Thursday, April 26, 2007

Civil Disobedience?

I guess I'm pretty naive. I've never understood things like this. People have an issue so they go out and get arrested to show how strongly they feel about it. I don't get it. I suppose it might get a little more attention than if they just hold a demonstration and wave signs, but I'm not so sure.

I remember some gal posted a message on the West Coast Libertarians Yahoo Group a year or two ago. She was asking for advice on what to do as she'd been arrested trespassing on a military base as part of an anti- war demonstration. I guess the judge really hammered her in court although I forget the exact details.

I didn't know what to tell her except to say she should have thought of that before she purposely crossed the line to get arrested. I also suggested that she would have made just as much impact in getting her message across if she'd have stayed on the other side of the line and not gotten arrested.

She didn't seem to understand that. I guess that's the counter- culture thing to do: Get arrested for acts of civil disobedience- whether it accomplishes anything or not?

37 Comments:

At 10:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brilliant lot, those folks.They really furthered their cause.

 
At 10:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not that they don't have a point, but what happened here is just plain counterproductive. These kids need to go to school, get credentialed and get into positions where they can influence policy on a state or preferably national level. Harping on the city of Arcata will go nowhere, the city can't even maintain it's road infrastructure let alone single handedly solve homelessness.

Unfortunately they have come off as assholes, and now some of them are assholes with arrest histories.

 
At 10:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you feel about the civil disobedience of the homeless n arcata as stated in todays ER?

 
At 11:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was a publicity stunt that backfired worse than they could have imagined. It ably demonstrated how disruptive a campground would be in Arcata. It will never happen now.

 
At 11:52 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now there camped out on Arcata city hall.

 
At 12:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

These knuckleheads sure know how to destroy any chance of a campground.

Step 1. Piss off neighbors and councilmembers and disrupt activities at the D Street Neighborhood Center and City Hall.

Step 2. ???

Step 3. Free campground appears!

What are they smoking?

 
At 1:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The county never should have fucked with the homeless out on the south spit...

 
At 3:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They need a job. Earn their own way. Buy a house. Then they can let some homeless guy camp on their lawn if they want to.

This was just a small group of people and a few onlookers on the opposite side of the street, blown way out of proportion. You need a wide angle lens to show just how few people were there. There were more cop cars and cameraas then faux homeless guys contorting thier faces for the cameras.

 
At 5:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its a right to peacefully demonstrate to promote a political cause. Whether this action will have any effect is a matter of opinion. But I can sympathize that from the protester's position, you can't lose what you don't have. Many people camp illegally in this area every night, so the demonstration wasn't about the ability to camp. I think they wanted to show that campers can manage their areas well and don't necessarily have bad behavior. But they didn't have a good plan to deal with the inevitable "eviction".

 
At 5:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well they do have bad behavior. They are young,healthy, lazy,unproductive,drug users,and bums. Why should this community,this society enable such a negitive life choice. It is a choice for most in this area. Worst of all is the support structure of poverty pimps who are making a good living and making poverty a dead end growth industry. It all takes away from the support structure we want for the truly disadvantaged.

 
At 5:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nappy headed hos.

 
At 6:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well put 5:40. Many of the homeless choose to be homeless because they want to be "free". Free to be, Free to do, Free to go, Free of the chains that the "man" puts on them. I say get a job!

 
At 6:34 PM, Blogger Fred said...

It's not always that easy to get a job, although I'll agree that some really don't want jobs.

 
At 7:11 PM, Blogger ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ said...

fred: "It's not always that easy to get a job...."
You'd better qualify that by adding: "in Humboldt county". There are millions of jobs going begging in other areas.

 
At 7:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What needs to be exposed is that most all of these "protesters" are not from Arcata, or anywhere around here. They were brought in by the usual suspects, i.e. Kim Starr and her ilk, and were paid to sit there like the poor oppressed children they claim to be. Someone should investigate where all their funding comes from. They do more damage to their alleged "cause" than good. No one disputes the need to help those that are truly needy. Maybe they should be working at the Service Center or the Rescue Mission.

 
At 7:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Propose a legal campground with an illegal demonstration. Classic. If this is what we can expect, we don't want 'em. Let them vacation in Portland for a change.

 
At 9:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Folks, the campground already happened years ago. Was it 96? 98? On the south jetty a homeless city was set up, complete with streets, organization, bathrooms.....

It didn't work folks! First of all, it wasnt their property. Second, it was a drain on emergency services. third it was literally a health hazard!

How many of these people were born in humboldt, or became homeless while living in Humboldt County, or more specifically, Arcata? I am willing to bet less than 10% if any of them at all. If you build a campground you will just be increasing the homeless population as they come up from Santa Monica, Santa Cruz and San Francisco.

The City of Arcata cannot solve the homeless problem! That can only happen on a national or state level folks!

And on the national and state level their is only welfare for the wealthy! Welcome to America!

 
At 11:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Adtually,Arcata can solve this problem with the click of a lock. When you lock the door on the endevor and pass the word that panhandeling,pissing in the allies,stealing,drug dealing will be peosecuted these undeserving,selfish,leaches will move on to the next city that sets it's self up as a victum. Then we can adequitly help our friends that are in need. Not really that complicated.

 
At 8:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You gotta love the senseless HSU students protesting anything involving The Man. I take great solace in their predictability.

 
At 12:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I were King of Humboldt, if you chose to sit on the corner and beg, sleep under the over pass, or deficate in public. I would give you free room and board at camp Centerville, (the old navy base). There you could live in a clean smoke and alcohol free invironment. You could work in the community garden, or help weave baskets etc. ( each to his ability).
After about six months you would have the choice to return to socity, or remain and help run the place.

 
At 12:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

People tried living in communes a few decades ago.

 
At 12:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I say we put a large cyclone and concrete fence around samoa and turn that into Humboldt's detention facility/ghetto. It already looks the part. We can have them sort out our garbage as well as tend gardens and weave baskets. But they should not be released!

 
At 4:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When is something going to be done about the intimidating group of folks loitering at city hall?

 
At 5:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They will disappear during the night....

 
At 5:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is still a badge of honor for some folks to be arrested for civil disobedience...I was actually proud of one of my son's friends for giving support to the protesters by bringing supplies in for their comfort. It was pretty well organized by some standards and depending on who you asked.

Whether it made a better case is honestly debatable-but you have to admit it did focus attention on the homeless problem in another way. I think it really depends on how much you give thought to the situation. People who don't think much about it were awakened, some like the previous posters have a right to say it drew negative attention.

I agree that the South Spit wasn't a solution, but then it was rather loosely thrown together. Showers, laundry, proximity to services etc would have made all the difference.

 
At 5:43 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

I think it sucks that the cops took their personal belongings and trashed them.Disagree with the protesters if you want,but it's messed up that they had their personal belongings destroyed,there's no need for that.I'd be pissed too.

 
At 6:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're counting cardboard signs as personal belongings now? OOooooK. But first provide proof of your claim.

 
At 7:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What a mess it was when the lowlife unmentionalbes inhabited the South Spit. That was a disaster and a mess that cost the county hundreds of thousands. Good ridence...........

 
At 7:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't believe the lies being put out by the idiot protesters. No way the cops destroyed their stuff. They're not gonna fall for that trick. Every crappy backpack is there somewhere. Just like that big mouth spokeslady saying nobody told them they had to leave. The video and audio was on the news, and tons of other video cameras. And if they didn't know they had to leave why were they sitting there with their arms all locked together? Residents of Arcata should either be ashamed, really pissed off, or both, at these jackasses.

 
At 8:58 PM, Anonymous sorry, fred said...

i am truly sorry fred, but it sure looks like your readership has a lot of mean-spirited hate-mongers, and not just that moon-job cop weirdo. Or maybe it's just one person with a lot of spare time. oh well.

i hope one of those who got arrested sues the city of arcata and the po'lice department (Jones v Los Angeles, April 2006, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals).

 
At 10:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred I think you've got quite a few sensible friends. I really hope one of those who got arrested will actually take some responsibility for there own life,get a job ,support the community ,a take a f#*#*#g bath.

 
At 2:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think if these kooks pull this shit again we should have the police wash them in pepper spray.

 
At 6:26 PM, Anonymous sorry, fred said...

wow...is your readership "libertarian"? Doesn't seem like it to me. Seems like they (or maybe just one techno-addicted individual) don't really support the notion of Liberty, or even governmentally-guaranteed "rights." Perhaps they focus a little too much on the liberty of those with the most guns to trample on those without any guns. Is this your idea of Libertarianism as well? Should those who stand for individual Liberties support the Liberties of other individuals? This demonstration was about the Liberty to sleep in peace, even if you can't afford to pay whatever bills are demanded by the ruling class. This was NOT a demonstration about supposed liberty to harass people of even live off of welfare or handouts. Unfortunately, some of your visitors try to paint the picture that way. I wonder why?

Moon-job...are you out there? Maybe you can answer the question as to why these so-called libertarians are so anti-Liberty and insistant on distorting the issue at hand?

 
At 5:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:26 you are so wrong you will probable never understand. You sound like Tad. If you hadn't abused even the most liberal,whack-o of communities like Arcata the tide wouldn't be turning aganist your rip off of the true concept of liberty. Freedom and liberty come with a huge responsiblity attached. You must honor,cherish,and replenish it constantly. Tad you lazy ,self indulgent bastard no one,no concept,nothing owes you anything. It's just the opposite. Even the safty net of social security has a foundation rooted in work. WORK. It's real unlike your whinning Bull-Shit.

 
At 7:18 PM, Anonymous sorry, fred said...

well, the above comment pretty clearly illustrates all the points i was making.

the author tries to change the issue from Constitutional Rights (8th Amendment right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment - sleep deprivation in this case). The author tries to state the issue as being owed something from the governemt. How ridiculous! The folks doing this civil disobedience are asking to be left alone by the cops! - it is wingnuts like the author who demand that the cops "serve and protect" them by removing homeless people and their supporters from public spaces.

the author also tries to pick on tad and pigeon-hole the issue as if it was just tad's issue. What nonsense! Similar protests have been going on up and down the coast recently, from Olympia to Los Angeles.

Also, anyone who really knows tad knows that he is cetainly not lazy. But tad can speak for himself. the author of the offensive comment, on the other hand, has trouble forming even the basis for a logical argument.

As for which wy the tide is turning, well, we shall see...

 
At 7:20 PM, Anonymous sorry, fred said...

Oh, one last thing: the federal court is on the side of the protestors in this case.
see: Jones v Los Angeles, 9th Circ. Court of Appeals, April 2006

 
At 9:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tad is a lazy bum. The fact that these people are shitting on the people and government that tried,all be it foolishly to help them is proof positive that they are lazy bums. No one would close the places now closed if horrible abuses did not occur over and over. The publics kindness and generosity has been confused with some right to abuse. Again a hard fough social safty net"social security" is only possible because of work. Tad is a bum. He does work under the table often again a bum. He makes damn sure he's free of incumberances the rest of us maintain so he can use our roadways,eat our free food,wash in our bathrooms and cry the blues at how bad he's got it. He is a leech on a system that was set up those of us who care to take care of the mother with kids who's husband beat her and is in jail,just one of a 100 examples,untill she can get back on her feet. Tad is a bum because he is not contributing to help her. Live the life,I support your right to do that completly. There is not right you enjoy for anyone to carry your load for you. Tad and all who "CHOOSE" to live the life are bums. Were in for a real hard time if the courts enable this bull shit to continue. Who ever you are youare wrong if you think liberty is not with out responsibility.

 

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