I'm a Libertarian living in Humboldt County, CA. I've lived here in Eureka since 1973 and joined the Libertarian Party in 1992. This blog will mostly focus on local political issues, but I may stray into state and national issues as well, when I can't help myself. Please post your comments by clicking on the "comments" link at the bottom of each post. Although I do moderate comments, you need not be a registered user to post them.
I think this is kind of a neat idea. I wonder what kind of argument the Anti- Arkley crowd will come up with to oppose it?
posted by Fred Mangels @ 8:20 AM
66 comments
66 Comments:
I suggest that it will not make one bit of difference to the anti-Arkley crowd. Unless they get their way, totally and absolutely, they will continue to vilify any private development, no matter how presented.
Perhaps. We shall see.
Hey, Brian [Morrissey]; I just thought of something: Any plans for putting fish in that marsh?
But why don't they want to clean up the whole site?
Just wondering.
Even our local dictatorship gets the idea the public wants cleanup before zoning, but they want the public process revived first. The current developer had his buddies on the city council kill an already-funded, ongoing public planning process specific to this location. Now he is doing whatever it takes to keep up a good appearance--as long as he gets to call all of the shots. We all depend on "small d" democracy, and citizens of all political persuasions (except fascist oligarchs like Robin P. Arkley II, perhaps) had better get interested in Eureka politics!
Remove Home Depot from the equation, and the opposition would probably be blunted considerably. Whether this was intended as a PR move, it should work quite well for the purpose.
Brian, bitter about the loss of democracy? Damned right.
"Anon 9:25 – we are, to the absolute letter and spirit of the law."
Really? It's reported that only the worst-polluted spots will be cleaned up and the rest capped. Is this incorrect?
Of all people you would think republicans would want to preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people. Abe Lincoln memorialized the war dead on both sides of the civil war by so sadly pointing out that this is why our soldiers die - in support of the people. Not a word in the Gettysburg Address about paving over toxic waste for profit.
This new proposal should play extremely well with the Coastal Commission as well as anyone who is tired of that blighted eyesore. The Progressives must come to realize that life is a compromise. This nation was founded on compromises. Without compromise, this nation would grind to a halt. But maybe that is what they want.
I want 11 acres!!!
Is it just me, or does Brian Morrissey look like a "before" picture of Robin Arkley?
Yeah, yeah, but at least he has the guts to comment here under his name.
they have rights within the current zoning... beyond that it is all political...
This is a nice middle ground by SN. They should receive praise for listening to the public. I would think the general public outside the anti-Home Depot group would relish this project coming to reality.
It seems to me the driving force against the development is an anti-Home Depot group trying to hide behind environmental concerns.
I know, when Home Depot comes, I will still shop at stores I like to do business with including McK Ace, Thomas Home Center, Mill Yard, etc as well as Home Depot.
Oh well, just my thoughts.
Mike Harvey
But why not clean up the whole site?
What's the drawback - financial?
Anon 7:03 "But why not clean up the whole site?"
Does anyone believe that if the site was cleaned up BEYOND what is presently required, a "total cleanup" if you will, that anti-anything crowd would simply come up with something else slamming the project??
The only reason the owner of the Works became involved, and he admitted it in a time-standard article, was because he became aware that a Best Buy was slated for the site, as well as Home Depot...
"Does anyone believe that if the site was cleaned up BEYOND what is presently required, a "total cleanup" if you will, that anti-anything crowd would simply come up with something else slamming the project??"
Maybe so. But apart from all the politics, in principle it seems like a good idea to clean up messes, especially toxic ones.
What would it cost to clean it up? A lot, probably.
"Does anyone believe that if the site was cleaned up BEYOND what is presently required, a "total cleanup" if you will, that anti-anything crowd would simply come up with something else slamming the project??"
Maybe so. But apart from all the politics, in principle it seems like a good idea to clean up messes, especially toxic ones.
What would it cost to clean it up? A lot, probably.
If they estimate it will cost an additional $3 million to do this new proposal, then $10 million to do the rest? Besides, from my understanding of the process, isn't the toxic soil just moved from our area to somewhere else?
Brian...you illustrate my point...you comply....they move the ball....and try to get the laws changed...if they get the laws changed, and again you comply, it will be something else.
OK, so from what Brian says, the Ballon Track/Tract site is going to be entirely cleaned up.
Is that correct, Brian?
11:07 wrote "OK, so from what Brian says, the Ballon Track/Tract site is going to be entirely cleaned up."
As best they can, without excavating the entire area and driving the soil hundreds of miles to dump it somewhere else. Sounds good to me.
Brian wrote:"There will be fish in the marsh. We won’t put them there, but what ever marine fish species are present in the near shore area of Humboldt Bay will likely make their way into the marsh open water area. "
Thanks. I kind of figured that might happen regardless.
Mr. Morrissey is your client willing to still purchase the property if UP cleans it up? Would you back out because it was too expensive then? If UP was forced to clean it up or if you cleaned it up and you end up paying for it either way — whats the difference? Is the difference that then there would be more competition for the property or that you think you can clean it up cheaper than UP and pocket the difference? Or more likely the difference is time constraints and already this project would three years or so to complete the process and if UP did it then who knows how long that would take.
"Now is the time" is a Nancy Flemming campaign slogan. Gawd Almighty, pass me some truthiness. Time for what?
If SN pulls out of the project, and if, as it seems from the state water board, the site is currently in compliance, there is no way, legal or otherwise, to get UP to clean up the site unless the use changes. They can leave it a blighted eyesore for decades more, no matter what groups like Baykeeper or CREG think.
So the city rezones it for a use that requires cleanup then pursues the issue. It's been done elsewhere. Or is this more truthiness?
Remeber, this whole thing is about keeping the "big boxes" out. That's the bottom line.
The talk about the clean up is just a red herring.
And how many of these people who spoke actually live in Eureka? Having an opinion is one thing but I'm getting tired of outsiders trying to tell Eureka residents and voters what their city should look like. If they care so much, move here and vote this November. It will be a very simple decision. Three of the four votes in favor of the Arkley project are up for re-election.
Bit wrote; "Fred is very wrong.".
Nope, I'm right and you know it. This whole thing about the clean up wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't one big box or another involved.
It's clear as day to me. Why it isn't to you is beyond me.
Hey: Cleanups have never been an issue, until the Arkleys and a big box got involved.
7:42 wrote: "but I'm getting tired of outsiders trying to tell Eureka residents and voters what their city should look like".
Gee...what ever happened to local control?
Tim,
I thought my 6:42am post nailed it on the anti Home Depot post before Fred took 13 hours for my wisdom set in his mind...
Mike Harvey
Leonard is going out in November.Just watching him sweat whenever he glanced over at Ron Kuhnel at the meeting was a sight.He also glanced over our blogger bit's hand when he was raising it quite a few times,and I had to leave before he got to his question.So bit, what did you ask?Every CREG forum so far had a better attendance then the dog and pony show put on the other night.
If SN is held to a higher standard than the law, then every f-cking environmental group's projects and proposals better be held to that and more, and a law ought to be written to that effect. Damn you all, I was proud to be an environmentalist until this feeding frenzy, this divisiveness, this utter hatred and blind vicious mad rabid dog behavior disguised as 'intelligent' discourse swickens me.
Hold them to a higher standard than SN, make thier projects, Seafood culinary Institutes and clean up projects cost a thousand times more than they should and require certification and compliance on every single mark Lovelace type "expert" that comes along. Checks and balances. it's damn time we had them.
Had enough of this BS, bit. Just had enough. Clean up your own act. Produce something of value. Quit tearing down those who do. Worthless. Worthless, Worhtless, hateful comments.
Let us let SN clean it up to any legal standard. We know by law UP do not have to if they just monitor as is. So this is not good as is. Is Home Depot going to kill our economy? Where were these people when Costco came in? We need Pro growth! Any is SMART!
(CREG) Citizens (for) Real Enviromentalist Griping. A group for no growth period. (We just hate Arkley, period.) No facts needed. You people in Eureka will suffer our out of town opinions!
Behind all of this looms a larger issue: should corruption so bold that a greedy foreclosure expert be allowed to derail public process be allowed anywhere?? Let alone on a polluted, minimally filled tidal wetlands?? This site has been subject to far more pollution than other locations in Eureka - and Humboldt Bay is everyone's business, so how about if you sychophantic wannabe's wait til November and vote to continue the oligarchy you love?? The rest of us are looking for honest people to run for city council.
Wake up Brian, we've seen Nancy Flemming's commercials."The time is now".
As if Larry Glass is honest. He doesn't even live in Eureka yet pretends he does. Uses his store front as his "address" to be able to pretend his opinion carries more weight.
Brian M. said: "After years of debate and delay, now we have a real opportunity to take real steps to improve our environment, community and economy."
I love the "we this" and "our community that" ...
You were shipped in from Nebraska to close the deal on this sucker. Don't talk as if you've been here and been worry about what to do about the Balloon Track all this time!
Brian is from Nebraska, Tim Hooven and Mike Harvey live in McKinlyville, but someone like Larry Glass who lives just outside of city limits but owns a store in town should not have a right to get involved in Eureka issues?
And no, Rob Arkley and Security National did not fund Nancy' campaign, that was Kurt Kramer and we all know that Kurt and Rob would never collude on any projects.
We all, of course Larry as well, should have a right to voice our opinion. We all shop in Eureka and do business throughout the county. In fact I was in the Works just a few weeks ago (no, not buying a t-shirt)looking for an old Judas Priest CD before a meeting... sad to say he didn't have any. In fact, I believe my wife did daycare for Larry's child when we lived in Freshwater.
Secondly, I live in the unincorporated Blue Lake area.
Mike Harvey
Hey how about Home Depot in the unincorporated area of Blue Lake?Are you willing to work with Security National on that Mike?A little zoning change is necessary,that's all.We certainly don't want any NIMBYism floating around.
It could go next to the casino and proposed hotel...second thought they could take Almquist Lumber's place (since they are moving soon) along with Calgon Corp. and go in the Blue Lake industrial park.
Anyway have a great day; off to an old friend's wedding.
Mike Harvey
Mike, Brian...and those of you who have been kind enough to let us know who you are...from all sides of the spectrum(should include Richard M here as well)...I totally appreciate all that you have to say, with none of the seemingly requisite mudlslinging...
Mike, hope your friend has a wedding to remember.
Richard, I spoke to you during the Rhody parade, and you sir, won my vote (stolid otherwise republican - lol)..Brian, i appreciate your willingness to endure the slings and arrows and come here anyway...
If I werent semi-high up in a certain local govt, I would not me an anon...but, unfortunately, i must remain so.....
Salzman's gang just wants to hand the land over to the Indians for a casino, that's why they're kissing up - besides the ten grand they finagled out of the tribe, making nice every which way they can, using the poor murderer's parents to keep their boy in office, now firing the only real environmental prosecutor, severing ties with the CDAA, Keep you eye on the ball, it is well hidden behind all these passionate declarations of caring for the marsh. The signs are all there, moving Baykeeper in
Watch all the environmental regualtions vaporize when a politically correct group gets involved. All the concern over toxics, gone. Just hold a cleansing ceremony and its all history.
ya think?
bury nothing there, the ground is sour.
Brina, no matter how much you give them, they will not be happy. You have already done everything that I ever heard asked for in a plan, the design is beautiful and designed to fit in with the community, and not to look like a big box, but to appear as a collection of smaller shops - no matter wht you do to please them, nothing will.
This is about power. They don't care about the bay, they care about making you bend to thier will, and they care about winning. They don't care about the community.
Period.
Brina is Brian Bit but believe Bert here when I say put Ark's plan up for vote and be done with it.
Bert (not Burt Lancaster) Just Bert
Bit - are you an HCDCC member?
If we brought in a third party abitrator and he heard both sides of the Marina isssue, we would be seeing progress.
You buy the land, you get to make decisions. The City had its chance. You had your chance. You don't need a goddam committee to make every decision. It's not a community-rules thing, unless the community buys the property.
So, raise the money, buy it back. See how much you have left to do anything with.
For god's sake isn't there something constructive for all of you naysayers to put your energy into?
Like try raising money to re-fund the CAST program - protect kids from their abusers, put child molesters away, fund the Domestic Violence program, help battered women, donate to the animal rescue groups.
And if you want to lock up a piece of land, buy it. Sit on it. Keep it 'pristine' (as if the Ballon Track is).
4:23 - Wrong. Property and building laws exist to protect all of us and just because you buy the land, you do NOT get to make all the decisions. Are you lying or just uninformed?
An abandoned railroad yard leaking toxics into Humboldt Bay does not strike you as a health and welfare issue? Whoa.
Mr. Hooven has a professional interest in the project.
http://www.hoovenco.com/content/category/4/9/17/
When someone has something to gain financially through a governmental decision, isn't that a Conflict of Interest?
The railyard is "leaking" right now, 9:19. It has been. It will continue to do so, whether Marina Center happens or not. It'll continue "leaking" for 20 more years while the property sits, just like the Halvorsen piece, with its rebar monuments.
Myopic progressives equal stagnant communities. A damper on free enterprise, punishment for achievers, a dictatorship by any other name, telling people where they can shop and what they can buy, what they can say, and who they can say it to. Politically correct taken to a new and higher level.
Dear All,
Do you really think that this is being done in a way that will win the mind of Rob Arkley? This appears to be more about the politics of personal destruction aimed at Rob and his family.
Bit,
I am not buying. Why all the Anti-Arkley stuff? If you REALLY oppose only the project why don't you stay on point and not make it so personal.
You won't stop the Anti-Arkley stuff meaning that you are suffering from a bad case of one of the seven deadly sins: envy
hahahahahah
8:21 got you good Bit -
Typical right-wing stuff - demonize, marginalize, lie, lie, lie. No civilized discussion to be found on THIS blog.
I agree. Fred deserves credit for trying to maintain civility.
bit, you are anonymous. Who knows who bit is?
Who knows who anonymous is?
anonymous knows who anonymous is
but anonymous wonders who anonymous is
and anonymous, he don't say nuttin'
This has gotten really stupid.
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