they didn't see and/or don't understand. And, no, I am not a member of CREG.

I am not saying that any one plan was ready to go, or perfect in its entirety. This was not about a definitive answer to our situation, which has been worsened by the actions of our council, but about the methods other communities have used in dealing with similar properties, and the options available to us. Some people are so determined to find fault they put the cart before the horse in their criticisms. Financial feasibility is an important consideration, but not the first and only one. Besides, it looks like this isn't going to make Rob money, just allow him to score one off his old high school nemesis, Bill, while building to suit his limited vision. Perhaps Bass, Wolford, Leoanrd and Jones are too busy scarfing up canapes at the Arkley parties to pay attention to what the city needs and real leadership requires.

The speaker from the University of Oregon, a school more highly respected around the country than HSU, I might note, made many irrefutable points. Too bad Fred, Rich Somerville, and others writing on the event, weren't there to see it. His discussion of civitas is one that would benefit all of us, here in Humboldt County and around the country, now more than ever.

At this point, it is up to us, the voters of Eureka, to educate ourselves on what our options are and whether or not we can trust the incumbents or the challengers to represent our best interests.

To those who complaint that nobody did anything before this: you're right! I live in Eureka, and have for a decade now. Where has our council been??? They should have, and could have, cleaned that property up and put a lien on it long ago. Or they could have accepted the Arkley's generous offer, made some years ago, to donate money to hte city for its purchase. We could have been half-way to cleaned up by now. They also should and could have started and completed a Master Plan process to find out what the community supports. These are actually good reasons to vote for the challengers.

The incumbents and their like-minded supporters have been running this little city for decades and don't have much of substance to take credit for. The revitalization of Old Town, for which Nancy can take some credit, will be promptly reversed if the Marina Center is built as planned, so scratch that achievement. They'll have paved over the last big section of empty land on the waterfront, which could be a piece of paradise, in order to build a parking lot (remember Joni MItchell's song?).

So I ask again: Where have they been? And for whom are they really working?

 
At 11:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And why do those local control advocates always turn to out-of-the-area experts to support their positions? Someone who knows nothing about this area, a hired gun to come in and inspire you with empty pipe dreams.

The idea of an office with a waterfront view appeals to me, and I'll be in line for one of those.

Can't have a building supply place right on the bay? Hmmm, I guess Schmidbauer better start looking for space inland.

This whole thing is just so tragic, all these people wanting to die on their swords just to thwart Arkley, all marching to the pied-piper's tune. Get a grip.

IMHO

 
At 11:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I notice alot of supporters of Mr. Arkley's proposal challenge the "liberals" to "write a check"
for projects they favor other than the Home Depot. That is pretty valid at some levels, if you think about it.

Mr. Arkley himself has said Home Depot is essential for the financing of his project.

So Mr Arkley himself should listen to supporters and foot the bill for the project himself and forget about Home Depot.

Maybe Mr. Arkley should consider doing a public stock offering to help raise money if he is short.
He would have to share the profits with people, but that's okay.


Michael
Editor@Fairchance.Us

 
At 12:28 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Hired guns 11:55? Please don't talk about Brian Morrissey like that.He was planning to move here long before he was hired to sell this proposal,right?Oh well,Iguess if the hired gun is from Nebraska its okay. I was there,and am not a member of CREG. Didn't one of the presenters who grew up here say he left because of a lack of good paying jobs,perhaps due to the invasion of big boxes and chains?

 
At 12:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:46 - You seem unaware of why this city council turned down the Arkley gift of the Balloon Track.

By law, any owner of record becomes part of a chain of owners that are then liable for the contamination already documented on the Balloon Track! The City Council was elected to represent us, and protecting the city from liability is their fiduciary responsibility. They took time to study the issues carefully before declining this very generous gift.

#2 The city of Eureka is not the lead agency in regards to cleaning up contaminants in the city or anywhere in California-the State of California is. The State of California sets the standards and enforces the cleanup. The City of Eureka never tells the State of California what to do-you can check my facts.

In many, many meetings the regulators themselves have stated Union Pacific was in compliance of the cleanup and abatement order (at this time). You need educate yourself instead of allowing CREG or anyone else to feed you false information which you are in turn spreading to others as ‘facts’. http://water100.waterboards.ca.gov/rb1/orders/asp/r.asp

Because the property has been sitting fallow and fenced off, it is considered unused even though transients have illegally made this place their home. It’s dangerous to allow people to sleep next to contaminated soils for long periods of time but no one seems to care about them! There have even been arguments about leaving the homeless alone-we have nowhere else to ‘put’ them.

You said money shouldn’t be the first consideration-what should? If it costs too much to find another place for the homeless-do you agree to leave them alone? If it costs more than we have for an aquarium, should we wait until it costs eight times more? If it costs too much to shop for building supplies at Pierson’s, should we drive to Santa Rosa, Crescent City, Redding to a Home Depot?

 
At 12:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can I borrow some gas money?

 
At 12:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In many, many meetings the regulators themselves have stated Union Pacific was in compliance of the cleanup and abatement order (at this time)."

Letting it sit vacant.

Any proposal for development will require additional clean-up.

 
At 12:55 PM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

This is one of the best discussions I have read on Fred's Blog. One of the presenters did say he grew up in Eureka, but went to school and now lives on Oregon. We went to the packed reception with wonderful hors'douvres and delicious home-baked cookies. We let someone else have our chairs and went home and listened to the presentation on KMUD (88.3 - Eureka; 91.1 Redway) from 7 - 9 PM. There was still discussion going on between the audience members and the presenters when the radio broadcast was over. KMUD may have a re-broadcast if you missed the event and want to hear it. Also, I believe it was filmed and will be available at savetheeurekawaterfront.org

 
At 12:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eureka is a changin' and some don't like it. Get used to it as events like that one will be a lot more common. People moving here have seen unbridled development ruin communities. They will work to make sure there is control no matter how much you bitch about it.

There was a lot of effort put into the event. Many hours of DONATED time and energy. Those community members work for what they believe in no matter how much you think it is a conspiracy all controlled by a single person.

The nay-sayers will blame it on Salzman or some PAC. What they don't get is that it is a changing demographic in Eureka. No one shipped in folks from Arcata... those were your new neighbors.

 
At 1:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thats right 12:47 -
"Any proposal for development will require additional clean-up"

Which started yesterday with picking up trash, will continue with soils remediation to remoce arsenic and heavy petroleum products etc until the State of California is satisfied the cleanup meets the standard for the proposed development - Marina Center.

No much anyone can do about it since somebody else owns it. Get used to it. Even Larry Glass is catching on.

 
At 1:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry 1:04. The City of Eureka controls the zoning, and therefore the land use, and therefore the ultimate toxic cleanup requirements. Vote Peter LaVallee, Larry Glass, Nan Abrams and Ron Kuhnel. Oh - and one Republican - Bonnie Neely. Then we will see.

 
At 1:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry Nocandoo.
Republican yes FLEMMING since Neely hasn't done a damn thing to represent the city of Eureka/Samoa since she doesn't get involved in city issues. Her 4th District Territory.

She said it herself in the KEET debate-The job of supervisor is more than representing a city-its the whole county. EXCEPT that she is the 4th District Rep and she hasn't been plugged in.

Can't vote for Peter LaVallee either-shit stirrer. We are not Arcata. I don't want to vote for any candidate for any race that isn't going to deal with what we have to deal with.

Flemming=Clean up the Balloon Track NOW. Neely=Same old same old.

Peter=Lets waste the public's time like they do in Arcata(move to Arcata Peter!) Peter wants to discuus antiwar resolutions, same sex marriage-you are not Gavin Newsom, sorry. Deal with the mega numbers of Safe and Sober houses and the sorry state of affairs in code enforcement. Yah Code Enforcement its the city's job to enforce the municipal and safety codes and how about some traffic citations, but we can't find the money to fully staff the police dept-why Peter??

Even if we did arrest a few people Gallegos would just plea them out. Why anyone 'decent' wants to run for these offices is beyond the imagination.

 
At 1:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If CREG is a non-profit, then what charity do they represent?

And why is no member of CREG stating where they get their financial donations?

Who paid for CREG's TV commercials?

Who paid for CREG's event at the Wharfinger on Friday evening (hall rental, speaker's travel expenses, etc.)?

It's now 24-hours later and I'm still waiting for a CREG spokesperson to post using their name and explain to all of us how CREG promotes "Real Economic Growth" versus "Real Eureka Griping”.

Come on Tom Peters, tell us real answers, not rambling thoughts like in your letter-to-the-editor, which did not state any real economic growth ideas.

Or maybe CREG, like the emperor, has no clothes?

The wizard behind the curtain.

The cockroaches that work in the dark and are afraid of the light.

Sounds an awful lot like a certain political consultant who doesn’t even live in Eureka, yet is now the communications director for CREG.

Communicate to us, Mr. Communications Director.

Deal in reality, not fantasy.

And for god sakes man, post your name for once.

You are the communication director, aren’t you?

 
At 1:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:20 says:
Yah Code Enforcement its the city's job to enforce the municipal and safety codes and how about some traffic citations, but we can't find the money to fully staff the police dept-

Of course the Mayor doesn't get a vote, this is something that Virginia Bass has had the ability to deal with, but has not done so. Why should we vote for her for Mayor if she has failed us as a council-person. If you are unhappy with the way things are in Eureka, get rid of the 3 incumbent council members, for they are to blame.

Also, Flemming and the board of sups have nothing to do with the Balloon Track, but nice job of confusing the voters Nancy.

 
At 1:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:20 PM said

"Why anyone 'decent' wants to run for these offices is beyond the imagination."

So why don't you run?

 
At 2:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:58 Why don't I run...

For many reasons but mainly it doesn't pay enough. Money IS everything.

 
At 2:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your right ! The Times - Standard is against Jerry Droz because he wants the people to decideon all things. The Times is not giving Droz a fair shake . Neely , Bass , Lavallee , Geist , Wolford and more are trying to dominate , Eureka because they are all part of the R.C.A.A. a government funded tax free corporation that are responsible for all the drug and prisoner rehabs in town . The Times is trying everything to destroy , Droz . Even keeping him out of the photos . Boycott the Times - Standard . Thank God for , Fred . He allows free speech . The Times does not .

 
At 2:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jerry, it's just not feasible to let the public decide all things. That's why it's so important to elect good people to local office - they are there to represent you!

OH - RCAA is a great asset to our community. They do not carry nearly as much responsibility as you say, but they do a great deal of good with whatever funding they can scrounge. Being part of RCAA is GOOD for the community and good politics, too. Anyway, keep on keepin' on...

 
At 2:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In my four years here i never could get the Fire , Police , Health and other departments to do their job and i have had to hire attorneys to get them to do the job that they are already are supposed to be doing . Well , the other day the Fire Inspector told me that the Council says "don't do anything about it " and I'm talking trash up to your knees , junk and abandoned cars & other health related issues . Is this the kind of Council we need on board ??!! Get rid of them all and BOYCOTT the Times - Standard . They are trying to make us believe we have only two choices ; Bass and Lavallee . It's all part of their plot to dominate Eureka because they are all part of the R.C.A.A.
Jerry

 
At 2:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are never going to get anyone decent to run for , Mayor and for the Council positions on $3.75 an hour . It is part of the Cities scheme to dominate this town with more and more shelters . They want to dominate this City along with their government grants . No one can afford to serve this City on those kind of wages so they get them to work for their regime called the Redwood Community Action Agency .This is why their are so pro - Neely , Bass , LaVallee , Geist and the rest but , they never figured they would get a decent candidate willing to take the job on $550.00 a month until i stepped in using my own money . I will not be influenced or paid off by anyone . I just want to do what's right for us all , that's all . We do not need more Police . What we need is less crime . We have 5 times the amount of crime than any City this size in America and 4 times the crime as , Ventura ...a population of 104, 000 people .More than twice that of the National average . WE NEED A COMPLETE CHANGE OF OUR CURRENT ELECTED OFFICALS IF THIS IS TO CHANGE . Jerry

 
At 3:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not yet, Jerry.

 
At 3:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We don't need more police but less crime ? Wow, you are a fucking genius!

 
At 3:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eureka currently has FIVE spots open on the EPD that have been budgeted for but not yet filled. There are currently 8500 spots open statewide for law enforcement officers. The pay of the EPD is not great but not bad either. So the question becomes, what will it take to fill these slots?

 
At 4:08 PM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

Wow! I don't turn on my computer for a day and a half...

I went to the CREG meeting; I found it to be interesting and professionally done. Other than the 20 minute delay, I thought they did a very nice job.

In response to Saturday‘s 12:05 comment, I asked about consensus because I was curious. In this land of referendums and initiatives – is “consensus” 50% + 1? I was happy with Professor Gillem’s response which was as you stated "It's my understanding that this same zoning change was put before the voters in 1998 and they rejected it 61% to 39%. To me, that is consensus."

I believe that consensus is possible – very possible with the Marina Center. I just wonder if that type of vote happened today… what would the result be? If it was for the Marina Center would CREG endorse it? Support it?

 
At 4:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For what it's worth, a "consensus" is when no one objects...everyone agrees. In a consensus decision-making model, one dissenting voice can keep any action from happening. I don not think you want consensus decision-making on the Ballon Track, Brian.

The vote on your project will take place November 7. Who will you be voting for?

 
At 4:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Consensus will never occur when Arkley is involved. The left would no longer have a boogie man to rally their troops against and would have to explain why they don't want progress. I will bet any amount that should the Marina Center proposal not be approved and the process is turned back to the community, 20 years from now, the site will still be barren and a eyesore, but we'll have three or four grant funded studies telling us all the wonderful things we could build there.

 
At 4:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't see anyone trying to cut Rob Arkley out of the development. It seems more like an effort to air real community issues during the process of zoning a property currently zoned "Public" (Parks, Schools, etc.) to Big Box Retail. The current proposal's methodology needs to be re-set. A new city could work with Mr. Arkley...rather than FOR him.

 
At 4:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A new city council, make that.

 
At 4:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone made a comment that the people wanting to bring down the Marina Center are our new neighbors from other areas who have given up the city/suburban life to to move to their new idea of paradise. As a Humboldt native, I welcome you. But honestly, your ideas are a little foreign to us. Everything from skills bartering for job creation to social activism on national issues.

You see, we have worked hard for the past four our five generations to build our towns up to this point. No, we don't want to become Santa Rosa. That is the farthest thing from our minds. What we want is a place where our children can grow up and have half a chance of finding gainful employment after graduation. And the jobs that are here, we as their parents are barely holding onto. We desire to own our homes without fear of a meth lab or drug dealers entering into our neighborhood or even just to have our belongings stay in the garage and not be stolen and sold for a quick high.

It is our belief that if we can create jobs for a living wage, perhaps not only will our kids stay and live in the same area their grandparents and great-grand parents lived but maybe those same jobs will keep them out of having to hook up with a high school buddy and grow dope in their rented duplex just to make some semblance of a living.

We didn't do a too bad of job of building this place into the towns we call home. Because otherwise you wouldn't have left The Bay Area or Sacramento or Los Angeles or San Diego to live here and you may have taken a chance on Chico or Redding or Medford or Eugene.

In building Eureka to it's present state, we have worked hard as a community through social congress via business and service organizations to make this a better place to live for all of us.

As my new neighbor, I haven't seen you at the PTA meetings or leading a girl scout troop or help coach Little League. Perhaps it's because you don't have children of your own or maybe they have already grown. I haven't seen you pitch in and raise money to fight cancer by joining The Relay For Life or join The Humboldt Sponsors in their endeavors. When was the last time you attended the Humboldt County Fair? Are you a member of Rotary or Kiwanis or Chamber of Commerce? Are you affecting change from within for the city by volunteering?

Now some of your ideas are good. Walking trails, a clean bay and surrounding environment, same-sex marriage and even a Trader Joes. But please, try to understand that we are not all deep pocketed developers who want to turn Eureka into Santa Rosa. So honestly, we are turning to people we trust to encourage growth and a healty community for the future. And we believe the Marina Center is one way(and just ONE way) to foster a new future beyond our dependancy on the past industries of timber and fishing.

Yes, we welcome you to Eureka. Lend a hand instead of fueding over political ideology. Join an organization along with us instead of against us so together we can help create real change. Call it grassroots if you will, because we've been doing this in a grassroots nature for over a hundred and fifty years. We are not some scarey giant boogeyman corporation.....we are your neighbors.

 
At 4:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said 4:38. I hope your common sense spreads and prevails on election day. Don't hand the keys to the city ot Mr. salzman.

 
At 5:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Still not one word from Mr. Salzman, the CREG spokesperson on CREG's "real economic growth".

Not that Salzman would ever use his name on a blog.

Or Salzman would ever speak in terms of documentable facts, versus emotional fear.

Like that energizer bunny -- still waiting... waiting... waiting...

 
At 5:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are getting involved beyond what you might think. We volunteer at the Zoo, the Humane Society, clean up days in the parks and on the Bay, we even get appointed to committees and commissions. We also shop locally because we appreciate what it takes for those businesses to survive. We donate to local charities because we can see the effect of our dollars. We try to understand what makes the long time locals such freindly and open people so that we can be the same. Our neighbors get us interested in locall events so yes we go to the Fair, the races, farmers markets, and most every event on the Bay like Paddlefest.

You see these things are what makes Eureka great and we love them too. Especially since we don't have to fight traffic and long lines to enjoy them.

So take time to understand us. We aren't that bad and we aren't hypnotized by Richard Salzman. We have our own minds. Really.

 
At 6:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:55 AM "And why do those local control advocates always turn to out-of-the-area experts to support their positions? Someone who knows nothing about this area, a hired gun to come in and inspire you with empty pipe dreams."

How sad that this person is angry about experts being brought in to share their expertise with similar situations. People who want the best information have to look in more than one place. Simply accepting what you're told by Arkley's hired guns does not make you informed about what the many options actually are.

Why so scared of new ideas?

 
At 6:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Homework time!

Economic Impact Assessment for New Retail Development, Eureka, California
Bay Area Economics, August 1999
> Analyzed the likely impact of both a WalMart and a Home Depot on Eureka’s local economy.
> Found that a Home Depot would likely consume 75% of all hardware and building material sales within the City of Eureka, and 50% of all such sales within the county.
> The impact of a Home Depot on existing local businesses would be even worse than the impact of a WalMart.

Continuing Analysis of Shopping Habits in San Diego (the CASH study)
San Diego Union Tribune, 1990-1996
> Found that over a 6 year period, Home Depot more than doubled their share of the local market.
> Home Depot consumed from 50% to 75% of all sales for tools, paint, lawn and garden products, and hardware and building materials.
> All of their competitors combined were forced to split just 25% of the market.

Understanding the Fiscal Impact of Land Use in Ohio
Randall Gross, Development Economics, August 2004
> Analyzed fiscal impact studies from 8 central Ohio communities between 1997 and 2003
> In 7 of 8 communities, retail development created a net drain on municipal budgets
> Net annual tax loss of -.44 cents per square foot.

Fiscal Impact Analysis of Residential and Non-Residential Land Use Prototypes
Tischler & Associates, July 2002
> Found that Big Box retail in Barnstable, Massachusetts cost taxpayers more than they produced in the way of tax revenues.
> Big Box Retail produced annual net drain of -$468 per 1,000 sq ft.
> Small-scale retail produced a net gain of +$326 per 1,000 sq ft.

Understanding the Tax Base Consequences of Local Economic Development Decisions
RKG Associates, 2001
> Concord, New Hampshire added 2.8 million sq ft of new commercial development (primarily Big Box stores) over 12 years.
> Tax revenue declined by 19% over that time.
> To make up for this, Concord now has one of the highest property tax rates in the state.

The Andersonville Study of Retail Economics
Civic Economics, October 2004
> Found that spending $100 at a neighborhood independent business $68 in additional local economic activity, versus just $43 for a chain business.
> Local businesses created a local economic benefit of $179 per square foot, versus just $105 for a chain business.

The Economic Impact of Locally Owned Businesses vs. Chains: A Case Study in Midcoast Maine
The Institute for Local Self Reliance, September 2003
> Three times as much money stays in the local economy when it is spent at locally owned businesses rather than large chains.
> Local businesses spent 44.6 % of their revenue in the local area, versus just 14.1% for large chains.

The Impact of ‘Big-Box’ Building Materials Stores on Host Towns and Surrounding Counties in a Midwestern State
Kenneth E. Stone, Iowa State University, 2001
> Analyzed several Iowa communities where Menards or Home Depot had located in the last decade.
> Found that sales gains were equaled by losses among other businesses.

 
At 6:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When i first came here i started buying junk houses to restore and bare land . I bought in some of the worser areas because i could pick these properties up cheap . There were crack houses junk & abandoned vehicles , trash thrown about and other health issues to contend with . I contacted Departments within the City in an attempt to get these areas cleaned up . These Departments were non - compliant . After hiring attorneys to get them to do the job they were already supposed to be doing i later found out they were told by the Council "not to do anything about it ". Later i found out about the grant money being dumped on us to open shelters . I learned , Lavalle and the others were being paid to bring these shelters in . I also found out why there is no enforcement of zoning laws. Lavallee's regime were getting millions to bring these shelters into , Eureka so naturally they were not going to enforce these laws over the money they recieved . The Times - Standard wants their group of politicians to win and because i am not part of it they are doing everything to make everyone believe i do not even exsist .THEY WANT TO DOMINATE , EUREKA . The Lavallee regime and campaign is being supported largely by the U.S. Government maybe even The Times - Standard so , i can't compete with their money v/s mine especially now because RealEstate has taken a nose dive here and i am on the verge of losing my RealEstate .When i disrupted Lavallee's speech i knew all about what was going on . I looked like a fool only because no one else knew what was going in the City except me .So , now your beginning to understand what i already knew years ago with my dealing with our elected officials , Realestate and this City .This is why i said , "You have screwed this City up ! No one understood this . ".The Council also elect the Police Chief so if The Police Chief doesn't listen to the Council they will fire him . The Chief really does want to do a good job but , he is told to do things that make him look bad when it really all goes back to the Council having domination over these Departments . That's why we need to pay our elected officials more money . Only then will we get quality people to represent us . Likewise......you cannot get a good qualified engineer to work on less than minimum wage . What i said during the taped interview at The Times - Standard may be chopped up , edited or even deleted . They do not want me getting the truth out to you the people .

 
At 6:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More homework:

City of Eureka 2004 Strategic Visioning Plan
“Work under the principles of Prosperity!
“Complete a Balloon Track Master Plan to determine the highest and best uses for the site”

Prosperity! strategy
“Small owner-resident businesses represent our greatest potential for economic growth and stability.”
“Economic development efforts should give priority to supporting existing enterprises as the best source of business expansion and local job growth.”
“Community economic development efforts should focus on promoting locally owned businesses, local entrepreneurship, and homegrown activities that create new wealth and can succeed among national and international competitors.”

Humboldt Bay Harbor, Recreation and Conservation District
Port of Humboldt Bay Harbor Revitalization Plan, February, 2003

“The Dock B / Balloon Track site is recommended for consideration as a tourism/marine science cluster, possibly including a public aquarium, marine lab, cruise dock, Naval vessel museum and related activities… “
Humboldt Bay Management Plan
“Marine Science / Tourism, Recommended Site: Dock B / Balloon Track Property”

City of Eureka Local Coastal Plan
Section 156.002, Objectives and Purposes.
“The purposes of this chapter are to… Assure priority for coastal-dependent and coastal-related development over other developments on the shoreline.”

8/24/99 Eureka Measure J
”Shall an ordinance be adopted amending the land use designation in the City's General Plan, Local Coastal Program and Zoning Map for Union Pacific's "Balloon Track" changing it from "Public" to "Service Commercial" thereby allowing commercial/retail use of the property?”

61% of Eureka’s voters voted “NO!”

Cherie Arkley, Eureka Times-Standard, November 2004
“It’s not going to be a Big Box! Repeat; It’s not going to be a Big Box!”

Rob Arkley, North Coast Journal, November, 2004
"If you're me, do you really care what the city thinks?"

 
At 7:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok ok, Rob Arkley deserves some of your scorn for being a spoiled rich kid and usually getting his way.

But the public floggings over that one statement are cruel and unusual and excessive after what-a year of repeating this ONE phrse in every medium 10X.

 
At 7:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Back to you 4:18
"For what it's worth, a "consensus" is when no one objects...everyone agrees. In a consensus decision-making model, one dissenting voice can keep any action from happening. I don not think you want consensus decision-making on the Ballon Track, Brian.

The vote on your project will take place November 7. Who will you be voting for?"

This is a small community of politically polar opposites-what RU smoking to think Everyone is going to agree.

That isn't just Pollyannaish-its foolish.

Why didn't you CREG guys show up with enough signatures to put this on the ballot? You keep saying you want the citizens to decide and keep repeating yourselves that your opposition is in the minority.

Why didn't you PROVE it once and for all?

 
At 7:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just another comment ......i brought a tape recorder that was hidden inside my briefcase ( they never knew about ) while i was at The Times _ Standard during the taped interview . I may play it back during the debate on the 18th if they try to shorten , edit or delete me when i was there being interviewed ......will keep you posted . We need to get the word out about what is going on in this Town to all the people who are displaying LaVallee signs . HELP US ALL !!

 
At 7:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The vote on your project will take place November 7. Who will you be voting for?"

What vote on what project? You think 90 is about the Ballon Track?

If so how would that work BTW?

 
At 7:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More Salzman attempts at trying to sound important with "partial facts" from various studies.

Wow.

Still hasn't answered one question about CREG (and probably never will).

So much for being the CREG communications director.

 
At 7:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:34 Jerry you need to put your posts into a word program and have someone check them out-you are really sounding nuttier than ever today (sorry).

Recording someone without their knowledge is a crime so its a good thing you didn't post your own name that time!

You know how Paul Gallegos can really take off after the bad guys and it might cost you $400-500,000 dollars.

 
At 7:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What vote are we talking about that has to do with Marina Center?? Somebody fill me in!

 
At 7:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is this consensus BS? Since when did we have anyone much less everyone in agreement about a project?

The CoOp got criticized about their paint colors for godsake. Adorni Center isn't Park enough, the swimming pool idea been shot down numerous times and the Arkleys couldn't even buy the Balloon Track and GIVE it away.

Where was CREG then-did you nutjobs think about volunteering to develop it with your eco-groovey ideas when it was up for grabs last time. I didn't hear about it if you did.

What the hell-its their own money. Be happy. Whatever it is will be nice.

 
At 7:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love that word-ECO GROOVEY!

 
At 8:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:44 Quotes Arkley in the NCJ

Rob Arkley, North Coast Journal, November, 2004
"If you're me, do you really care what the city thinks?"

This quote, when taken out of context, as I believe it has, certainly does look bad. However, in context, he was speaking about the Study that was going to be partially funded by a grant, with the matching funds coming from other City funds, more than likely the beleagured general fund. I believe that the major focus of the study was how to attract a buyer for the balloon track parcel, and that Rob Arkley was simply saying in effect, why waste your money, there is already a buyer in place, and I might not like your recommendations anyway. Not trying to defend the statement, just trying to put it into context.

 
At 10:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

THANK YOU 8:46. That's how I heard that statement, too. Why waste your money. To watch the knaves twist it to their ends as they howl like screeching monkeys... it just defies imagination.

 
At 10:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The November 7th vote is all about Chris Kerrigan's June 18, 2006 CREG meeting comments, “Send me some council members that will agree with me. We need a City Council that will go back and visit that study and start the process all over again."

Yeah just what we need, back to square one.

If not, file some lawsuits, public protests, stall this project for at least another 4-5 years.

And we wonder why Humboldt County has such a reputation?

 
At 1:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I believe that the major focus of the study was how to attract a buyer for the balloon track parcel, and that Rob Arkley was simply saying in effect, why waste your money, there is already a buyer in place, and I might not like your recommendations anyway. "

WRONG - Read the following and get your facts straight"


Times-Standard (Eureka, CA)

January 4, 2004

Section: Local News

City receives Headwaters Funds for Balloon Track
Meghan Vogel The Times-Standard

EUREKA -- Plans for the long-abandoned Balloon Track are moving slowly but surely forward. In December, the city was awarded $45,000 in Headwaters Funds to develop a master plan for the blighted piece of land, which is home to an old railyard, and adjacent to Waterfront Drive. The funds will be used to hire a consultant, or consultants, to help develop the master plan with input from the community, said Eureka City Manager David Tyson.


"Our goal through the efforts of the consultant is to have the community involved in rezoning the property," Tyson said.

Although the approximately 50-acre land parcel is owned by the Union Pacific Railroad Co., which has not used the property in decades, the city has the final say on its zoning. The land is currently zoned as public, which Tyson said leads to a narrowed use of the site. Only public services can currently be located there, such as a railroad, city hall or a jail.

Tyson said the city will be discussing other zoning options for the Balloon Track, such as service commercial, industrial, light manufacturing, parks and recreation, or perhaps a combination of all these.

"We hope to focus public discussion and come up with a plan," he said.

Other options for the land include the possibility of housing and connecting transportation corridors.

Union Pacific will be an important player in the discussion about what to do with the Balloon Track, Tyson said. Currently, Eureka has no plans to purchase the land from the railroad company.

"The city doesn't have the financial wherewithal to buy it, but it does control the zoning card on the property," Tyson said.

After the process of a hiring a consultant is finalized, the public meetings will begin the first part of July. The city will match the balance of the consultant's fee.

The master plan will also incorporate the need for cleanup of the area, and address what has already been done as far as decontamination of the site. The city has been working on cleaning up the area since 2001.

"We're very excited to move forward and get community input," Tyson said.

Wal-Mart had proposed building a store at the site, but withdrew its plans after voters did not approve an initiative in 1999 to change the zoning of the land to commercial.

In 2000, Rob and Cherie Arkley, who was then a city councilwoman, offered to donate $2 million to the city for the purchase of 30 acres of the property to be used as a light-industrial and recreational park. They withdrew their offer after conflicts with the Eureka City Council stalled action.

 
At 7:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weren't they 're-awarded' the Headwaters money in an attempt by Neely to stop Arkley from buying the piece?

 
At 7:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Send me come council members that will agree with me" ?

Gee, like little Chris Kerrigan, the guy who has never had a real job, the one who listed his occupation as coach/college student, is all knowing and everyone should agree with him.

I hope people will remember that Kerrigan and friends (Glass, LaValee,Abrams) are all together in their elections campaigns, maybe not a conspieracy but definately a plan. If they get voted in everything will go Kerrigans way, or whoever it is that pulls the strings on Kerrigan and company.

 
At 8:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:17 AM - what's your point?

It sounds exactly what SN is doing to the property, with private funds not my tax dollars.

I thought Megan Vogel was Bonnie Neely's campaign manager (unpaid, unlike Kerrigan)?

Will Bonnie answer the question of whether Richard Salzman is a volunteer on her campaign (or one of Kerrigan's associates working on her campaign)?

And 1:17 AM, get some sleep.

 
At 9:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:04, what Secrutity National and the City are engaged in right now is an approval process, not a planning process. There is simply no allowance for new ideas that would rethink the basic concept of the project.

As for 'private' dollars, the eventual project, whatever it is, will depend very heavily upon public services, requiring an ongoing subsidy that will likely far outweigh any amount of public money invested up front. This is why cities all over the country (except Eureka, apparently) take a practive role in major development projects such as this. They know that a little investment in good planning can save the city huge costs down the line.

I have yet to see a single piece of data presented to support SNC's claim that their proposal will actually create jobs and be good for the economy. Meanwhile, there is a virtual mountain of data, like that posted above, that indicates the harm that this project could do. Given this, the idea that "any development is good for the economy" is simply laughable.

A little planning could help ensure that Eureka gets a project which will actually benefit jobs, the economy, the environment, and the community. So far, all we have are empty, unsupported claims from the developer vs hard data to the contrary.

 
At 9:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi 1:17 - I am 8:46...
Here is a quote from the NCJ Nov 11th 2004 From the Publisher Judy Hodgeson:

The Balloon Track is private property. The city, on behalf of the public, has a right to determine its use by zoning the property, and on rare occasions such as this, to change the zoning. Sometimes the public will chip in money on a potential development where there is an overriding public benefit. The city's intent of studying the property, as I understand it, was to help spur cleanup and development, to make the property more attractive to a potential developer, and in that regard it would have been money well spent.

So, no, I dont believe, as you put it, that I am "wrong", nor does your references to the TS article make me "wrong"...the whole point of the cleanup was to help attract a buyer. I certainly dont dispute the intent of the study, which was to "spur cleanup, and development".

I am just saying that Arkley was saying that he was already buying the property, was going to clean it up, and that the city didnt need to waste their money.

One other point: It's been mentioned that MANY other properties around the bay, including the Arcata Marsh treatment plant, the Adorni Center, and others were cleaned up and CAPPED. Why is it sooooo important to you now that this piece not be capped, but cleaned up to well beyond the legal requirements?

 
At 9:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Judy Hodgson is an Arkley sycophant, but more importantly, the Balloon Track lot is a polluted former railroad yard. It is has had more years of more toxic pollution than the other sites mentioned. That explains "why" the property needs more thorough cleanup and "why" the community can't just let the local royalty pave it over and let it leak into the bay for a few centuries.

 
At 9:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whole bay has had mills, railyards, and a freaking landfill site(which was capped).

The whole capping thing is just a red herring for those who dont want to have a home depot.

I certainly dont have a problem with that point of view, but its intellectually dishonest to tie everything to the capping issue.

 
At 9:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We don't know that it will be cleaned up "well beyond the legal requirements". Those requirements will be dependent on the planned use. If the community were allowed to complete the master plan process, we could end up with a project that will require a more-complete cleanup than the pave-it-over plan currently proposed.

Which leads to a second question. Why didn't the powers that were in charge do a better job for this community in the past and why should we settle for so little now? Just because the council in charge during the Adorni development didn't do their job is no reason to let this one off the hook.

 
At 10:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

9:57, I am enjoying this discussion, much better to have civil discourse than namecalling. I think we have honest disagreements and be able to see both sides of the arguement. That being said, and correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt the State of Calif through one of their agencies control the process? I ask this, because if Capping is an acceptable method of clean up, and the State is in charge, how can the City force a cleanup BEYOND the accepted legal remedy?

 
At 10:26 AM, Blogger Greg said...

The answer, 9:57, is that different land uses have different levels of required cleanup. The current zoning of the Balloon Track provides for one of the highest levels of cleanup. The Arkley proposal requires low levels of cleanup, which of course translate to Dollars for the Developer. The City can dictate cleanup by controlling the land use zoning - a city responsibility. So you see, it is about the city! Vote LaVallee, Kuhnel, Glass, and Abrams. While you're at it, keep Bonnie Neely on the coastal commission by re-electing her to the board of supervisors.

One more point - blaming people who want to do the right thing (CREG, Neely, etc.), saying those people are the reason "nothing has happened" so far, is like trying to blame the Democrats for deaths in Iraq. It's Orwellian Republospeak, all the way from Washington D.C. to Washington Street in Eureka, CA!

 
At 10:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because it's about "Local Control"
Aren't you marching in lock step with that idea?

 
At 10:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It's Orwellian Republospeak, all the way from Washington D.C. to Washington Street in Eureka, CA!"

Ok, which is it....Schmidbauer Lumber or The Welfare Office that you are referring to? Leon's Muffler or KFC? Oh, I understand....the closed elementary school where our working families used to send their kids before they all had to move away due to job loss or get on public assistance. Oh wait...I guess it IS the Welfare office. So that means we're all controlled by Nan Abrams. I get it.

 
At 10:40 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But Greg, as I understand it, Capping and the current cleanup plan proposed by SN, satsify ALL legal requirements. Are you saying that if it zoned diferrently, there will be even more cleanup required? That is not how I understand it. BTW, havent blamed Bonnie, CREG or anyone...

 
At 10:41 AM, Blogger Greg said...

As far as I am concerned, "local control" is why the American Revolution was fought. Many brave people have died for our right to have local control, among ideals such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If you don't like local control, you might be happier in a monarchy or a totalitarian dictatorship...you know, someplace with "central" control.

Sure, it's about local control -- and a great deal more. CREG has done a great job trying to educate the community. Now, it's pretty much up to the community on 11/7. Get out and vote!

 
At 10:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for asking 10:09
I have posted this before but will do so again for people coming in late to the discussion:
http://water100.waterboards.ca.gov/rb1/orders/asp/r.asp

This is a link to the cleanup and abatement order from the NCRWQCB THE State of Califonia agency responsible for setting cleanup standards and enforcing actions.

The City of Eureka has no jurisdiction in the cleanup process-just the zoning process.

As I have stated before-it doesn't matter much who is elected Nov 7th because the city council will have quite a lot of data to go through in their decision regarding athe request for zoning change.

I assume that SN has done the studies as due diligence about job creation and tax benefits to the city. ANY city council will have to go over the submission with a fine tooth comb and make the best decision for the citizens of Eureka who elected them-even the ones who didn't vote for them...

Tax revenues are what city services depend on. Staffing the police and fire departments adequately is just the beginning. There is also planned maintenence of buildings and equipment-projects that have been occaisionally put on hold because there are no funds available.

No one ever seems to attend the budget meetings. It's pretty dry stuff and like Larry stated on his walk around the neighborhood to someone who posted over the weekend somewhere in these blogs-he didn't study the budget because its a very large document. He has not even looked at the executive summary posted online.

We need some fresh blood on the city council-perhaps Ron Kuhnel will win a seat? But the other candidates just don't want to be bothered with the details.

The election isn't a one issue deal. You (new city council)guys all have to show up twice a month, every month, and deal with personnel issues, the BUDGET, finding money to pay for street and alley paving, staffing the police and fire depts to safe levels. You have to be UP on every subject at all times because you never know you is going to show up at your place of business with a pressing city issue and you won't have time to look up the executive summary!

You will be interupted with phone calls most every night at dinner time, probably not go out to dinner in local restaurants as much after you notice people coming to your table every time you do-the list is endless. $550 a month doesn't even add up to the $3.25 an hour Droz said you'll end up with. Try $.25 an hour.

 
At 10:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
1. Thank you for asking 10:09
I have posted this before but will do so again for people coming in late to the discussion:
http://water100.waterboards.ca.gov/rb1/orders/asp/r.asp

This is a link to the cleanup and abatement order from the NCRWQCB THE State of California agency responsible for setting cleanup standards and enforcing actions.

The City of Eureka has no jurisdiction in the cleanup process-just the zoning process.

As I have stated before-it doesn't matter much who is elected Nov 7th because the city council will have quite a lot of data to go through in their decision regarding a request for zoning change.

I assume that SN has done the studies as due diligence about job creation and tax benefits to the city. ANY city council will have to go over the submission with a fine tooth comb and make the best decision for the citizens of Eureka who elected them-even the ones who didn't vote for them...

Tax revenues are what city services depend on. Staffing the police and fire departments adequately is just the beginning. There is also planned maintenance of buildings and equipment-projects that have been occasionally put on hold because there are no funds available.

No one ever seems to attend the budget meetings. It's pretty dry stuff and like Larry stated on his walk around the neighborhood to someone who posted over the weekend somewhere in these blogs-he didn't study the budget because it’s a very large document. He has not even looked at the executive summary posted online.

We need some fresh blood on the city council-perhaps Ron Kuhnel will win a seat? But the other candidates just don't want to be bothered with the details.

The election isn't a one issue deal. You (new city council)guys all have to show up twice a month, every month, and deal with personnel issues, the BUDGET, finding money to pay for street and alley paving, staffing the police and fire depts to safe levels. You have to be UP on every subject at all times because you never know you is going to show up at your place of business with a pressing city issue and you won't have time to look up the executive summary!

You will be interrupted with phone calls most every night at dinner time, probably not go out to dinner in local restaurants as much after you notice people coming to your table every time you do-the list is endless. $550 a month doesn't even add up to the $3.25 an hour Jerry Droz said you'll end up with. Try $.25 an hour.

 
At 10:55 AM, Blogger Greg said...

10:09, I am saying the current zoning of this property is Public, which requires a high degree of toxic cleanup, and that the city council has been asked to change the zoning to a different use with lesser pollution cleanup requirements, which yes, does mean the city is in the middle of the issue. Of course, "local control" is only effective if the locals take control. Vote 11/7.

 
At 11:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, but Greg, you still have not answered the question. Is the cleanup as currently proposed by SN, which includes capping, acceptable for Public? It was for the Adorni Center.

 
At 11:15 AM, Blogger Greg said...

As I understand it, SN proposes to clean the property up to the level required to accomodate their land use proposal (which will require rezoning), and not to the levels required for already allowable uses under the "P" Public zoning designation. It's been awhile since I chaired the city's zoning committee, so feel free to check me out by calling city planning. They're in the phone book.

Personally, I feel the Arkley Project is putting the "horse before the cart" and that the community should play a much more active role in land use decision-making. The issue should not be about SN or Rob or Cherie or me or you, but about the futre of the community of Eureka and Humboldt County. Sure wish you would include your name in your posts, though. Thanks -

Greg

 
At 11:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From The Eureka City Council Strategic Visioning document:

Complete a Balloon Track Master Plan to determine the highest and best uses for the site (10/04)

 
At 11:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Consider the Possibilities" if
The Boardwalk was unfinished..
The Swasey was just sitting there...
The new Zoo Building was not there
That the Clean up for the Adorni was not adequate
That the Clean up for the New HSU facility was not adequate...

The reality is that these new projects have happened and are continuing to happen...
How many of you would prefer that we were not enjoying the benifits of these efforts that have been completed. Maybe Fred could take a
an on line poll...

 
At 11:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd like to see a slide show of the buildings we had before the Arkleys and Kramers tackled them.

And the zoo and Boardwalk not to forget them.

 
At 11:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the level of cleanup on the site. The Regional Water Board issued a Cleanup and Abatement Order (CAO) on the property to require UP to clean it up to a certain level until it is to be developed. Basically, they required that the contamination be controlled on site so that it does not migrate into the bay. This is vastly different than an actual cleanup, and was meant as a temporary move only.

The reason the RWB did not require a full cleanup at the time is that different types of development require different levels of cleanup. The level is driven by the type and duration of exposure people will subjected to. If people will have contact with the bare earth, as in parks or residential yards, or if people will be living on site at ground level, then the ground needs to be cleaned up to the highest standard. Thus, the zoning determines the level of cleanup required.

If people will not have direct contact with the bare earth (as in a massive paved parking lot) or will not be living on site, then the property owner can escape having to do a full cleanup. This is specifically why Security National ditched their promise that "It's not going to be a Big Box," and chose the project they are doing: to avoid cleanup costs. As Cherie Arkley herself said, “We don't want to spend $12 million to clean it up” (North Coast Journal, January 12, 2006.)

So the project they have chosen will allow them to make more money at the expense of the health and safety of Eureka residents, as well as the coastal environment. But there is an even bigger issue here: Since the reduced level of cleanup makes the property unsafe for human habitation, the property will carry a binding deed restriction that it can never, ever be used for parks or residences ever again. That means that the Arkley's increased profits will also come at the expense of any other future opportunities for the property. If 10 years from a later City Council decides they would like to add some residences on site, or add a small park, it cannot be done.

Why should the public incur increased risk to their health and safety, and a loss of all future opportunities for a major waterfront site, just so a private developer can increase their profits? There is a term for this: PUBLIC SUBSIDY. IN this case, the taxpayers will subsidize the project to the tune of some $12 million.

By comparison, a Master Planning study would have considered the highest and best use for the property, zoned it accordingly, and considered ways to get the property fully cleaned to allow for that optimal use. Experience elsewhere shows that this kind of public planning process, which was the focus of last Friday's forum, gets projects done faster, better, with less cost and more public buy-in, and yields a far better end result. Makes the $45,000 for a Master Planning study look like a good investment, doesn't it?

 
At 12:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Certainly as good as spending $30k to build a wall for a home owner to protect him from a trail used by kids going to Zane school (today's T-S). That trail has been in use for more than 30 years and the city let the easement slide away and now are paying for it.

BTW - Awesome post from 11:50. Nice to see facts.

 
At 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:50 what sites are you talking about? The Halverson Park next to the Adorni seems to have lots of grass with folks sitting on it, children playing on it. This seems like it should have had the highest possible standards for clean up. Does anyone know exactly "the standard of clean up" used for the Adorni site?

 
At 12:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I disagree with you 11:50.

Just because the city initially zoned this property public, doesn't mean it should have given what has happened at the site. The clean up to return it to what it was like in the 1800's isn't there so the reality is if it remains "public" it remains the same. I am satified with what happened at the Adorni Center and am satisfied with the plans for finally cleaning, capping and developing this eyesore.

I do not see it at all as any type of Public Subsidy and I find your reasoning on this backwards

 
At 12:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of the facts over looked in the whole Balloon Tract zoning issue, and you confirm this with just a simple call to City Hall, is that the "Public" zoning of the parcil was always intended as nothing more than a temporary status and would allow discussion to progress on moving the jail to this piece of land. There is a waterfront use we all want to see.

 
At 12:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here we go again. You can't have it both ways.

Let's talk about all the properties in Eureka that are capped.

Costco
Ardorni Center
Natural Foods Market

Weott Native-American Island (in process)

And I believe the Flea Market was also capped.

These properties were all cleaned up to the full extent of the law. And not one protest.

Of course, the name "Arkley" was not in play.

So please explain why Costco gets a pass, yet the radical left has to have a hissy fit if the Arkley's want to do a development?

If this property is so valuable to you, then by all means please purchase it, clean it up however you feel (to the extent of the law) and build whatever the zoning, permits, Coastal Commission, etc. allows.

Get a job and $100 million to develop and the Balloon Tract is all yours.

 
At 12:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

May 2004 NCJ

From Eureka City Manager David Tyson:

Because it was once a rail site governed by a public utility, the zoning is "P" for public, which limits development.

 
At 12:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

November 2003 -- Headwaters Fund awarded the city of Eureka $45,000 grant to help fund a master plan for the Balloon Track. The city was prepared to match that amount with $55,000 from its Redevelopment Agency. The master plan would have studied physical impediments to development, such as water and soil toxicity and protected wetlands, as well as impacts on the area's traffic. But it also would have listed what specific types of development the community wanted to see on the site. The zoning will have to be changed from its current "public" status if any new, private development is to occur at the site -- the master plan would have recommended what to change it to, after an extensive public outreach effort gathered enough community input on the recommendation.

 
At 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

September 21, 2004 -- By unanimous vote Eureka City Council supports Balloon Track Master Plan after the hundreds of hours of staff time spent writing grant applications and interviewing prospective consulting firms.

 
At 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

None of the locations you mentioned are long-time railroad yards. The pollution is greater than at other locations. The public has a right and a duty to protect people from toxics, now and in the future. And the city of Eureka has both the right and the duty to establish land use planning that is best for the community, not just driven by whoever has big bucks - nothing personal to the Arkleys at all. The Arkleys' financial support for homophobes (e.g. Sen. Rick Santorum) and racist bigots (e.g. Sen. George Allen)may cost them some good will, but millionaire financiers have rights - rights that stop where the rights of others begin. Too bad the Eureka City Council isn't willing to stand up for the public's rights with Mr. Arkley.

I have a job, thanks - but $100 mil might be nice. Not sure I would spend it on the Balloon Track, though.

 
At 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

September 2004 -- Sometime in September Councilman Leonard became aware that the property was close to changing hands. And he became aware the buyer would be Rob Arkley the owner of Eureka's Security National Servicing Corp. And Leonard knew that Arkley wanted the Balloon Track master plan killed.

Arkley confirmed this and reaffirmed his ideological commitment to private property rights, putting his position in the bluntest possible terms. "If you're me, do you really care what the city thinks?" he said. "I don't want to have an alternate plan out there because it might not be what I want."

 
At 12:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

October 19, 2004 -- Union Pacific had written the city to say that the company was in negotiations to sell the parcel to a developer, and the developer had made it known that he didn't want the city to do a master plan. He would prefer to do the plan on his own. If the city were to go forward, the letter implied, it could derail the deal. With the letter in hand, the council voted 4-1, with only Councilmember Chris Kerrigan dissenting, to send the Headwaters grant back and abandon the project.

 
At 2:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And Neely tried to get them to reconsider?

 
At 2:18 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Long Beach Aquarium was built 1988 at a cost of $117MM
http://www.beachcalifornia.com/aquarium.html

Monterey Bay Aquarium was built 1984 at a cost of $55MM
http://www.montereybayaquarium.org/aa/timelineBrowser.asp?tf=19

Both lose money each year and require huge subsidies to maintain operations.

Who's going to pay for this new aquarium (that with parking would take up the entire Balloon Tract)?

Let’s work together and remember that left-wing and right-wing are parts of an airplane.


Good points, but I suspect that the Monterey Aquarium brings the city quite a bit of revenue even if its tickets don't cover the costs. My family makes a special trip at least once a year. We stay at hotels. Eat at local restaraunts. Buy chachkas (sp?). And so on. The aquarium is the draw because my kids enjoy it immensely, more than Great America or the Santa Cruz Boardwalk.

And that's just factoring in the financial aspects. Schools all over book field trips. And the aquarium as an institution does some good for the local environment, promoting a great deal of information on their website and in their literature.

I'm not saying it's feasible in Eureka, and I'm not wedded to the idea for the balloon track. But there is an aquarium in San Francisco, and there's one way up on the Oregon coast. It wouldn't be competing for attention. I would like to see the idea explored as a draw to the community.

 
At 2:47 PM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

Lots of museums, opera houses, ect. are subsidized by private donors, corporations, endowments, and all kinds of sources, and are not solely supported by ticket prices. The aquarium idea is just a possibility, as mentioned in the name of the CREG forum, Imagine the Possibilities. You are right, Eric, an attraction to the waterfront would stimulate the tourist industry. With the exception of Gil's By the Bay in King Salmon and Cafe Marina at Woodley Island, there is no dining on the waterfront.

 
At 2:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Monterey Bay Aquarium:

420 employees and almost 900 volunteers.

1.8 million visitors a year.

 
At 2:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who wants to bet Fred is working feverishly to bump this thread off the page?

 
At 2:55 PM, Blogger Carol Ann said...

Why would he want to bump this discussion 2:50? It has been one of the most civil discussions on this Blog.

 
At 3:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can discuss civilly all you want to-but who is thinking of the homeless people camping out on toxic land? They can't speak for themselves on a blog.

As long as the land sits 'vacant' there will be homeless campers on it. My only concern with the slough redo is it gives yahoos a place to throw old tires and trash.

I would like to see the park like setting of the Water Board offices with a bridge, grass and trees, water.

 
At 3:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon - 2:48

Talk about minimum wage jobs.

 
At 4:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1.8 Million visitors and they are still losing money? Must be a hole in the tank someplace.

 
At 5:15 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

With the exception of Gil's By the Bay in King Salmon and Cafe Marina at Woodley Island, there is no dining on the waterfront.

Isn't there a Mexican place on the north side of the library that exploits the view? I haven't been there in years, so I don't remember, but it would be silly for them not to have big windows towards the water.

1.8 Million visitors and they are still losing money? Must be a hole in the tank someplace.

Considering that the tickets are about 20 bucks a piece for adult and I think like 12 or 13 for kids, I would like to know where the money goes. I'm certain they also receive more than a few grants - much of it for research. They are considered one of the top few aquariums in terms of their treatment of animals. Maybe that includes daily massage, limo service, and paid vacations.

But seriously, the money they "lose" is probably made up for in donations. Think about what 1.8 million visitors could do for Humboldt's economy.

 
At 5:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fork over the money, Eric, like the Seafood Culinary Institute - hey you could merge them and the Aquarium could raise the food for your dinner, it could be self sustaining. Imagine the possibilities, ooops, but watch out for that nutcase who takes the lobsters out of the tank, there goes your dinner

 
At 5:19 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

October 19, 2004 -- Union Pacific had written the city to say that the company was in negotiations to sell the parcel to a developer, and the developer had made it known that he didn't want the city to do a master plan. He would prefer to do the plan on his own. If the city were to go forward, the letter implied, it could derail the deal. With the letter in hand, the council voted 4-1, with only Councilmember Chris Kerrigan dissenting, to send the Headwaters grant back and abandon the project.

I completely missed that. Then again, I'm scrambling to get caught up on all this. Can you refer me to any articles that remain online? I assume it'll be in the NCJ and ER archives.

Has this been raised as a campaign issue this time around?

 
At 5:21 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

So please explain why Costco gets a pass, yet the radical left has to have a hissy fit if the Arkley's want to do a development?

Why did Costco get the pass? When did it come in anyway?

And for that matter, how did the Bayshore Mall get a pass? I probably would have opposed it if I was around at the time.

 
At 5:22 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Has anyone done a study that shows the benefits of a Home Depot here?Talking actual figures,not innuendo.All studies I've looked at say that the area will take a hit.I'm looking for a counter to that.

 
At 5:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The numbers in the report quoted so often in these blogs about the impact of a Home Depot are so out of touch with reality. I think the total sales of Home Depot/ Pierson type of product in 2005 was FIFTY million dollars more than that study projected. I kid you not.

 
At 6:10 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

5:34 wher can I find that study?And what about its effect on local businesses which are Home Depot/Pierson type?

 
At 6:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric said: "And for that matter, how did the Bayshore Mall get a pass? I probably would have opposed it if I was around at the time."

Yes Eric, that is the sentiment for most people who have moved here in the past 20 years longing for their own private Idaho.

And you wouldn't have enjoyed the old Holmes Eureka/Pacific Lumber mill site that sat there empty for God knows how many years before General Growth took a risk and developed the site into the Bayshore Mall. But I'm sure your environmental cronies would have found a way to sue them to try to put a stop to it....if you had been around.

And you would have put a stop to Valley West Shopping Center and Redwood Village Shopping Center and all of downtown McKinleyville and even the construction of Pierson's Building Center with it's proximity to the bay....if you had been around.

 
At 6:42 PM, Anonymous Eric A. Lindstrom said...

Well, after having read some of the comments on this page, I'm not exactly sure if it's worth my time to leave a statement. First of all, I'm not about to defend anything that I had the privellage of presenting Friday night, for all that was shown was a collaborative effort of many people, all aimed at demonstrating what potential uses could be, or could have been a part of developing the balloon track. The fact that it is the obligation of city officials to allow citizens to excersize their rights, especially when it comes to publically owned land (which of course is what the balloon tract used to be, and what it continues to be zoned as). I don't know how many of you commenting on this blog have ever given a public presentation of controversial creative ideas, but it's not an easy things by a long shot. And I certainly haven't been refered to as a "kid" since my early twenties. Doing any kind of master planning is a very difficult and tricky thing. On one hand, I think it is important to allow any piece of land to be developed more slowly over a period of time, ensuring that uses can be tested thoroughly, and that an area's character and history really have a chance to develop, especially in regards to how its people are in relationship to it. As I stated at the presentation on Friday, what was shown was not a proposal for development, but a reminder of the fact that a developer, not the public officials, instigated a planning process. And I suppose there will be those within the Eureka community who only want to complain, and not to take the responsibility of seriously looking at how questions of planning are approached.

And by the way, I have built things, even thought I am not a licensed architect yet.

In my view, as a practicing designer, architectural design should not be limited to only those who hold licenses. Some of the greatest designs ever conceived were developed by "non-licensed" people. Does anyone remember the story of the outcast patent clerk who changed our view of the universe?

 
At 7:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you expect to float your idea of an aquarium past all those who oppose the traffic Home Depot would create?

1.8 million people divided by an average of 4 people per car=.45 million cars. I think you're going to piss people off a little.

 
At 7:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:42 Eric

Sorry it isn't publicly OWNED land. The Balloon Track is in PRIVATE HANDS now-the Arkleys BOUGHT it.

The Balloon Track is ZONED PUBLIC for the time being.

I have news for you: The city council or the new city council will have to weigh the facts in the request to rezone this property. And since this isn't the first time the Arkleys have put together a project they probably did and are doing a good job of putting together their pitch for the zone change.

PS. THAT IS WHY you haven't heard anything about the figures for out of town Home Depot sales that are leaking OUR tax dollars to other counties! If this information were released too early it would dilute the punchline.

 
At 10:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the figures for out of town Home Depot sales that are leaking OUR tax dollars to other counties!

This assertion is simply false. The City of Eureka has a massive surplus of sales, zero leakage. The County as a whole has very little sales leakage, only about 7%.

 
At 11:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon - 10:42 Are you simple minded or what? Zero leakage. Please use your meds as directed. The pink polka dot elephants are coming for you.

 
At 11:41 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Yes Eric, that is the sentiment for most people who have moved here in the past 20 years longing for their own private Idaho.

Been to Idaho. I don't want an Idaho.

And you wouldn't have enjoyed the old Holmes Eureka/Pacific Lumber mill site that sat there empty for God knows how many years before General Growth took a risk and developed the site into the Bayshore Mall. But I'm sure your environmental cronies would have found a way to sue them to try to put a stop to it....if you had been around.

Well, I don't know anything about the environmental issues involved, but what I've heard is that it killed a coastal highway proposal that would have redirected 101 along the waterfront. Mind you, I don't know that I would have liked that idea either. I would like to know if local businesses were shut down following the completion of the mall, and if so, how many.

As to McKinleyville, I don't know anything about it so I can't say what I would have opposed.

1.8 million people divided by an average of 4 people per car=.45 million cars. I think you're going to piss people off a little.

Perhaps. But Monterey seems to have metabolized it pretty well.

 
At 8:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:24, yes, zero leakage. Leakage does not mean that no one ever shops outside of the area. Of course people do! By that definition every community would have retail leakage.

"Leakage" is the term to describe a net loss of sales to other areas. In other words, are actual sales receipts below what would be expected for the community? This was specifically addressed by the Bay Area Economics study in 1999. The BAE study found that "Actual total retail sales in Humboldt Couny appear to be relatively in balance with predicted expenditures." The study also found that "Eureka itself clearly has sales above what would be supported by its own population base inevery category."

So, yes, Eureka has no retail leakage.

Again, every single one of the economic arguments to support the so-called Marina Center are based upon thin-air. There is no data to support the assertion that this project will provide jobs, will increase net tax revenues, or will stir the economy. The real facts and data all argue against this project.

 
At 9:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:41 Waterfront Hwy Project? You must be kidding! The Coastal Commission is still shooting that down; the Costco Store didn't have anything to do with it. You need to read the papers more!

 
At 9:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:42 "The City of Eureka has a massive surplus of sales, zero leakage. The County as a whole has very little sales leakage, only about 7%"

Before the dawn of the Bayshore Mall, we took treks to Santa Rosa to buy school clothes for the kids (loss of sales tax to Eureka).

Now that they are grown and have moved out of the area for better paying jobs (where have you heard this before), we have to travel to see the grandkids. Hence, we spend money at Santa Rosa and Sacramento restaurants, shop at Home Depots in Rhonert Park and Sacramento or Roseville (loss of sales tax to Eureka).

Maybe not much sales tax-last year we only purchased about $3800 worth of merchandise out of town.
But it adds up.

 
At 9:47 AM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

I've heard of people driving to Redding to shop at WalMart, but I can't believe that's cost-effective with today's gas prices. Then again, we have an arithmatic-challenged population or the lottery wouldn't be so popular.

 
At 10:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

eric it wouldn't be cost effective to shop at Redding WalMart unless you were already going to Redding-which some find excuses to do.

This area could use more recreation and things for people to do--

I called the City of Eureka to ask about your assertion that Bayshore Mall (BM) stopped a waterfront hwy project. Answer:
"In essence the Bayshore Mall did kill the adopted freeway route"

 
At 10:57 AM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

I called the City of Eureka to ask about your assertion that Bayshore Mall (BM) stopped a waterfront hwy project. Answer:
"In essence the Bayshore Mall did kill the adopted freeway route"


Yeah, several people had told me that, and well, it makes sense given the physical reality.

 
At 11:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bayshore Mall is also putting a kink in the plans for a Waterfront Drive extension. It is so tight behind the mall that Waterfront Drive gets pushed into wetlands and the Coastal Commission will never let it happen.

 
At 11:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, it was Bayshore Mall plus the city's own new (at that time) sewer plant, both of which were built on top of a formerly approved rerouting of 101.

 
At 3:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sad to see the Coastal Commission taking such a hard stand on the Waterfront Drive extension. The city needs help with traffic congestion adn all other remedies are out of this world expensive.

 
At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's simple, you go to Home Depot in Santa Rose (or redding, you get your stuff and you rent a U-Haul trailer and bring it all back, and you still save money. While you're ther, you can go to Cost Plus, Pier One (thought they're here now) and any number of other places. French Doors, windows, tiles, furniture, big glazed pots - big savings. Mathematically challenged? Hah! Not only that, better selection, more choices, well worth the drive.

 
At 4:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And maybe we can build a few more mini storage units to put all that crap in!!

 
At 5:20 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Well, I was talking about Wal-Mart in Redding, but if I was going to drive to Santa Rosa I'd go to Friedmans which actually has more choices and better deals than Home Depot. But I wouldn't drive 3 hours to shop - for anything.

When I'm down there however, I do enjoy shopping at Cost Plus. When I lived there I'd get half my Christmas shopping done there.

 
At 5:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

French Doors, windows and tiles don't go in mini-storage, silly, that's for all the Dollar Store stuff. Keeps it out of the landfill.

 
At 5:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The only people I know who shop at the Dollar Store are teachers, but anyway you can only remodel a house so many times. It's all the other stuff, cast offs from all over the house from repeatedly shopping and shopping til you can't walk around. Look at any open garage door in Humboldt County. Shopping is the only recreation!

One thing I noticed is that the Eureka Reporter has that great yardsale map and my last rummage sale brought in over $1800. That was a first.

5:32 Make donations of anything useable-you can write it off for much more than you can get at a yardsale.

I just posted about the mini storages because they are popping up all over the place and its a bad sign that we already have too much stuff!

P.S. I do have an extra set of French Doors-Redwood ones in storage, and a box of tiles or two and a couple windows. I throw out the Dollar Store stuff from the teacher.

 
At 6:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, Fred, what's the record for most posts in a thread on your blog?

 
At 6:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The proliferation of mini-storage units is the result of all that infill regulations on developers, who have to reduce the lot size to please planning, so there's no room for a barn or an oubuilding to store extra stuff - that combined with an excess of stuff, so much the Salvation Army is too "blessed" to take any more donations. None of those problems are caused by Home Depot.

The Dollar Store is the best place for kids party favors, gift bags, shower curtains, and tealights.

 
At 12:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just throw my old crap in the gully.

 
At 5:37 AM, Blogger Fred said...

What's the record number of posts here? Probably whatever the number is on this thread.

 
At 8:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:32.....I found a great place to dump my old crap. In that big open field down between Schmidbauer Lumber and the boat basin. It's not being used for anything. We used to dump it all along the waterfront down at the foot of F street until they had to go and fix it up.

 
At 8:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:34 $1 for a shower curtain-I think not.

12:32 Show some class and learn where the dump is-you can be a lowlife by saving it all up in your front yard until dump day.

8:14 I have a pile of your old tires-come and get them or I will hunt you down like a rat across the tundra!

 
At 10:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

shower curtain liners, not curtains, sorry, they'er a buck as ooposed to four bucks at KMart

 
At 10:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

CREG forum a blueprint for successful community development
My Word
Eureka Times Standard
Article Launched:10/18/2006 04:30:25 AM PDT

By Larry Evans

It appears that the Times-Standard editorial staff [”Balloon Tract: Time to work together to get something done,” Oct. 14] formed their opinion on how to proceed with the question of Balloon Tract zoning without bothering to attend CREG's “Imagine the Possibilities” forum on community based planning.

If they had been there, they would understand that the city has no obligation to accept the zoning change being requested by Mr. Arkley's Security National company. They would see that a return to the Master Planning process that the citizens won in the 1999 Measure J fight will lead to a plan that we can all be proud of and that will help our community to move forward to accomplishing the universal goal of bringing this derelict property into productive use.

If the editors had been in the audience of the packed Friday night community meeting, they would have understood that the artificial choice of big-box or blight being dictated to the community is both unacceptable and unwise. They would comprehend the fact that the lengthy process required to start building on the site might be considerably shortened if we were able to avoid the inevitable protracted conflict that is likely if the community is strong-armed into a plan we are told we should like because it is what Mr. Arkley wants. And if they had a sense of history, they would see that the real move backward was the move to regurgitate the big-box mall project rejected by 61 percent of voters in 1999.

But since the editors apparently formed their opinion without the benefit of actually seeing firsthand the important information being brought to the community by CREG, let me share what the experts we were able to provide explained -- that decisions on zoning are reserved for the community through our elected leaders.

They would have learned that it takes the kind of strong, courageous political leadership that Eureka has been lacking for far too long. They would understand that with a full cleanup and a zoning plan generated from the ground up, this highly significant land at the heart of our city would be a prize any developer would jump at -- a 40-acre piece of California waterfront with a bright future.

Finally, if they had visited their dictionary, they might have learned that “envision” is a verb and “vision” is a noun, but that having a vision for a community is the right and responsibility of the whole community, not just an elitist clique of developers.

CREG (Citizens for Real Economic Growth) does not have any specific objection to Mr. Arkley being the developer who will rehabilitate the Balloon Tract. We would even go so far as to say that we are in favor of a local developer such as Mr. Arkley handling this project. What we are opposed to is having any developer trample our rights. Dictating the zoning mix that we must choose without a proper participatory planning process up front does just that.

Insofar as CREG is perceived to be critical of Mr. Arkley, it is because he is the one currently attempting to dictate to us. When it was Wal-Mart dictating to us, we opposed that as well. I guess at least 61 percent of us living in Eureka are kind of ornery that way -- we don't care to be dictated to, no matter who it is or how much money they throw around.

We believe in the principles and values of democracy above the value of undue influence. Some people would call that good old-fashioned Americanism. It is a lesson most of us want our representatives at all levels of government to learn from.

For anyone who wants a free DVD of the “Imagine the Possibilities” forum, we will be posting a request form on the CREG website (www.SaveEurekaWaterfront.org) along with other information.


Larry Evans is a spokesman for CREG.

 
At 11:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

More propaganda, courtesy of the Times Slanderd

 
At 12:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why not get a free DVD and see for yourself?

 
At 2:12 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

anon 10:46 - Think html tag links. This is what they're for.

 
At 3:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

199...

 
At 3:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

200! Just had to do that.

 

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