Pedestrian Safety Depends On Pedestrians
Some discussion going on over at the Times- Standard article on traffic calming and Eureka's high accident rate. I was glad to see the police officer quoted point out that pedestrians are at fault in many accidents.
Seems to me the vast majority of car vs. pedestrian accidents could have been avoided had the pedestrian paid more attention to oncoming traffic. Can anyone think of one vehicle vs. pedestrian accident around here that could NOT have been prevented had the pedestrian been paying more attention?
I can only think of one that's close: A person I know got hit in a crosswalk while crossing on a green light. I believe the car turned into the crosswalk from behind her, but even in that case had she been paying closer attention to traffic she might have avoided being hit (I do check behind me when I cross the street).
That one might not be as clear cut as most. In nearly all cases I'm aware of, had pedestrians been looking for oncoming traffic, they could have avoided being hit, regardless of what the driver was doing.
Thus I'm very skeptical at traffic calming ideas. They'll likely just make things worse, making pedestrians feel even more safe than they really are. When pedestrians feel safe, they don't pay attention. As someone pointed out in the Santa Rosa Press- Democrat a while ago:
"It's easier for a pedestrian to see an oncoming car than it is for a driver to see a pedestrian."- Comment regarding collisions in Sonoma County
posted by Fred Mangels @ 8:39 AM
23 comments
23 Comments:
People need to cross the street from time to time, and with sections of 4th,5th,H and I streets having no signaled crossings at up to 9 blocks at a stretch,3 lanes each with heavy traffic at times, one has to be physically fit to cross with jumbled pattern traffic.
I was one of those "do gooders" that stopped for an elderly ped trying to cross on 4th street at a specially marked crossing, the other far lane stopped, but a driver in the center lane slowed,(could have easily made the stop) angrily sounded their horn at the crossing ped, yelled and continued to angrily sound their horn for two blocks afterwards. That type of driver attitude is not uncommon in Eureka, and it's a wonder why some peds act the way they do.
If a traffic signal is not a viable option, then a signaled ped crossing should be installed in the areas that have long stretches between stoplights. Lighted road makers along with flashing road signs are what I feel would be the most effective.
Traffic calming is a good thing, too many drivers in Eureka think that the streets are their personal expressway, and law enforcement cannot be everywhere to catch all the offenders. Plus law enforcement doesn't really start ticketing until a speed well above the posted limit has been reached, letting a number of drivers to regularly travel above the speed limit, making it that more difficult to cross a street,especially when it has three lanes.
Even when blaming pedestrians, instead of street design, why does Eureka have such a high pedestrian accident rate?
Is is that Eurekans are among the stupidest people in the state, or that Eureka's streets could be designed to be more safe? If you know anything about street design, the answer is clear.
"Henchman Of Justice" says,
Two incidents come to mind where the pedestrian really could not avoid at least the "attempt" has been two drivers in McKinleyville, one woman attempting to hit her ex-lover's new girlfriend 15 years her junior, while the second woman ran down her brother over some estranged family matters.(generalized from news stories only)
Often in Eureka, pedestrians cross in a way in order to get hit for whatever reasons complicated within their mindsets.
In Arcata, some bikers get hit for running the stop signs coming down the hill to the Plaza.
Last week in Arcata, driver comes to complete stop to a 4-way. Man on corner with fiddling toddler waves driver to go because fiddling child appeared to be a nuisance for male adult standing on sidewalk, not in street within painted crosswalk. After driver of vehicle proceeds, then all-of-a-sudden the adult with child enters crosswalk to start walking as if going to walk into the side passenegr door of the vehicle.
So yes, enough pedestrians are conniving m'fers or dummies with their heads up their "yee haw". - HOJ
Ps. still wondering why the dude that got killed on HWY 101 crossing at Sunset Avenue in Arcta after dark was even in the vicinity at HWY 101? What was the reason, "Drugs, alcohol, laziness to walk in the "legal areas", shroom hunting, etc...?"
To point the blame at pedestrian mindset, also needs to look at the driver mindset as well. Just look at the three car tag team pile up between two unlicensed drivers in Eureka several weeks back. 50+mph on a 25 mph street, one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see that all peds are not completely to blame for their personal demise in Eureka.
Judging by the removal of the bushes in the Arcata 101 median, I'd say that the person killed crossing 101 was camping out in the median.
To point the blame at pedestrian mindset, also needs to look at the driver mindset as well. Just look at the three car tag team pile up between two unlicensed drivers in Eureka several weeks back.
There's certainly some dangerous drivers but even in cases like that an alert pedestrian should be able to get out of the way.
I was one of those "do gooders" that stopped for an elderly ped trying to cross on 4th street at a specially marked crossing,...
I appreciate your trying to be courteous, but I'd suggest stopping like that actually puts those pedestrians at risk. Two fairly well reported accidents in Eureka- one involving a fatality- were caused in part by do- gooders, although you might argue it was through no fault of their own, at least legally.
The guy that got killed by the Co-Op on 4th street was a direct result of two cars stopping but a third one that didn't. Since the two cars stopped for him, he felt safe in crossing the street without looking for additional traffic. The third car that didn't stop hit and killed him.
Same with the girl that recently got hit by the high school. Two cars stopped. A third didn't. Luckily, she and her friend saw the car at the last second and didn't get completely smashed.
In either of those cases, had the cars not stopped, the pedestrians would have hopefully waited until the street was clear and crossed safely.
Then again, I've seen time and time again where pedestrians look once, if at all, and just cross the street regardless of traffic, just assuming drivers will see them and stop.
I'm sure some will point to the driver in the Co- Op fatality speeding. That may be true. Even so, had the guy been looking for traffic he likely would have seen the car coming and stayed out of its way. The stopped cars helped in his feeling that he was safe and didn't have to check further.
Fred, you didn't come into this world with a set of buick keys in your hand. Right now our streets are for cars ONLY, there is no serius attempt whatsoever to include alternative transportation. I would hope in the future there is more consideration for those of us who use walking as the main transportation. This is highly unusual for a libertarian to take your stance. Why don't we fly airplanes 5 ft off the ground on 5th street? Stupid government says I can't fighting my freedom.
I would hope in the future there is more consideration for those of us who use walking as the main transportation..
Seems to me it's the efforts to make walking safer that has created the mentality in pedestrians that makes them less safe because they become more careless.
This is highly unusual for a libertarian to take your stance..
I hardly think so. Promoting individual responsibility is part of what being a libertarian is all about. Not coming up with government solutions that might exacerbate the problem and make people less safe.
Right... an alert pedestrian will get out of the way of a 50mph speeder on a residential street.
What about an elderly person? A deaf person? A person in a wheelchair? A person with any sort of impairment whatsoever? Sometimes Fred, you're a total dick.
....."I appreciate your trying to be courteous, but I'd suggest stopping like that actually puts those pedestrians at risk. Two fairly well reported accidents in Eureka- one involving a fatality- were caused in part by do- gooders, although you might argue it was through no fault of their own, at least legally."......
Fred, I not going to discontinue my practice of being a "do gooder" when I'm behind the wheel of an auto. No pedestrian has been injured or killed do to my stopping for them. The Co OP ped fatality was due to a driver traveling 20 to 30 mph over the speed limit and changed lanes to bypass the two stopped vehicles, the ped didn't see the motorist until it was too late. Put the blame on the speeding driver, not the other parties involved, freeway speeds belong on the freeway, not downtown Eureka.
You keep pointing to pedestrian inattentiveness as the root cause, where's the driver in many of these incidents, either off stoned on some narcotic, on some super star race driver delusions of grandeur, or thinking of anything but what's in front of them.
One of my co-workers learned quickly of what it is like to be a pedestrian in Eureka when he had to walk to work for several days while his vehicle was in the shop for repairs, to the point that they will be renting a vehicle next time their vehicle goes down.
So on personal responsibility issue your siding with the driver of a car rather than a pedestrian? What planet do you live on? This is the sort of bullshit fake liberalism that is actually conservitism. I see you at home in a red state. Have you walked anywere recently?
the law states if you are crossing the street in a sidewalk cars have to stop. Drive according to the law or dont drive at all. The libertarian view of things is forget any laws, that will certainly keep people from walking anywere. How are we supposed to get around if we don't have $$ for SUV were going to need to survive your demolition derby to go to visit family?
Right... an alert pedestrian will get out of the way of a 50mph speeder on a residential street.
Yep. If someone's going that fast a block or two down the street, a pedestrian should easily see (or hear it) and be able to get out of the way. If it's closer than that, any sane person wouldn't put foot on the street.
As far as the disabled, they are always at a disadvantage. More laws to try to protect them are likely to just make them feel bolder in crossing the street and end up getting them killed.
So on personal responsibility issue your siding with the driver of a car rather than a pedestrian?.
I don't think I'm siding with anybody. I'm just saying the ultimate responsibility for the pedestrian's safety is the pedestrian. You can pass all the laws you want. People still run stop signs and lights. Everybody loses their attention at some point or time. Accidents happen and. That's just the way it is. Pedestrians have to keep that in mind. Making them feel safer isn't helping them.
Give me an example of a car vs. pedestrian collision where it couldn't have been avoided if the pedestrian was paying more attention- whether the driver was doing something illegal, or not.
About the only real example of that I can think of is a driver ending up on the sidewalk for some reason and hitting someone or a group. Are more laws going to stop things like that from happening?
the law states if you are crossing the street in a sidewalk cars have to stop..
So what? Sometimes they don't. That's the kind of thing more and more people think and they assume everybody will notice them and stop. That's a problem cause it doesn't work that way. That's why the pedestrian needs to be responsible for his own safety.
The libertarian view of things is forget any laws,....
First time I've heard that.
How are we supposed to get around if we don't have $$ for SUV...
I walk places in town on occasion and enjoy it, but I pay attention to my surroundings, especially when crossing streets.
Only law abiding people fallow laws and we have enough of them alreaty the problem is there is no accountability but what do you expect from a culture were even the president Can get up infront of the whole nation and lie though his teeth and not be held to account for it I voted for Obama the first time and I'm man enough to say I got bamboosold we need to stop depending on the government and as a nation learn to wipe our own asses
The hit and run joggers on old arcata road.
The hit and run joggers on old arcata road.
That's a good one, but I would think if one were prudent, they wouldn't be jogging on Old Arcata Road at any time, never mind during darkness.
Good example, though, of a situation where someone might not be able to get out of the way.
I believe that people should be free to walk wherever they please and have the freedom to do so without a heightened state of awareness.
I do appreciate that your indended goal is safety for everyone, thank you for starting this discussion.
Craig,
The example of mindsets you offered was of an incident involving no pedestrians, but anyhow, drivers are stupid m'fer's too, no doubt, especially when they stop ill advisedly when they legally do not have too. Not too mention lap dances by the driver's dog, mobile devices, paying more attention to the music or passengers than the road, etc...
Over-population fills the planet with stupid people. - HOJ
"Henchman Of Justice" says,
Craig - bushes came out maybe due to a median barier project, or maintenance issues, etc...
Anonymous said this Anonymous said...
Fred, you didn't come into this world with a set of buick keys in your hand. Right now our streets are for cars ONLY, there is no serius attempt whatsoever to include alternative transportation. I would hope in the future there is more consideration for those of us who use walking as the main transportation. This is highly unusual for a libertarian to take your stance. Why don't we fly airplanes 5 ft off the ground on 5th street? Stupid government says I can't fighting my freedom.
Response: If the laws were actually enforced more upon bad drivers, jaywalkers (even at controlled intersections), bikers, etc... then safety would be much better. To say that our road systems is all about the almight gas combustible transport vehicle is not inaccurate, BUT TO IMPLY PEDESTRIANS have nothing is lunacy.
Now if people are stupid, then maybe that is why Arcata elected officials feel compeled to have their public works department erect signage that says to bikers entering city limits, "Bike friendly town" because bikers must be too stupid to see painted bike lanes and symbols. - HOJ
"Henchman Of Justice" says,
A great example about enforcement of laws is what the county is attempting to do to legalize marijuana permitting processes. When the board of supes and county counsel go back and forth on "how this or how that", Davina harkens back to enforcement.
HOJ just laughs because "enforcement" is one of the key political words that IS FAKE! Ya see, government officials get their schemes "passed" by FAKE PROCLAMATIONS THAT ENFORCEMENT WILL DO THE JOB NEEDED.
Problem is, enforcement is as typical as a "Blue Moon" on the last day of the millenia.
1) TPZ fear mongor types (like when Mark Lovelace ran his first campaign for supervisor) used enforcement as the "calling card", but ever since elected, a full-on denial of the very laws that could actually help to enforce the laws.
2) Occupy movement at the county courthouse and the inevitable silly ordinance that was manifested by the very same "pro law enforcement aficianados". Yet, instead of using perfectly effective existing laws to curb the Occupy problems, the schemer supervisors decided to waste more time and more tax dollars making-up words on paper that meant NOTHING!
3) GPU process snafu examples like Hee Haw, Tooby Ranch, etc....ya, like law enforcement did a bang-up job, rock 'em, knock 'em and sock 'em result AFTER law enforcement "fingered around in the dark" leading-up to crunchtime.
Enough examples show that "enforcement of laws" is abdicated often by Humboldt County leaders in both the county and various cities and towns. - HOJ
The Chp should now be called the RCA revenue calection agency did you know in several stats they are now doing randem revenue enhancement check points these or like dui check points but instead they are looking for bold tires broken lights ext.
They used to do that in California. They stopped doing them back in the late 70s, I believe. I know I got stopped at least once when I lived in Southern CA and once up here.
They'd place the checkpoints somewhere you wouldn't see them until you were right on them. The one I got stopped at in Eureka was in front of the PG&E building on Myrtle Avenue. If you were coming from the east you wouldn't see it until you rounded the curve and couldn't avoid it.
I recall they took some heat for one they had at the north freeway onramp as you leave C.R. In that one, though, they just pulled cars over. They'd have their cars lined up and pull over as many cars as they could as they left the college, the thinking being poor students would be more likely than other folks in having cars not up to speed.
That didn't last long after all the heat they took.
They'd check your driver's license, lights, horn and stuff like that. Hated them, but won't be surprised if they start them up again.
The real solution is to have a Democrat bumper sticker on y'ere vehicle, pull across two lanes sideways in an effort to block traffic and let the ped_equestrian git a good run at crossin'. Done good. Git home and have sume chow.
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