Thursday, July 13, 2006

The Balloon Tract Preserve

I think this is kind of a neat idea. I wonder what kind of argument the Anti- Arkley crowd will come up with to oppose it?

Too bad Security National couldn't start there and work their way south to the Palco marsh.

95 Comments:

At 9:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I suggest that it will not make one bit of difference to the anti-Arkley crowd. Unless they get their way, totally and absolutely, they will continue to vilify any private development, no matter how presented.

 
At 9:12 AM, Blogger Fred said...

Perhaps. We shall see.

Hey, Brian [Morrissey]; I just thought of something: Any plans for putting fish in that marsh?

 
At 9:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But why don't they want to clean up the whole site?

Just wondering.

 
At 9:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even our local dictatorship gets the idea the public wants cleanup before zoning, but they want the public process revived first. The current developer had his buddies on the city council kill an already-funded, ongoing public planning process specific to this location. Now he is doing whatever it takes to keep up a good appearance--as long as he gets to call all of the shots. We all depend on "small d" democracy, and citizens of all political persuasions (except fascist oligarchs like Robin P. Arkley II, perhaps) had better get interested in Eureka politics!

 
At 9:51 AM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

Fred – I will check with the biologists – I know there was some talk about Salmon, but I think that was more hopeful thinking than fact.

Anon 9:25 – we are, to the absolute letter and spirit of the law.

Wow - Anon 9:32, you are certainly bitter, you might be a bit too cynical, even for Humboldt.

 
At 10:16 AM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Remove Home Depot from the equation, and the opposition would probably be blunted considerably. Whether this was intended as a PR move, it should work quite well for the purpose.

 
At 10:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brian, bitter about the loss of democracy? Damned right.

 
At 10:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anon 9:25 – we are, to the absolute letter and spirit of the law."

Really? It's reported that only the worst-polluted spots will be cleaned up and the rest capped. Is this incorrect?

 
At 10:49 AM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Letter of the law needs some clarification. As we found out last night the clean-up is dictated by the type of development. Clean-up to the letter of the law in this case as proposed means for light industrial or commercial. If anyone down the line bought part of the property and wanted to use it for say housing they would then be responsible for additional clean-up.

 
At 11:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of all people you would think republicans would want to preserve government of the people, by the people and for the people. Abe Lincoln memorialized the war dead on both sides of the civil war by so sadly pointing out that this is why our soldiers die - in support of the people. Not a word in the Gettysburg Address about paving over toxic waste for profit.

 
At 3:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This new proposal should play extremely well with the Coastal Commission as well as anyone who is tired of that blighted eyesore. The Progressives must come to realize that life is a compromise. This nation was founded on compromises. Without compromise, this nation would grind to a halt. But maybe that is what they want.

 
At 4:02 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Its a nice start. But that's about it.

 
At 6:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I want 11 acres!!!

 
At 6:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it just me, or does Brian Morrissey look like a "before" picture of Robin Arkley?

 
At 6:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, yeah, but at least he has the guts to comment here under his name.

 
At 8:22 PM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Anon 1142, 1035, & 932 - It is not government property. It is private. That means the owner still has some rights, like it or not.

 
At 8:29 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

The right to do something good.

 
At 10:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

they have rights within the current zoning... beyond that it is all political...

 
At 6:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a nice middle ground by SN. They should receive praise for listening to the public. I would think the general public outside the anti-Home Depot group would relish this project coming to reality.
It seems to me the driving force against the development is an anti-Home Depot group trying to hide behind environmental concerns.
I know, when Home Depot comes, I will still shop at stores I like to do business with including McK Ace, Thomas Home Center, Mill Yard, etc as well as Home Depot.

Oh well, just my thoughts.

Mike Harvey

 
At 7:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But why not clean up the whole site?

What's the drawback - financial?

 
At 8:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 7:03 "But why not clean up the whole site?"

Does anyone believe that if the site was cleaned up BEYOND what is presently required, a "total cleanup" if you will, that anti-anything crowd would simply come up with something else slamming the project??

The only reason the owner of the Works became involved, and he admitted it in a time-standard article, was because he became aware that a Best Buy was slated for the site, as well as Home Depot...

 
At 9:13 AM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Anon 703 How many gallons of diesel are you willing to burn hauling it to Red Bluff rather than capping it?

 
At 9:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Does anyone believe that if the site was cleaned up BEYOND what is presently required, a "total cleanup" if you will, that anti-anything crowd would simply come up with something else slamming the project??"

Maybe so. But apart from all the politics, in principle it seems like a good idea to clean up messes, especially toxic ones.

What would it cost to clean it up? A lot, probably.

 
At 9:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Does anyone believe that if the site was cleaned up BEYOND what is presently required, a "total cleanup" if you will, that anti-anything crowd would simply come up with something else slamming the project??"

Maybe so. But apart from all the politics, in principle it seems like a good idea to clean up messes, especially toxic ones.

What would it cost to clean it up? A lot, probably.

 
At 9:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If they estimate it will cost an additional $3 million to do this new proposal, then $10 million to do the rest? Besides, from my understanding of the process, isn't the toxic soil just moved from our area to somewhere else?

 
At 9:29 AM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

We are going to clean it up. At the last meeting, there was talk amongst opponents that the "law" was not good enough - that they should go to Sac and get new laws for the balloon track.

We are going to clean the site, create a ten acre coastal wetland preserve with hiking, biking and observation areas,

We are going to clean the mess. Cost is not the issue. It's about doing what's right.

 
At 9:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brian...you illustrate my point...you comply....they move the ball....and try to get the laws changed...if they get the laws changed, and again you comply, it will be something else.

 
At 11:07 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, so from what Brian says, the Ballon Track/Tract site is going to be entirely cleaned up.

Is that correct, Brian?

 
At 11:14 AM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

Fred - about the fish. Our biologist says

"There will be fish in the marsh. We won’t put them there, but what ever marine fish species are present in the near shore area of Humboldt Bay will likely make their way into the marsh open water area. "

 
At 11:16 AM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

Anon 11:07 Absolutely.

Marina Center will meet and/or exceed all local, state and federal clean-up standards.

 
At 11:27 AM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Again Brian says all local, state and federal clean-up standards. But that of course is determined by their project which is commercial industrial and not residential or park or public as it is zoned now.

 
At 11:40 AM, Blogger Fred said...

11:07 wrote "OK, so from what Brian says, the Ballon Track/Tract site is going to be entirely cleaned up."

As best they can, without excavating the entire area and driving the soil hundreds of miles to dump it somewhere else. Sounds good to me.

Brian wrote:"There will be fish in the marsh. We won’t put them there, but what ever marine fish species are present in the near shore area of Humboldt Bay will likely make their way into the marsh open water area. "

Thanks. I kind of figured that might happen regardless.

 
At 11:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Morrissey is your client willing to still purchase the property if UP cleans it up? Would you back out because it was too expensive then? If UP was forced to clean it up or if you cleaned it up and you end up paying for it either way — whats the difference? Is the difference that then there would be more competition for the property or that you think you can clean it up cheaper than UP and pocket the difference? Or more likely the difference is time constraints and already this project would three years or so to complete the process and if UP did it then who knows how long that would take.

 
At 11:57 AM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

Note to self: work more - blog less.

The big difference would be timing. UP has already demonstrated the willingness to let the property sit for decades. Any attempt to "force" the UP would take decades more.

After years of debate and delay, now we have a real opportunity to take real steps to improve our environment, community and economy.

Now is the time.

 
At 12:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Now is the time" is a Nancy Flemming campaign slogan. Gawd Almighty, pass me some truthiness. Time for what?

 
At 1:19 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Time for me to sell you something.

 
At 2:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If SN pulls out of the project, and if, as it seems from the state water board, the site is currently in compliance, there is no way, legal or otherwise, to get UP to clean up the site unless the use changes. They can leave it a blighted eyesore for decades more, no matter what groups like Baykeeper or CREG think.

 
At 4:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the city rezones it for a use that requires cleanup then pursues the issue. It's been done elsewhere. Or is this more truthiness?

 
At 5:41 PM, Blogger Fred said...

Remeber, this whole thing is about keeping the "big boxes" out. That's the bottom line.

The talk about the clean up is just a red herring.

 
At 5:47 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Fred is very wrong. There is no question there are those who don't want a big box but there are also many who simply want it cleaned up. If you would have attended Leonard's town hall meeting you you would have wittnesed those who spoke.

 
At 7:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And how many of these people who spoke actually live in Eureka? Having an opinion is one thing but I'm getting tired of outsiders trying to tell Eureka residents and voters what their city should look like. If they care so much, move here and vote this November. It will be a very simple decision. Three of the four votes in favor of the Arkley project are up for re-election.

 
At 7:50 PM, Blogger Fred said...

Bit wrote; "Fred is very wrong.".

Nope, I'm right and you know it. This whole thing about the clean up wouldn't be an issue if there wasn't one big box or another involved.

It's clear as day to me. Why it isn't to you is beyond me.

Hey: Cleanups have never been an issue, until the Arkleys and a big box got involved.

 
At 7:53 PM, Blogger Fred said...

7:42 wrote: "but I'm getting tired of outsiders trying to tell Eureka residents and voters what their city should look like".

Gee...what ever happened to local control?

 
At 8:42 PM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Fred, you nailed it.

 
At 9:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tim,

I thought my 6:42am post nailed it on the anti Home Depot post before Fred took 13 hours for my wisdom set in his mind...

Mike Harvey

 
At 9:21 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

There were people at the Leanard meeting (obviously you didn't attend) who very passionate about clean up. The were gray haired and looked more like my mother than anything.

 
At 9:54 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Leonard is going out in November.Just watching him sweat whenever he glanced over at Ron Kuhnel at the meeting was a sight.He also glanced over our blogger bit's hand when he was raising it quite a few times,and I had to leave before he got to his question.So bit, what did you ask?Every CREG forum so far had a better attendance then the dog and pony show put on the other night.

 
At 10:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If SN is held to a higher standard than the law, then every f-cking environmental group's projects and proposals better be held to that and more, and a law ought to be written to that effect. Damn you all, I was proud to be an environmentalist until this feeding frenzy, this divisiveness, this utter hatred and blind vicious mad rabid dog behavior disguised as 'intelligent' discourse swickens me.

Hold them to a higher standard than SN, make thier projects, Seafood culinary Institutes and clean up projects cost a thousand times more than they should and require certification and compliance on every single mark Lovelace type "expert" that comes along. Checks and balances. it's damn time we had them.

Had enough of this BS, bit. Just had enough. Clean up your own act. Produce something of value. Quit tearing down those who do. Worthless. Worthless, Worhtless, hateful comments.

 
At 11:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us let SN clean it up to any legal standard. We know by law UP do not have to if they just monitor as is. So this is not good as is. Is Home Depot going to kill our economy? Where were these people when Costco came in? We need Pro growth! Any is SMART!

 
At 11:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

(CREG) Citizens (for) Real Enviromentalist Griping. A group for no growth period. (We just hate Arkley, period.) No facts needed. You people in Eureka will suffer our out of town opinions!

 
At 7:19 AM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Sorry Mike, you nailed it first. How come all these passionate "gray haired" people didn't get together 10 years ago and buy this property to clean it up if they were so interested? Probably could have had it for a song. I don't believe anybody cared about this junkyard until Arkley & Home Depot got involved. Somebody else could have proposed a whole foods market and big box wouldn't be an issue.

 
At 7:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Behind all of this looms a larger issue: should corruption so bold that a greedy foreclosure expert be allowed to derail public process be allowed anywhere?? Let alone on a polluted, minimally filled tidal wetlands?? This site has been subject to far more pollution than other locations in Eureka - and Humboldt Bay is everyone's business, so how about if you sychophantic wannabe's wait til November and vote to continue the oligarchy you love?? The rest of us are looking for honest people to run for city council.

 
At 8:39 AM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

oligarchy? We are not the ones producing and running slick TV ads.

 
At 8:55 AM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Wake up Brian, we've seen Nancy Flemming's commercials."The time is now".

 
At 9:39 AM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

Granted - I have not had my daily latté.

Nancy's ads were hers - I did not see them until after the election. I know she is running on a “pro-marina center” platform. But, I have no input on her ads or platform. In fact, I did not know “now is the time” was part of her platform (or I would not have used it on the blog).

If we'd produced them, there would have been a reportable contribution. Check her records – we did not do it.

 
At 10:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As if Larry Glass is honest. He doesn't even live in Eureka yet pretends he does. Uses his store front as his "address" to be able to pretend his opinion carries more weight.

 
At 10:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brian M. said: "After years of debate and delay, now we have a real opportunity to take real steps to improve our environment, community and economy."

I love the "we this" and "our community that" ...

You were shipped in from Nebraska to close the deal on this sucker. Don't talk as if you've been here and been worry about what to do about the Balloon Track all this time!

 
At 11:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brian is from Nebraska, Tim Hooven and Mike Harvey live in McKinlyville, but someone like Larry Glass who lives just outside of city limits but owns a store in town should not have a right to get involved in Eureka issues?

And no, Rob Arkley and Security National did not fund Nancy' campaign, that was Kurt Kramer and we all know that Kurt and Rob would never collude on any projects.

 
At 12:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We all, of course Larry as well, should have a right to voice our opinion. We all shop in Eureka and do business throughout the county. In fact I was in the Works just a few weeks ago (no, not buying a t-shirt)looking for an old Judas Priest CD before a meeting... sad to say he didn't have any. In fact, I believe my wife did daycare for Larry's child when we lived in Freshwater.

Secondly, I live in the unincorporated Blue Lake area.

Mike Harvey

 
At 2:28 PM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Who said people should not have the right to get involved?

 
At 2:43 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Hey how about Home Depot in the unincorporated area of Blue Lake?Are you willing to work with Security National on that Mike?A little zoning change is necessary,that's all.We certainly don't want any NIMBYism floating around.

 
At 3:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It could go next to the casino and proposed hotel...second thought they could take Almquist Lumber's place (since they are moving soon) along with Calgon Corp. and go in the Blue Lake industrial park.

Anyway have a great day; off to an old friend's wedding.

Mike Harvey

 
At 4:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mike, Brian...and those of you who have been kind enough to let us know who you are...from all sides of the spectrum(should include Richard M here as well)...I totally appreciate all that you have to say, with none of the seemingly requisite mudlslinging...

Mike, hope your friend has a wedding to remember.

Richard, I spoke to you during the Rhody parade, and you sir, won my vote (stolid otherwise republican - lol)..Brian, i appreciate your willingness to endure the slings and arrows and come here anyway...

If I werent semi-high up in a certain local govt, I would not me an anon...but, unfortunately, i must remain so.....

 
At 4:54 PM, Blogger Brian Morrissey said...

Thanks Anon 4:17.

One of the things I constantly battle against is the "bubble complex" (the tendency to be surrounded by like-minded people). I have always tried to understand all the views of my new community. I will go and listen to any group - pro- or anti-marina center. I have met numerous times with Kerrigan, Glass, Lovelace, etc. We want to know.

Blogs like Fred's give a relatively "pure" set of view points. I know that there is rampant abuse of the Anon function and many times one or two people try to appear to be many more. But even with the abuse and the slings and arrows - I get some direct feedback; feedback that caused the 10+ acre wetland preserve.

 
At 12:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Salzman's gang just wants to hand the land over to the Indians for a casino, that's why they're kissing up - besides the ten grand they finagled out of the tribe, making nice every which way they can, using the poor murderer's parents to keep their boy in office, now firing the only real environmental prosecutor, severing ties with the CDAA, Keep you eye on the ball, it is well hidden behind all these passionate declarations of caring for the marsh. The signs are all there, moving Baykeeper in

Watch all the environmental regualtions vaporize when a politically correct group gets involved. All the concern over toxics, gone. Just hold a cleansing ceremony and its all history.

 
At 1:31 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Idiot

 
At 4:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ya think?

 
At 8:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

bury nothing there, the ground is sour.

 
At 11:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brina, no matter how much you give them, they will not be happy. You have already done everything that I ever heard asked for in a plan, the design is beautiful and designed to fit in with the community, and not to look like a big box, but to appear as a collection of smaller shops - no matter wht you do to please them, nothing will.

This is about power. They don't care about the bay, they care about making you bend to thier will, and they care about winning. They don't care about the community.

Period.

 
At 1:18 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Who is Brina?

 
At 1:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Brina is Brian Bit but believe Bert here when I say put Ark's plan up for vote and be done with it.

Bert (not Burt Lancaster) Just Bert

 
At 1:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bit - are you an HCDCC member?

 
At 3:19 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Nope. But I am a AAA member.

 
At 4:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we brought in a third party abitrator and he heard both sides of the Marina isssue, we would be seeing progress.

 
At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You buy the land, you get to make decisions. The City had its chance. You had your chance. You don't need a goddam committee to make every decision. It's not a community-rules thing, unless the community buys the property.

So, raise the money, buy it back. See how much you have left to do anything with.

For god's sake isn't there something constructive for all of you naysayers to put your energy into?

Like try raising money to re-fund the CAST program - protect kids from their abusers, put child molesters away, fund the Domestic Violence program, help battered women, donate to the animal rescue groups.

And if you want to lock up a piece of land, buy it. Sit on it. Keep it 'pristine' (as if the Ballon Track is).

 
At 6:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:23 - Wrong. Property and building laws exist to protect all of us and just because you buy the land, you do NOT get to make all the decisions. Are you lying or just uninformed?

 
At 7:08 AM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Those laws were supposed to be for health and welfare and to separate incompatible uses, not to shoot down projects because you don't like the developer or the project.

 
At 9:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

An abandoned railroad yard leaking toxics into Humboldt Bay does not strike you as a health and welfare issue? Whoa.

 
At 9:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Hooven has a professional interest in the project.

http://www.hoovenco.com/content/category/4/9/17/

 
At 9:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When someone has something to gain financially through a governmental decision, isn't that a Conflict of Interest?

 
At 10:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The railyard is "leaking" right now, 9:19. It has been. It will continue to do so, whether Marina Center happens or not. It'll continue "leaking" for 20 more years while the property sits, just like the Halvorsen piece, with its rebar monuments.

Myopic progressives equal stagnant communities. A damper on free enterprise, punishment for achievers, a dictatorship by any other name, telling people where they can shop and what they can buy, what they can say, and who they can say it to. Politically correct taken to a new and higher level.

 
At 11:10 AM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Sounds perfect.

 
At 12:15 PM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Anon 9:19 - Sure, that's why you should be for the Marina Center Project. Clean that site up. No gov't $$. Would you call killing the project and letting the property sit for 20 more years responsible?

Anon 9:21 - We have a professional interest, along with a a bunch of other contractors. I suppose it is conceivable that we get invited to bid, turn in the lowest bid and actually get the job. I would call that a long, long shot from where it stands now. I certainly wouldn't bet my grocery money on it. Nice googling though. Did you like our work at UIHS? http://www.hoovenco.com/content/view/4/13/

Anon 9:32 - That would be a potential conflict of interest if I were on the planning commission, or city council and participated in the decision making process. Otherwise, I have a right to my opinion.

 
At 10:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear All,
Do you really think that this is being done in a way that will win the mind of Rob Arkley? This appears to be more about the politics of personal destruction aimed at Rob and his family.

 
At 10:09 PM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

Huh? That is what some here would like you to believe. Unfortunately that ain't me and I would guess the same for most who appose the Balloon Track project.

 
At 8:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bit,
I am not buying. Why all the Anti-Arkley stuff? If you REALLY oppose only the project why don't you stay on point and not make it so personal.
You won't stop the Anti-Arkley stuff meaning that you are suffering from a bad case of one of the seven deadly sins: envy

 
At 8:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hahahahahah

8:21 got you good Bit -

 
At 10:48 AM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

I have not made anti-arkely posts. You guys just keep saying so.

 
At 11:26 AM, Blogger Bitxxx said...

I guess its time to go back to being anonymous.

 
At 11:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Typical right-wing stuff - demonize, marginalize, lie, lie, lie. No civilized discussion to be found on THIS blog.

 
At 11:49 AM, Anonymous Formerly Bit said...

I agree. Fred deserves credit for trying to maintain civility.

 
At 2:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

bit, you are anonymous. Who knows who bit is?

 
At 3:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who knows who anonymous is?

 
At 7:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous knows who anonymous is
but anonymous wonders who anonymous is
and anonymous, he don't say nuttin'

 
At 7:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This has gotten really stupid.

 

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