Friday, January 18, 2008

Long Live The Stars And Bars?

I've said before I find all this supposed outrage over the flying of the confederate flag both annoying and silly.

The first time I saw it in the recent past that comes to mind was when the Eureka Reporter's editor, Glenn Franco- Simmons, wrote an editorial a year or two ago lambasting people who displayed such flags on their cars.

I must have missed the recent article in the Times- Standard on the brouhaha in Ferndale over some students at Ferndale High School flying confederate flags, but this gal, Rosie Schultz, gave me the heads up on that story in her well written My Word column published today.

Then, to my surprise, even Jim Garvey piped in with an anti- confederate flag letter to the editor in today's Times- Standard (can't find that letter online). His letter told us what a symbol of hate that flag is. That goes to show that just about everyone will try and take a politically correct stance at some time or another if only to show they care.

Even Sonoma County shares some of the controversy with this story appearing today in the Santa Rosa Press- Democrat about the Stars and Bars being flown by some students at Camarillo High School. Looks like some are planning a walkout there protesting that flag with others suggesting the school should ban display of politically incorrect flags.

Allow me to cross the line of political correctness once again.

I know some feel the Stars and Bars is a sign of, to paraphrase, "hatred and slavery". I'm sure some that fly that flag actually do fly it for such sentiments. I don't see the flag that way.

I see the flag as signifying, rebellion, as Rosie Shultz put it. I also see it as a sign of state's rights, independence and the right to secession. I guess I'm a rebel, at heart, so I kind of like the Stars and Bars. Long may it wave!


At 11:46 AM, Blogger Anon.R.mous said...

I can't believe that the guy pulled something off a car, that's crusin' for a assbeating if you ask me.

At 4:16 PM, Blogger The Boy Most Likely to ... said...

I could waste my time here trying to speak for the African American Community, whom surely have a different take on the Stars and Bars. Nope. I am going to resort to something that gets played out on the Jim Rome Show on 1340 am. It seems people from the North still love to show the South the scoreboard with regards to the Civil War:

North- 1

South- 0

"How's that working out for you there Stars and Bars?" - caller from the North.

AND this is a sports talk show!!!


At 4:31 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

If they weren't being flown all over in defiance of the civil rights movement, I'd agree that the flag symbolizes rebellion. You won't find many black southerners flying them.

However, there was a story during the 1988 Jesse Jackson campaign. He was invited to house parties where whites were embracing him and yet had confederate flags on their walls. He came out of the experience drawing much the same conclusions and though he opposes flying it above government buildings, he does have a nuanced view of the topic.

At 6:37 PM, Blogger ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ said...

The bottom line in this kerfuffle is that the display of a symbol can mean virtually whatever is in the mind of the displayer. Eric is correct that many who had historically displayed the so called Confederate battle flag (there were literally scores of different variations of them) were protesting what they viewed (rightly or wrongly) as Federal interference in state issues.

Since relocating to the South I have had occasion to discuss this flag issue with numerous locals of various ethnic and political persuasions. I have yet to encounter any individual who favors a return to either jim crow or slavery or who views the flag's display as a threat of such a regression. The display of the St. Andrews Cross battle flag is almost unanimously seen as a statement of rebellion much the same as is the display of the Gadsden serpent flag with the motto "Don't Tread on Me".

My "African American" next door neighbor (an Atlanta police officer) chuckles at the heat generated by this issue and states of those who continue to stir the racial pot as being financially invested in the politics of divisiveness.

If our society chooses to suppress the display of symbols which are "politically incorrect", then we in fact are subject to the thought police. A chilling but not inconceivable possibility.


At 10:31 PM, Anonymous righty tighty said...

" I kind of like the Stars and Bars. Long may it wave!"

So I kind of like the swastika. Long may it wave!

At 12:25 AM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Well, it's more than "politically correct" in the south. Some of the older black folk feel terrified when the flags go up. They associate it with trouble for them.

Personally, I wouldn't want to do something that has that affect on somebody.

At 12:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I encourage those interested in displaying the confederate flag to do so. It's easier when bigots identify themselves.

At 6:15 AM, Blogger ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ said...

Eric: "Some of the older black folk feel terrified when the flags go up...Personally, I wouldn't want to do something that has that affect on somebody."
Get real Eric. Reality is not an Oliver Stoned cinema script. "Personally" it is your right to do or refrain from doing whatever you choose as long as you injure no one else. To be offended is not equal to being injured (except of course for those who wish to control others).
10:31 PM is trying (lamely) to use irony but has hit on a truism. 12:26 AM has it absolutely right!

At 10:34 AM, Blogger Fred said...

Interesting that most of the comments on the Times- Standard web site regarding Rosie's My Word column seem positive. I would of expected a bit more in the way of accusing her of racism.

At 12:11 PM, Anonymous "Henchman of Justice" said...

Regarding secession........The Lakotah native american tribe is actively petitioning the federal government for a redress of grievences. They are attempting secession.

It has been reported that they no longer recognize treaties signed years ago because the Feds never lived up to the agreement. The Federal Government defaulted on the treaties and stole mineral rights, land, a culture and much more.

It has been reported that their soverign nation is being adversely affected by lies and deceit. The tribe has begun attaching liens onto properties which were a result from the defaulted upon treaty. There is much more information to this topic on-line.

Also, the State of Vermont is actively researching secession from the United States. Many of the reasons Vermont is becoming active in this topic are the same reasons Ron Paul is running for President.

Ron Paul understands that which is hurting America.
Ron Paul understands economic issues. Ron Paul understands Social issues.
Ron Paul understands Foreign Policy issues.
Ron Paul understands energy issues.
Ron Paul understands immigration issues.
Ron Paul understands Social Security issues.
Ron Paul understands medicare issues.
Ron Paul understands Domestic Policy issues.

Ron Paul just plain understands. Mr. Paul seems more Libertarian than Republican.

At 12:47 PM, Blogger Beachcomber said...

I agree that this girl wrote an awesome letter -- very well written. Some of her more snide remarks such as "usual traipsing around the school to do his borderline anal-retentive checkup" gave up an obvious disrespect for the administrator. I'm glad she clarified the situation since I came away from the original articles with an impression of Ferndale high bubbas but a point I missed that was brought to my attention was that the students "got" their flags, they didn't "go out and buy" flags. From that we might get the impression that many already had such things in their possession. Where would one even BUY a "stars and bars" on the left coast?

At 12:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You can buy the confederate flag from that flag seller on Broadway. He always has one prominently displayed.

At 1:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Eric as spokesman for some older black southerners. Now that is funny!

And Fred, if you're a rebel, then being a rebel ain't what it used to be.

At 5:53 PM, Anonymous Pamela Reece said...

Fred, I'm shocked at your anti-PC post! No wonder we can get along even though we're from different sides of the partisanships! Do you know how many times I have received criticism for my photo on my website?!? Why? In the background is a Confederate flag. I have to continually explain the protocol of displaying a Confederate flag. Which I always follow.

But hey, look at all the hits you're getting from such a "controversial" post!

At 6:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The proper protocol for displaying the Confederate Flag is for it to be draped over the coffin of a fallen Confederate soldier.

At 2:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I always viewed the Confederate flag as something of a red neck symbol that people used as a sign to show rebellion. Freedom of choice. But then one day in Ferndale at the fair I had the misfortune to see some boys from Ferndale take their confederate flag and wave it in the face of another teenager who just so happened to be of African American decent. Did they wave that flag in any other kids faces? No just the child who was minding her own business and had color. Now tell me, how is this acceptable?

At 3:25 PM, Blogger robash141 said...

Where can i get some Conferderate flag toilet paper?
I'd like to show the stars-n-bars some proper respect.

At 4:25 PM, Anonymous Pamela Reece said...

Coward (oops I meant anonymous),

You really should learn a little something about flags flown within the U.S. Yes, when a fallen Confederate Soldier was KIA, the Confederate flag was draped over their coffin, however that was during war-time. Not in this century and not since the all American Civil War veterans had died in combat. Although, many descendants of American Civil War Soldiers still request this tradition. It is out of respect to their heritage.

At 5:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did they all move to Ferndale?

At 10:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aren't you the same Pamela Reece who recently posted a note saying, "I am a Grass Roots Leader in Illinois for the GOP."

At 11:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pamela? 36 hours and no reply. Are you all right?

At 11:30 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Get real Eric. Reality is not an Oliver Stoned cinema script.

No, it's real feelings in real people. Whether you view their feelings as valid is irrelevant. They are the product of their experiences, and being raised black in the south, particularly during the first half of the 20th century, produced some very intense experiences - the like of which you and I will never understand.


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