Sunday, March 30, 2008

An Anti- Islam Movie

I've said before I opposed the invasion of Iraq from the get- go. I also oppose proposals to attack Iran and other Arab countries absent better reasons than I've heard so far. However, I'm not a fan of the muslim culture.

You may have heard of this 16 minute film against Islam that a guy in the Netherlands produced. I'll go ahead and do my part for free speech if only because the muslims have been threatening pretty much anyone who has had anything to do with this film with death.

Regardless of the contents of the film, the death threats alone sound like reason enough to me to post it here. Credit to the Nobody's Business blog for inspiring me to join this particular free speech movement. I encourage others to do the same.


At 3:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hard to view, but thank you anyway. This is one set of facts we Americans had better recognize very soon.

At 4:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not an anti-Islam movie. It's a defense of Western Civilization against the most recent totalitarian threat.

At 5:41 PM, Blogger Anon.R.mous said...


I am saddened that you didn't see it on live leak. I still have it linked to live leak for the death threat letter that forced them to remove it.

At 6:37 PM, Blogger ΛΕΟΝΙΔΑΣ said...

For tle latest muzzie high jinks go to Gates of Vienna daily.

At 8:06 PM, Blogger Rose said...

In their own words. Anti women, anti Jew, anti gay, anti freedom of speech, anti freedom - killing gays, mutilating women, bombing buses, honor killings...

At 7:23 AM, Blogger Rose said...

At 8:06, I was referring to what the muslim clerics say in the movie, NOT to λεονιδας and the Gates Of Vienna - one of the difficulties when you can't see who commented before you :)

Live Leak pulled this movie after being threatened, You Tube has apparently pulled it, Nobody's Business, who you got it from says he got it from Google who has not yet caved in to pressure.

In this country where we tolerate a crucifix in a cup of urine as art, and freedom of expression, why would we tolerate censorship because of this criticism of a murderous, hate-filled, intolerant religion?

Encourage Google to hold the line. If you care about free speech, post the video, as Fred has, and Anon.R.mous has, and tons of others have!

At 8:26 AM, Blogger Steve Lewis said...

Where are the pictures of children strafed by F-16 Israeli jets? Or the children blown to pieces by Israeli cluster bombs? Or the Iraqi kids killed as collateral damage?

As long as Westerners keep showing only the Muslim atrocities without showing WHY they happen, i.e, as the hatred response of millions of exploited Muslims used as target practice for US oil corporate-led American forces.

I look at this with the same revulsion I had when I kept seeing this US army clip of some poor Muslim slob blown to bits on camera .

My point is--war is hell but don't think by choosing sides that you've chosen good over evil.

At 9:50 AM, Blogger Rose said...

I disagree, Stephen. We have shown that we are willing to live in peace with all denominations. That alone makes us the good guys. But there are far more examples of the good we do. And it is not healthy for us to ignore what the Muslim religion is doing, and has been doing to the men, women, and children of their own religion, their own countries, their own towns, their own communities. We who "want our MTV" have to be horrified when men are killed in Afghanistan by the Taliban for simply playing a musical instrument, that musicians have to bury their instruments in the sane to avoid persecution and death.

We, who believe in women's rights, should be horrified that women are not allowed to go to school or hold jobs under Taliban rule, that women are mutilated, that women are shot in the soccer stadiums, that honor killings are glorified and sanctioned, that women are not allowed to show their faces, and are thus dehumanized in the extreme.

When you hear the President or Iran say there are no gays in his country, and this man in his movie, Fitna is showing you the headlines from his country, gays being killed, thrown off bridges... we who believe in equal rights should say something.

And we who believe in free speech should not take it lightly that these people riot in the streets over cartoons, and threaten and shut down the internet viewing of a film like this.

Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

There's no question who is good and who is evil.

At 9:53 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

That wasn't my point in posting this video, Steve. For the most part I was just participating in some free speech activism, if you will. Muslims threaten anyone who criticizes their religion with death (the same can't be said of the jews) and the posting was my way protesting that.

That said, yes, the producer of the film was trying to make a point about how bad Muslims are, or could be. He also makes the point that murder and lack of respect for other people is part of the religion on which Muslims base their lives. I'm not sure the same could be said of the jews, either.

If you have some video on hand of jews, or other westerners, calling for killing of Muslims for criticizing judaism, I'm sure we'd all be interested in seeing it.

At 10:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obviously no one here has ever wondered why "Western Civilization" thinks it has the right to shove it's beliefs down the throats of any other civilization. The religion of Muslims is Islam and Islam is an all-inclusive way of life for many people. People who believe in Islam want nothing to do with the current immoral, anti-Christian, anti-Jew and anti-Islam "Western Civilzation".

The above is in response to these posts:

"It's not an anti-Islam movie. It's a defense of Western Civilization against the most recent totalitarian threat."
"In their own words. Anti women, anti Jew, anti gay, anti freedom of speech, anti freedom - killing gays, mutilating women, bombing buses, honor killings..."
"I disagree, Stephen. We have shown that we are willing to live in peace with all denominations. That alone makes us the good guys."

At 4:55 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Are we shoving our beliefs on anyone? I think we are remarkably tolerant. We let them go on killing and mutilating their own people because it their country their affair, their religion, their business. But what if we did? Would it hurt them if they adopted our ways? Freedom to speak, freedom to choose your own life partner, tolerance of differing religions, tolerance of different lifestyles - a melting pot. I guess you'd prefer that a woman, a teacher, can be threatened with death for allowing her students to name a Teddy Bear Mohammed.

It's rather like living next to a family that you know is abusing their children. Do you turn away because it is their business? Or do you do something to help the children? Is that imposing your beliefs on them? Well, good, goddammit.

At 6:32 PM, Blogger Steve Lewis said...

But Rose, you are conveniently forgetting in your analogy that those living next door to the abusing parents are themselves abusing kids, only they're doing it without any news following them because they own the news and deliver what upsets you but not the truth of the situation.

At 6:38 PM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

Last I heard, Israelis don't strap bombs on their wives and children and send them on suicide missions, Steve.

Sure, doesn't happen all the time, but it seems to be accepted as completely normal amongst Muslims.

Well, maybe not some, but they can't speak out. They might have their heads lopped off.

We're talking some really sick people here, Steve. I appreciate someone defending the underdog. Always will. But these are some sick, sick people.

At 12:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Western Civilization (no quotation marks, thank you) is under attack in Europe as outlined in this short flick and at greater length in a book entitled "While Europe Slept" by Bruce Bawer. The movement of immigrants from Muslim countries into Europe is rapidly escalating and not all of these immigrants are interested in adopting European customs. Many are interested in taking over in Europe, and plenty of well-meaning but stupid people in Europe are helping them do it. Europe may yet stop the suicidal rush to accept its Muslim conquerors, if it heeds Bruce Bawer's message.

We Americans, too, need to get smart fast if we want to preserve our culture. People who think all cultures are the same need to view this short film and really look at what they see there. Some Europeans want to establish a separate legal system for immigrants from Muslim countries. It may start with approving the head scarf. Will it end with European countries legalizing the so-called Muslim "honor killings" of women?

At 4:46 AM, Blogger Steve Lewis said...

Fred and Rose. Do either of you remember Kosovo? Bosnia? Do either of you remember what Christians were doing to Muslims there? Huh? Huh?

Do either of you remember your history lessons? Do either of you remember what Christians were doing to Christians, Christians doing to native peoples?

Muslims are backwards, yes, still caught up in Middle Ages thinking but armed with modern weapons. Deal with it. We are not innocents in this. We are provoking Muslim madness instead of helping them join the 21st century by continually attacking their Middle East countries for our oil addiction.

Get some perspective and stop showing just one side of a horrible religious intolerance all around, including Israelis who, no, do not strap bombs on themselves--they just use our jets to strafe kids with.

At 6:18 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

"Do either of you remember what Christians were doing to Muslims there?".

All the sides in the Yugoslavia have been slitting each other's throats for centuries, as I understand it.

"We are provoking Muslim madness instead of helping them join the 21st century by continually attacking their Middle East countries".

I might well agree with you there, at least for the most part.

At 7:27 AM, Blogger Rose said...

We are not provoking Muslim madness. All you need to do is look at the many wonderful and amazing people who have moved here and who find our society to be quite welcoming, We are open, and we are giving.

Look at all the conflicts around the world, Stephen - all Muslim except for the Irish/Catholic thing, Right? They kill each other, they kill their neighbors. There's NO excuse for being stuck in the MIddle Age crusader mentality, NO excuse for honor killings OF THEIR OWN SISTERS, DAUGHTERS, WIVES!


At 8:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are some parallels, though. They mutilate the genitals of their girls. We mutilate the genitals of our boys. Everybody thinks it is good to mutilate the genitals of some poor innocent defenseless little creature. Everybody thinks their own society is moral and just. Every culture thinks of the other as cruel and inhumane.

For my part, I hate cultures run by the strong when they are merciless toward the weak.

At 10:17 AM, Blogger Steve Lewis said...

Rose, we are provoking Muslim madness. Israel, Iraq? Remember those nations?

At 8:59 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Burkhas, honor killings - that is Muslim madness Stephen. We did not write that into their law. They did.

We, on the other hand, allow freedom of expression, sexual freedom, living in sin, you know - and we do not kill our sisters, mothers, wives and daughters for it.

We allow all children to go to school, and we do not teach them to kill anyone from another country or to hate others. Have you seen the textbooks from Afghanistan?

Quite the contrary. Our girls are allowed to go to school. Theirs are not. (In SOME of the nations in question in this discussion.)

We use our cartoon characters for entertainment, or maybe, like Smokey Bear, to teach good habits. They are using Mickey Mouse and puppets to teach murder.

Like I said - I have NO sympathy. None.

But I will say this - years ago, there was a news report of a summer school where the kids were equally Palestinian and Israeli - they lived, and learned, and laughed and played together. And found that they were not so different after all. The learned that peace was possible.

When will the adults learn?

At 7:31 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said...

Jonah Goldberg has a rather mild, in my opinion, commentary on the Fitna video.

At 7:32 AM, Blogger Fred Mangels said... hyperlink didn't work, but you can copy and paste the url to get the page.

At 10:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My goodness! Fred's liberal posters sound like they really hate those who follow strict Islamic laws. Although liberals have been preaching diversity & multiculturalism (ie, all cultures are equal) for many years, they must not believe that the Muslim culture is quite as equal as ours. But, it sounds like liberals don't like the Israeli culture any better. It seems that liberals hate strict Muslims like the Iranian terrorists but support other strict Muslims like the Palestinians in their battle aginst the evil Israelis? OK, now I see what's going on - liberals hate all religions & all laws that regulate morality!

At 12:31 PM, Blogger Rose said...

If Muslim culture includes sanctioned mercy killings then NO, it is not equal. Muslim culture does not seem to be about making the world a better place. A more peaceful place. A safer place. Nope. Doesn't even begin to measure up. It doesn't even come close to measuring up to your own ideals, Stephen. It doesn't even begin to rise to measuring up to your own ideals. It doesn't even try to lift itself up.

What's good about us as a nation and as a generation is that we can see the good in all religions and cultures, and many choose to adopt that which is good into their own lifestyle. The ideals of Buddha, Ghandi, just to name a few...

But all thinking people MUST condemn murderous bombers of pizza parlors, MUST condemn honor killings, MUST condemn the degradation and disrespect of women and gays, MUST condemn the sawing off of a man's head on camera, and posting it on the internet... sigh. It saddens me that we are even having this discussion. That there is even a question of what is right and wrong in this instance.

At 1:50 PM, Blogger Steve Lewis said...

Rose, try to get some perspective, please? Islam is not my religion but it is the religion of over a billion human beings. 300 years ago you could reacting in utter horror at the atrocities committed by your fellow Christians but now you're not giving Muslims the same grace to "grow up". Most Muslims are in Third World countries and their education levels are way behind ours. The atrocious Muslim behavior follows poverty lines in case you haven't noticed--Muslims in Western nations do not behave like they do in Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan or Egypt.

I am a Christian and will give Christian grace to Muslims as I believe human beings are basically good and eventually will grow out of bad ideologies--like the Catholics did, like the Germans did, like the Russians did, and like the Muslims will do also once given a chance to be equals with Westerners.

At 7:28 PM, Blogger Rose said...

I agree they need to grow up - and fast.

The past does not matter. Every day is a new chance to create a better world.

Start now.

At 9:58 AM, Blogger Steve Lewis said...

Good. Begin today, Rose, by refusing to let Congress give more money to Israel to buy weapons to kill innocent Palestinian children.

Next, read the history of Palestine written by Palestinians and not Israelis. Learn why 60 years of oppression is not enough time to let the original crime against humanity that was the destruction of Palestine that happened, Rose, without one single Palestinian's consent or even presence in the UN negotiations that stripped Palestinians of their country.

At 10:01 PM, Blogger Rose said...

SO WHAT! Today is now. They do not have to continue to strap suicide vests on their sons because they enjoy playing the victim - and by the way if they really cared about that they'd be hating the other Arab nation that killed them.

At 1:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you think this theory might explain why these blood feuds go on and on for generations?

The need for Drama in the lives of human beings is intense, even irresistible. But these people are too poor to access the entertainment industry. They can't afford tickets to go to the movies or to a live stage production. And because they cannot get their need for Drama satisfied the way most affluent people do, they must make their own Drama.

They make their own Drama by Hating other people close to where they live, by Striking Out at them whenever they can, by Mourning their Martyred Dead when the enemy Strikes Out at them, and by Cursing, Cursing, Cursing their miserable fate to be stuck in such a terrible way of life.

Seriously, what can stop the Palestinian/Israeli conflict? Only some new belief system that would teach them to love their neighbors as they love themselves. And you know, that is not very likely to happen any time soon.


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