Local Democrat Takes On Cobb
This My Word column from local Democrat, Suzy Gaxiola, in the paper this morning got me to wondering. Not so much because she wrote in opposition to David Cobb's latest My Word column. We've seen other lefties opposed to the Cobbites show up here fairly regularly.
I'm just wondering why she's registered as a Democrat?
posted by Fred Mangels @ 8:46 AM
105 comments
105 Comments:
What I get from the letter is that she is offended that people are being told to vote for the "slate" not the best person for the job.
Suzy expresses the frustration of what I believe to be the majority of Democrats in Humboldt County. Humboldt County has been a Democratic voting county for decades but in recent years there has been a determined effort by liberal/Leftist activists, our so-called "Progressives" in Humboldt County to capture the Democratic Party which they have successfully done.
Unlike traditional Democrats these Progressives have no real interest or concern to represent the majority of Democrats in Humboldt County. If you don't support the Progressive party line which makes our Humboldt Democratic Party virtually indestinquishable from the Humboldt Green Party, you don't get recognition from the current HCDCC.
In fact, if you press the issue for more Democratic representation in HCDCC policies you will meet with hostility by HCDCC chair and executive committee that aims to silence your protest. This happened to me as I was banned from making any imput into my own Democratic Party by Chairman Riggs and his Progressive posse in control of the Democratic Party in Humboldt County.
So Suzi speaks for a lot of Democrats. It's really kinda sick to know that Mr. Riggs has managed to get his Progressive views that are backed up in Humboldt County by people quite willing to publicly smear the daylights out of your reputation in their ability to bombard the newspapers with etters to the editor telling the world how rotten you are to dare criticize the new Progressive Tammy Hall.
Suzi, if you're reading this, we disgruntled Dems have been considering the formation of a truly Democratic Party in Humboldt County that represents the majority of not only Dems but all people living and working in Humboldt County.
Yes!! Wonderful idea. Patrick Riggs/Cobb and the rest of them have divided the community. Democrats across the county have been complaining about Local Solutions and DUHC aggressive tactics. We want true representation!
Local Solutions' 460 Campaign Statements are very revealing.
The Green Party has suffered a similar hostile takeover from the Loco Solutions-Demockery Limited gang. They now want to overthrow the entire legal structure of the party, centralize all power in their hands and wipe out the term limits, leaving themselves in power in perpetuity.
Take back the Democratic Party.
REAL DEMOCRATS unite.
Kick the riffraff out!
Separation of activist and party
like separation of church and state.
IMHO
You sound like a) a bunch of repubs trying to split dem unity, or b) people who haven't spent much time at HCDCC.
Howard Dean Dems, Mike Thompson Moderates, Liberals. and yes, (intake of breath), even Progressives, are part of the scene.
(expels breath)
Was that worth the time to write?
Well, I am a democrat and I disagree completely with all the previous comments. Stop whining!
David Cobb got 10% of the Green Party vote in a competative primary, its clear he doesn't even represent most Greens, much less many Democrats. You Central Committee operatives are pathetic in your attempts to downplay the growing revolt in your ranks.
I'm sorry, revolt away then.
Suzy speaks the same frustrations many of us local Democrats have lately. Don't tell us who to support! The HCDCC or should I say Patrick Riggs does not speak for me, and their endorsement of a Arnold/Bush loving Bonnie Neely through the Democrats for Neely has left me disturbed concerning their agenda. They are not progressives!
So Richard, they didn't endorse you because we all need to keep Neocon/Wannabe Flemming out of office. Don't take it so personally. It makes you look sad. Climb on board and let's take the country back - starting with the City of Eureka. It's time to suck it up.
You are correct anonymous 12:34. Richard entered the race late and Democrats for Neely was already in place. Get back in the boat, disgruntled democrats, and help take this Country Back instead of attacking each other.
That's the kind of lesser evil reductionist argument that drives people away from the Democrats altogether.
Salzman needs to be able to count to three on the Board of Supervisors.
Whoa - I am a dem. I agree with samoasoftball and TOTALLY disagree with Ginger, 12:34 and 12:27 (are you both the same or what!) If you haven't felt the effects Ginger it is because you choose not to. Keep yourself sealed up in your ivory tower.
And richard didn't enter the race late. He entered it as soon as he could file papers. The HCDCC had made up its mind BEFORE it spoke to any of the candidates and I will always consider that a slap in the face to democratic principles. Supporting one dem over the other in a non-partisan election was utterly embarrassing. BUT supporting a republican over a democrat is utterly sickening and shameful - all you should be forced to resign.
I am close to reregistering as non-partisan just to disassociate my self from you guys, but my history to the party has stopped me so far. Yet I see if the HCDCC doesn't get a grip and start representing ALL dems, it will have to happen. Then it will be shame on all of you. Think about that Ginger - and think hard
12:37 That is a lie! The creation of the Democrats for Neely was the last month of the campaign. At the time I was dead even with Nancy Fleeming at around 30%. People in the know are familiar with that. I filed my paperwork in timely manner well before the deadline! Way more timely and ahead of time then Nancy Abrams and Glass! Patrick Riggs knew well in advance I was running before it was official in the paper and kept the information to himself. It is misinformation like this spreading that disgusts me! I am a 30 year Democrat and deserve more respect. But the HCDCC blew off Patrick Higgins and Dikeman. This group does not represent me! Or Suzy. Or Worth. Or Jeff L. Oh but the Support Arnold and Bush through Bonnie. Get real!
Oh but the Support Arnold and Bush through Bonnie.
Man, you guys are really foaming at the mouth over Arnold and Bush? What those two have to do with local races here is nothing. Hating someone for who they voted for is lame.
But what isn't lame is pointing out the obvious division within current Democratic Party members in Humboldt County that seems very much the responsibility of Local Solution's Patrick Riggs and his gand of Progressive supporters who've co-opted our local Democratic Party, making it fit their Progressive anti-corporate, anti-growth political agenda.
Wow! This is getting interesting. Let's hear it for a good old fashioned Lenin/Trotsky purge. Richard; watch out for that guy with the icepick!
"progressive" as in Henry Wallace.
The HCDCC blew off GEIST as well as Higgins, Richard.
Given David Cobb's donation to "Local Solutions PAC" and his using his Times Standard column space to push the Local Solutions slate of candidates, David Cobb's column should be suspended until after the election.
The Times Standard should require David, and Local Solutions to PAY for AD SPACE to promote their candidates - not allow him to abuse his privilege.
I can see and excuse the HCDCC for not endorsing in a race with more than one Democrat. If there is one Democrat running I can not understand why the HCDCC would not help someone willing to stand up and carry a progressive democratic message. That is what I did throughout my campaign. In 1998 I was solicited by the HCDCC to run. (I was on the HCDCC from 1995-2000) They looked for Democrats to run against Bonnie! What the HCDCC has become now is beyond me. Choosing not to endorse me was one thing, to get active and create a committee to give me no chance was not right. I do not care what color you paint it. If people in the HCDCC had stayed out of or just called and said they were sorry would have been enough. I was not afforded that and I am still seeing this BS being spread. Say a lie long enough and people take it as truth. This is how New Progressive Democrats treat their own. And you wonder why we are losing at the National level. Sad.
Oh and Steve, watch out on speaking the truth or they will go after you again!
Samoa, they've been going after me since 1990. But all they've got is slander and negation, there's nothing positive in their vision which is why they so adamantly attack those who do provide some vision for the community.
David Cobb is not only whoring for Loco Solutions; his so-called column a week ago was essentially an unpaid ad for his own fake non-profit Democracy Limited.
Everyone who is outraged by this behavior should show up at Noon on Saturday Sept. 23 at this event (1402 M Street, on 14th in Eureka) with picket signs. After all, its a SKILL SHARE and we should all share our protest skills with these Loco-DUHC creeps.
Would this be the first local political protest organized through a blog? What fun.
The "groups" are way out of hand. It's time they were monitored or regulated.
It sure seems to me David Cobb is only out for David Cobb. SkillShare as a real economic plan? Give me a break. It's just like DUHC's Humboldt Community Barter system. Are you telling me an cable installer should offer his skill to an insurance agent? Or perhaps an auto salesman could trade skills with a U.S. presidential candidate and then they could try to snooker each other. The DUHC agenda really only affects a handful of alternate living folks who refuse to join the rest of the world. But by stirring up enough fecal matter in the community, they are creating havoc for real progression. Humboldt is not a community of, nor will ever be 130,000 community gardeners, leather crafters or social activists. David Cobb, I dare you to pound nails for Humboldt Humanity or hoe weeds in a community garden. Rabble Rousing is not an honorable occupation in my neighborhood. As for the HCDCC, now you know why I registered Independant. I vote per issue and candidate, not as a sheep in a regime. The current Democratic and Republican parties sure don't represent me. But individual candidates in my community do.
Steve, who, exactly, is "after you?" I have read enough of your stuff to know that you have no clue about what is really going on within your much-villified progressive community, and are not worth wasting time on. There are real issues to be dealt with in Humboldt County, and you are not one of them.
If you are going to make a general accusation about folks, then please let me know who, exactly, you are accusing. That way I can check into it and determine if you are right or merely filled with paranoid delusions of your own self-importance.
My money is on the latter.
Well anon 3:03,I was going to skip it this year until I read your post.That should be funny as hell.I'm going to go just to see that.But remember you're gonna have to get people away from their blogging and off of their asses to get there.Hey,maybe you can organize a carpooling workshop to get people there.
oh, oh ,oh, I love a protest! But I do not think it is appropriate in this case. Of course David Cobb is going to push buttons to the best of his abilities pushing the Liberal agenda. That is what he does, and he does it well. And you do know people read his column. I don't always agree with David. Suzy took the time and energy to write a rebutal. Anyone who does not agree with Cobb is welcome to do the same. That is the way he would like it.
but why would we want to do what he likes when hes in love with his own power? this is the chance as disatisfied democrats and greens to take a stand!
Well: you are agitated, now go out and organize! David is an organizer, I bet he is waiting for the challenge! Let us monitor the upswelling of discontent! Wait wait wait, the 23rd? Um, softball tourney out of town for me. Send me photos.
Steve has counterculture roots, not "progressive" that is his entire point that the self proclaimed progressives are anything but, that they are a cancer on the democratic party that is about to metastasize and kill the host, that they are fomenting distrust with their divisive us vs them scorched earth bullshit. Don't let 'em intimidate you Steve. We need more people who call it the way it is.
If you really are a proud Democrat then sign your name like Richard does. Be proud of your party. Don’t hide behind “anonymous”.
Frankly David Cobb's last My Word column in the T-S did more to move the moderate democrats to intelligent candidates versus his "slate". Cobb desperately needs help polishing his writing. If this is the best the party has to offer, god help us.
If I were Ron Kuhnel I would run as far and fast as I can away from Loco Solutions and Demockery Limited.
Their fear tactics and propaganda of lies are so out of touch with the average working class person I’m afraid they lost their allure. The average voter with a brain will see right through their fog.
H.C. Green
It's interesting to note that the Democrats failed to endorse Geist in the Fifth District.
I believe their failure to do so was a direct result of Geist not supporting Gallegos. That upset Salzman and Riggs, which in turn resulted in the Democrats non-endorsement.
So the Gallegos issue spills over into other political races, even when it's not relevant. But a lot of these fellows have blinders on. You're either for them, or against them.
But on election day, she won in just about every town in the Fifth District – McKinleyville, Trinidad, Orick, Blue Lake, Fieldbrook, Hoopa and Willow Creek.
In Mack Town, she had 50.31 percent of the vote. The least amount of support, percentagewise, was in the City of Blue Lake, where she received 46.31 percent compared to Higgins with 40.27 percent.
Jack: If anyone should have been endorsed in the 5th, it should have been Patrick Higgins. He was an active member of the HCDCC. They eat their own. And Patrick is a good guy and works his tail off! One of his "death sentence" moves was to ask the committee to endorse Richard Marks. That is how bad they treat people. There you have the real world as done by the "new" local HCDCC.
I am wondering what party Fred feels I should be affiliated with?
I spoke only for myself and my own frustrations in "My Word" today but it seems I struck a chord. I heard from 11 total strangers who reached out to me to express thier appreciation for apparently speaking FOR THEM! My favorite was from an elderly gentleman who felt truly embarrased by the appearance of his party here in Eureka...the apparent marraige of the HCDCC to the Green Party and their laying claim to us and our votes.
Sorry, samoa. The Party should not endorse one member over another, they should support members of their party as equally as possible. HIggins showing up for meetings doesn't make him a better democrat, nor would it make him a better Republican.
If Riggs likes one better than another, he has every right to Personally support one candidate. he does not have the right to use his position in the HCDCC to empower his annointed choice in the name of people who he has not spoken to, or asked permission from, but is supposed to represent.
It is a betrayal of a position of trust, which he accepted with sinsiter motives, not with the interest of openly representing the diverse group of people that make up the Democratic party, but to hijack the Party bureacracy to further his agenda. His moves were premeditated, and he deserves to be condemned for it.
The Party should have supported you as the only Dem in the race. Riggs and his cohorts would still be free to throw their personal support behind whomever they choose.
And Jack is 100% right.
When Jill Geist voted against Tim Stoen's demand to hire the Bay Area firm to prosecute his smoke and mirrors, didn't even pass demurrer piece-of-crap lawsuit, she crossed Richard Salzman.
Candidates who are accepting his support right now need to pay attention to what happens when you do not do as you are told once you OWE Salzman.
Richard Salzman undertook one of his dirty tricks campaigns against Jill Geist - sent his hatchet man Bob Ornelas out on the radio circuit pumping the "it's time to Dump Geist" message, while he was having "Dump Geist" bumper stickers printed and mailed out in plain brown wrappers, mostly to conservative voters in the Fifth District who he thought would jump on his bandwagon. He intended it to look like a grassroots campaign.
Just like his anti-Arkleyville stickers that he was caught sticking on parking meters in Old town, trying to make it look like a grassroots movement against Rob Arkley. It isn't. It is just Richard and his dirty tricks, trying to manipulate the people in Eureka.
When caught, asked about the Geist bumper stickers, Richard Salzman said he "didn't pay for them." This was reported in the McKinleyville Press. It is a matter of record.
Geist is independent, and not beholden to anyone - something Salzman failed to recognize.
Richard Salzman was an unknown entity when he arrived on the scene and volunteered on Jill's campaign. that is no longer the case. he is a known quantity now, and I say it again - if you are a current candidate, and you are accepting help from Richard Salzman because you think he will make you win, you are making a big mistake which you will regret til your dying day.
Anonymous 9:35 PM who wrote the wonderful "My Word" must be Suzy G. Thank you for your fine words.
The Democratic and Green Party aren’t the problem. It’s the radical extremists (Cobb, Salzman, Riggs, Sopoci-Balknap, Briton, Glass, etc.) attempting to hijack the party HCDCC.
Like you, I can think for myself and vote for the best candidates. Not the slate being shoved down my throat.
Rose: I agree with you! The HCDCC should not endorse one democrat over another. But what you are saying about Richard Salzman and locals is that Bonnie Neely's campaign is toast? I know Richard is way into that campaign. I seen him myself putting up Neely signs with Kerrigan. Tell me what you think! I am disgusted on what is happening to my county!
Richard Salzman's participation in a campaign SHOULD be the kiss of death for a candidate. The man has the ethics of a rattlesnake! Any candidate who accepts his help and embraces his smarmy tactics has no business in public office... no matter the party affiliation
Suzy: Don't know you, but you spoke for alot of people. But you and others of your kind are not organized. So your words are hallow unless you become proactive. I tried and have been vilified. I hope you are more successful. Good luck.
"Others of my kind"???
I'm sorry...what kind is that? The kind that makes whatever difference that we feel we are able? Perhaps you did not mean for that comment to sound so incendiary but it did. My words are NOT hallow. They ARE what I have available to me. Please do not suggest that if I do not have time to take up a battle or the temperment to run for office that I would be better off staying silent as so many sadly do.
I applaud you for your efforts and commitment. Many people give what they can of thier time and thier dollars and hope that it makes a difference. I myself feel that the best thing I can do is engage in conversation with people. It is truly shocking how many people just repeat what they hear, accepting it as a fact without ever giving it a thought. I am willing to ask them to think about it. When I engage in a respectful conversation with someone with an opposing point of view it has me learning something new each time. I would like to think that is not hallow.
The HDCC endorsed Gallegos over Dikeman, both Democrats. But when it came to the Fifth District, the HDCC "standards" changed. They didn't endorse because both candidates were Democrats.
Why? Because of Gallegos. You're for him, or against him.
It's difficult not to think that the departure of environmental prosecutor Paul Hagen is a result of this. Hagen, a Democrat, argued against endorsing Gallegos. Seems like the environmental community shot itself in the foot on this one.
Hagen put environmental scofflaws behind bars. Now he's gone. Gallegos appear to be a factor.
It's a damn shame, for those that care more about the environment than petty politics.
Suzy, your voice is a POWERFUL thing. And it was heard by alot of people today. Having the courage to speak out is a rare and powerful thing. I think what Richard meant is he hopes there are more like you who will have that courage. To speak up. That simple act can change the course of history.
Richard (samoa) has also had that courage, and has been vilified for it, as have others who have stood up and spoken the truth about R. Trent Salzman, Local Solutions and Patrick Riggs.
Candidates for local offices should pay very close attention.
Suzy's My Word
http://www.times-standard.com/opinion/ci_4305675
"Do not lump every socially minded, responsible, moderate Democrat in with your radical extremist group. David Cobb, Richard Salzman and their Local Solutions cronies do NOT speak for me!"
Right on!
"Steve, who, exactly, is "after you?" I have read enough of your stuff to know that you have no clue about what is really going on within your much-villified progressive community, and are not worth wasting time on. There are real issues to be dealt with in Humboldt County, and you are not one of them.
If you are going to make a general accusation about folks, then please let me know who, exactly, you are accusing. That way I can check into it and determine if you are right or merely filled with paranoid delusions of your own self-importance.
My money is on the latter.
7:38 PM"
"THEY" are after me. Space aliens I believe they are, come here in flying microbuses and volvos years ago to divide our beloved community so they can conquer and then control us with invisible rays emanating from our screensavers. And they say, I'm out of touch with my community! Ha!
Ok, back to the real dream world. "They" was enviros starting with Darryl Cherney blasting away at me on KMUD in 1990 after I had the affrontery to quit "his" Redwood Summer when he led a violent Earth First! demonstration that completely violated our Redwood Summer Non-Violence Code all we Redwood Summer activists agreed to.
From then on every year would see my letters to the editor countered by enviros using their only weapon they can against me, slander as they couldn't overcome my environmental science, especially so since E.P.A. studies of the So. Fork of the Eel and the Mattole rivers confirmed what I was saying all along re homesteader eco-damage.
Go to the library and check the papers from 1990 to now if you don't believe me. I've been writing letters to the editor for years and years and pissing off people on a regular basis while I'm at it. Alas, it's what God put me on earth to do it seems..
Its not that the Democrats are 'married' to the Green Party; if that were so, why were the only Green candidates in Eureka intimidated out of their races by Riggs & Glass & Salzman? Its the same clique of corporation-fixated Loco Solutions-Demockery Limited clones who expect the rest of us to drink the Kool-Aid and submit to their control of both the Dem and Green organizations.
So, Steven, you're still stuck in 1990? Redwood Summer was 16 years ago! The world has moved on, but you haven't. This is like saying that the kid who stole your lunch money in 5th grade is still after you. Among most enviros I know, the most common response to your letters is "who's Steven Lewis?" You're not pissing people off, you're just causing folks to wonder "WTF is he talking about?"
Now, I'm not saying that you don't have some good ideas, but please focus on those things instead of grinding some 16-year-old axe. There are real issues to be addressed in this county, and trying to get back at Darryl Cherney for some slight in the past is not one of them. If you stop and look around, maybe you'll see that many of the "enviros" have been working on the very same issues that are important to you.
"Alas, it's what God put me on earth to do." This clinches it. Paranoid delusions of your own self-importance.
Tim,
I still have my dump geist stickers. I'm saving them next to my Walter Payton, Joe Montana, Pete Rose, and Nolan Ryan rookie cards. After all they may become collectibles too when she is Congresswoman or US Senator or something like that. lol
Mike Harvey
Thanks, Tim. That means he took it off the campaign disclosure forms. A very deliberative act, very carefully planned. I wondered how he had selected them. He doesn't know the community well enough to have known who to send them to otherwise. Fascinating.
"So, Steven, you're still stuck in 1990? Redwood Summer was 16 years ago! The world has moved on, but you haven't."
So, anon 9:11, you're still stuck on the second paragraph of my post, are you? That was only the beginning of my report of my experiences with enviros. The paragraphs moved on but you didn't. You need to learn to read posts all the way through before going off on your own rant.
Here's what you need to read again:
--From then on every year would see my letters to the editor countered by enviros using their only weapon they can against me, slander as they couldn't overcome my environmental science, especially so since E.P.A. studies of the So. Fork of the Eel and the Mattole rivers confirmed what I was saying all along re homesteader eco-damage.
Go to the library and check the papers from 1990 to now if you don't believe me. I've been writing letters to the editor for years and years and pissing off people on a regular basis while I'm at it. Alas, it's what God put me on earth to do it seems..--
Also, get a sense of humor, for God's sake. You are so set on smearing me that you can't even see when a puny post is put in front of you on these blogs.
Steven, I have never met you and I have no intent to smear you, but that does not mean that I will not respond to assertions that I believe are baseless. If you are going to regard any response that is not favorable to you as a "smear", then I would suggest that you have a persecution complex. From what I have read on these blogs, I believe that is likely the case anyway.
I have seen your letters in the papers, and I have seen that they are most commonly met with little or no interest or response. You never succeeded in raising any particular ire until your recent diatribe against Zionism, and the flak you got for that did not come from leftists, progressives, or environmentalists.
You asserted that "enviros" have been going after you since 1990, but all you have to offer is a vague reference, not even a quote, to something that Darryl Cherney supposedly said, and then a repeat of your unsupported assertion. You have provided nothing even approximating supporting material, here. Yes, you might as well be talking about space aliens for as little proof as you have.
Just because disagree with you does not mean there is a conspiracy to "get you." I am not after you. Cherney is not after you. EPIC is not after you. HWC is not after you. KMUD is not after you. The Bear River Tribe is not after you. No one is out to get you.
You seem like a bright guy with some good ideas, but you will never get your ideas across if you can't learn to work well with others, even those who may disagree with you. If you are able to drop your persecution issues, you may see some of your ideas start to gain some traction, but not if you're going to continue to throw stones.
"If you are going to regard any response that is not favorable to you as a "smear", then I would suggest that you have a persecution complex. From what I have read on these blogs, I believe that is likely the case anyway."
This is what I'm talking about. You just can't resist attempting to smear my reputation, can you. And your response is typical of what I have received from enviros since 1990.
"I have seen your letters in the papers, and I have seen that they are most commonly met with little or no interest or response."
You've got to be kidding. You ever visit my blogspot? I've gotten far more positive response with my columns than I ever gotten before. It seems like the more I expose Progressive activists as anti-community activists, the more positive response I get. The negative ones I've always gotten whenever I write something that people respond to positively which they do because what I write is truthful, backed up by science and good psychology whereas what they see in Progressives is this constant negation of anything positive--reactionary responses to the actions of others, i.e. NO VISION. I provide a vision, and people are responding---even people like you.
"You never succeeded in raising any particular ire until your recent diatribe against Zionism, and the flak you got for that did not come from leftists, progressives, or environmentalists."
Again, that shows you've never read my letters of the past years. The Zionists responding to my columns are far fewer in number than the enviros and Progs who have responded to my writings--a little over a handful, less than ten whereas Progs and enviros responding in letters and on mine and other blogs are much more numerous.
"You asserted that "enviros" have been going after you since 1990, but all you have to offer is a vague reference, not even a quote, to something that Darryl Cherney supposedly said, and then a repeat of your unsupported assertion. You have provided nothing even approximating supporting material, here. Yes, you might as well be talking about space aliens for as little proof as you have."
Again, I direct your lazy butt to the libraries to research the truth of what I say for yourself. I don't keep old letters putting me down. I don't know of anyone who does. But they are there for you to discover, that is if you have any intention of finding out the truth or just want to continue your bashing me in your ignorance or cynicism--you tell us.
"Just because disagree with you does not mean there is a conspiracy to "get you." I am not after you. Cherney is not after you. EPIC is not after you. HWC is not after you. KMUD is not after you. The Bear River Tribe is not after you. No one is out to get you."
If you'd read my past letters and even this response, you would see that I am responding to smears, not criticisms of my ideas which rarely comes from enviros anymore now that I proved my own environmental protection concerns with confirmation coming from E.P.A. studies that backed up everything I've been saying for years. You try putting out a real reasoned criticism of my activist work or ideas without resorting to smear tactics and I'll respond accordingly. I just hardly ever get this from enviros or Prog activists whose first response is to reach for their character assassination weapons. Like you have.
"You seem like a bright guy with some good ideas, but you will never get your ideas across if you can't learn to work well with others, even those who may disagree with you."
In order for community building activism to begin in earnest in Humboldt County, it will be necessary to compost the anti-community activist paradigm that has created and will continue to create needless division within our Humboldt community as a whole.
Progs and enviros promote division of the community by politically attacking others that they have separated from the community in terms of having any value to them--
e.g. all those workers who work for Palco or Evergreen Pulp or whatever corporate target is the current one on the chopping block for lawsuits, demos, whatever it takes to divide the community's support.
Another one happening right now is the Progs attempted division of support for the police department, e.g. Ken Miller's politically based "medical" advice".
Progs don't know anything else but protest, reaction to others doing stuff. They are without vision for how to unite the community and that is why I have to show this is true in order for all of us to move forward. Without exposing the anti-community bias of Progressive politics, Progressives will continue to believe themselves to hold the key to social change in Humboldt County when such leadership only continues the division of Humboldt County citizens.
Progressive activism is anti-community and will be replaced by the better social change paradigm I am bringing to the community's attention: Communitarian activism. I am not about to step intellectually or morally backwards and cater to Progressive anti-community policies and social change agenda. Progs have lost the moral high ground a long time ago and it's only a matter of time before the whole Humboldt community realizes that. But they are, thanks to the continuing proof their public icon is providing these days..
Now the community has a choice of which future they want to support: a re-run of the Cold War that Progs and enviros have delivered for the last two decades without any lasting resolution of their issues, e.g. ownership and management of Palco, or real progress towards cooperative community building, the Communitarian alternative.
I think you will see that once a better social change paradigm has been presented Progressive activists will lose more and more support from the general public which is pretty damn sick and tired of the constant social warfare going on in Humboldt County due to activists dividing the community into hostile camps.
What you've got to ask yourself is why you think I'm "a bright guy with some good ideas" when you think nobody listens to me and that I've got a persecution complex. You're either for me or agin' me, so stop fence-sitting and help me organize cooperative community solutions or stick with Progressive dismantlement of Humboldt County social and economic infra-structure.
Steve, me thinks thou dost protest too much!
6:06 here (that wasn't me at 8:10.)
Steve, I commented that you "seem like a bright guy with some good ideas," but I also said that "if you are going to regard any response that is not favorable to you as a "smear", then I would suggest that you have a persecution complex."
You responded to that comment by saying that I am a lazy, ignorant, cynical, anti-community reactionary with no vision, who is intellectually and morally backwards, pedals in divisive, politically-based character assasination and social warfare, and who has lost the moral high-ground. Amidst this stream of name-calling, you accused me of trying to smear you. Excuse me? Just who is doing the smearing, here?
Clearly, you are asking for one set of rules for you, and a different set for anyone with a different opinion.
Yes, I do honestly believe you have a persecution complex. I now also believe you are a hypocrite.
Anon 11:41, do you know the difference between telling the truth and telling lies about people?
If you accuse me of something, you'd better have some proof ready and not just character assassination either--what I accused you of is truth--you didn't read past the 2nd paragraph and went off on your smear job.
What I say about enviros and Progs is truth. I can back up everthing I say with examples. I am not smearing them. I am telling the truth. There's a difference and you'd be better off learning it.
Considering the amount of criticism I have received in the past and present, is it any wonder that I would be on the defensive about slander? Please use some common sense. There's a difference between perceiving persecution when there is none or very little and perceiving it when it's there.
Anon, here's the peace I offer Progressives and enviros. Quit allegience to the anti-community Leftist philosophy you are following that wants to create social warfare in our community. Quit the Leftist hypocrisy of pointing the fingers of guilt only at corporate capitalists. Quit the Leftist attack on community individuals who have shown proof of community support and work with all individuals in the community who desire to see a better quality of life for all individuals living here.
I only need to see real community concern shown by activists and I will welcome them and their work. But what I see and have seen for way too many years is this Leftist need to create social warfare to do the Leftist way of social change. Traditional Leftist politics are bankrupt--the fall of the Communist world showed that. Leftists don't have a clue when it comes to creating a viable, sustainable economy because all their expertise is concentrated on political warfare. It's the same here in Humboldt County. And why should any of us have to re-live the mistakes of the Cold War?
The difference between Communitarian activism and Leftist, Progressive activism is simple: Communitarians are concerned for the community, all of it, while Leftist Progressives separate the community into politically correct camps. Those that agree with Leftist values are championed against those that do not agree with Leftist values. And a social war is created in which truth is the first casualty, the environment the second, and community relationships the third victim of war.
Give peace a chance. Compost Progressive activism and become a Communitarian.
Here's my persecution complex at work. The posts below were posted today on Eric's blog.
Now why I see these considerate and well reasoned suggestions for improving my ethics, for stop being a phony Christian, for denying I have any faults even though it's tru..oops, for being totally blind to my "real" self(?), for being obnoxious, for being unable to present my ideas effectively..now why I see these as well-intentioned guidance from concerned members of the community, I don't know what to say. Chock it up to paranoia I guess..
""I don't hate my Humboldt neighbors."
So you don't have any "prog" or "enviro" neighbors? You certainly hate them.
You're being devious, Steve, as usual. In your earlier comment you were speaking more generally:
"All you have to do is stop looking for ways to hate your neighbor who doesn't hold the same political philosophy as you and start living by the Golden Rule."
You were playing Jesus again, saying "love your neighbor as yourself". But you can't keep that charade up for long. It just isn't natural to you.
"If my community building social change ideas are faulty, I want to know about it."
No you don't. People repeatedly show you your faults and hypocrisy and you just keep denying it endlessly while proving them right. You're so up in your head with a fantasy idea of yourself that you're totally blind to your real self.
8:43 PM
Anonymous said...
Steve is obnoxious plain and simple. He might be smart and he might tell some truth. Unfortunately, it is all lost in the presentation. Who could like him? Really.
8:45 PM
Anonymous said...
Some people like him -- creepy people like Rose, who share his narrow-minded hatred of "progs" and "enviros".
8:58 PM
Let's see, at the rate I'm getting slammed in blogs and letters to the editor, say 5-10 per day average (counting the few blogs I visit) for the last three weeks I'd say I've established a reasonabe right to feel "persecuted" under the dictionary's definition of that word. The therapy suggested by my guidance councelor is to expose the persecutors to the light and they will melt into sulphurous, smoking goo, and evaporate into smog.
But I will pray for their souls like the good Christian I am.
Ok. I'll shut up now.
I just read this whole thread ! Very interesting. Good to see there are some logical thinking dem's in HC.
For the record, most all of my friends are "progressives." "liberals" "democrats" and, yes, "enviros" to one degree or another. Actually, they are all much more complex individuals, and stupid labels do not and should not, define them.
My "narrow-minded hatred" is reserved for lying dishonest manipulative individuals.
Simple as that.
And, like Suzy, above, I choose to speak out rather than remain silent and allow the lies to go unchallenged.
Thanks, Rose. 11:41 here. Though I don't often agree with your opinions, and may even take issue with the way you present some facts, I truly appreciate that you do not generalize or label a broad cross-section of our community, as Steve too-often does. I don't have to agree with you to respect you.
I don't for a second deny that there are whackos, crazies, and extremists on the left (and on the right, and in the middle, too!) but too much of the labling around here gets in the way of intelligent conversation.
I wish Steve could limit his attacks and accusations to specific indivduals, rather than lumping all liberals and progessives into one bag. His generalizations are unfair, inaccurate, and not helpful in any way. Such divisiveness is certainly inconsistent with his claims of being a "communitarian."
Steve - you are your own worst enemy. You want recognition but for what? You have joined the ranks of Leo Sears... your ranting overpowers your message.
The way I see it, if Steve Lewis doesn't rant, who will? The political change that is about to happen and is happening in Humboldt County is very much a steamroller effect. The working class are not seeing it coming. They are too busy holding down jobs, raising kids and keeping their nose to the grindstone to see their way of life completely eroding away.
A local historian notes this new movement of people into Humboldt County as being much like a tribe. The new tribe is trying to succeed in driving away the fomer tribe of post war timber workers and fishermen. Sure, the last tribe had their time and did well working off of the land. You can blame their environmental disasters on lack of knowledge of resource use. But, rather than help push them out of existence, perhaps we could have some leadership that could see both worlds and introduce skills and knowledge from both tribes into one community that could thrive together.
Until we have that kind of leadership, we are going to have the progressives and environmentalist trying to dominate a society that only benefits their ideals. After all, who built the very towns and homes that they live in. It was the former tribe. The newcomers have great ideas, but don't have the abilities to build it. The old guard has shown they have the tools (including money) to build most anything, but often lack the ideas for adapting for the future.
We need to marry those ideas instead of coming up with an entire social change. Let's not butt heads and let's not BE buttheads and knuckle down and do something positive with the community resources we have. Because truthfully, that's all we have left.
The blue collar workers are going to have to realize a new era is coming. But the recently relocated govenment workers and non-profits are going to have to understand the old guards pride in building this Humboldt community thus far.
When the day comes when we see the Humboldt County Health and Human Services buildings as rotting skeletons much like we see The Simpson Pulp building or the Eel River sawmill in Redcrest or the remaining remnants of the the fishing industry on the bay, you'll understand the sentiment.
The current local hardline progressive and environmental political machines, as my father use to say, aren't worth the powder to blow to Hell. There is going to have to be a new movement from within both sides to right this listing ship. And it's a good ship. Worthy of saving.
...perhaps we could have some leadership that could see both worlds and introduce skills and knowledge from both tribes into one community that could thrive together.
This is what we have now. Anyone who is not aware of that is still stuck in 1990.
Environmentalists are working to preserve working timber lands in sustainable timber production.
Environmentalists are working to ease regulations for small ranch and timberland owners, so as to prevent the loss of their lands to development.
Environmentalists are working with developers to improve housing affordability and to bring better ideas for good growth.
Environmentalists are working to focus good development into our exisiting communities, and away from our fragile watersheds.
Environmentalists are working with public health agencies to create healthier, more livable communities.
Environmenatlists are working with planners, developers and city governments to find funding solutions for our decaying infrastructure.
Environmentalists are working to strengthen the most promising sectors of our local economy, including small manufacturing and our excellent local beef and organic dairy products.
Are there still folks blasting away at PL? Yes, of course, because that company continues to cause harm to its neighbors, and continues to log at a rate that is 2-4 times higher than any other timber company on the North Coast. PL's financial issues and its environmetal issues are inseparable, and you cannot fix one without addressing the other. Addressing the harm to its neighbors means bringing the rate of harvest down to a reasonable level that is consistent with every other timber company on the North Coast. This will be much better for the long term health of our local timber economy, because it does not steal from the future to subsidize an unsustainable business plan.
The Home Depot project is another example of where environmental concerns are hand in hand with regional economic concerns. The City of Eureka has already studied the potential impact of a Home Depot on the local economy, and determined that it would cause more harm to exisiting local businesses than a WalMart! The City's own study showed that a Home Depot would likely take 75% of all hardware and building materials sales within the City of Eureka, and 50% of all such sales within the county. That would have a drastic impact on local business, leading to significant job losses, store closures, and blight, and putting more people on public assistance. Coincidentally, the project is simply illegal, in that it is inconsistent with every single law governing the use of that land. Period. Again, being against this project does not make one against business or industry, it makes one for good business and industry.
The liberal/progressive agenda is not to shut down business, but to recognize that not all businesses are good for the local economy or for the environment. The strongest arguments against PL are economic arguments. The strongest arguments against the Home Depot project are economic arguments. The strongest arguments against sprawl are economic arguments. We can make choices to guide our future, rather than letting it be merely the byproduct of private business interests. That is the progressive environmentalist vision.
BS 5:36
B-S.
B.S. = Brilliant Statement
Face it. No one posting here cares to really consider the issues. Its all about dissing the other poster.
"The liberal/progressive agenda is not to shut down business, but to recognize that not all businesses are good for the local economy or for the environment."
Pot business is good for the environment? What hypocrisy! What environmental hypocrisy in attacking only corporate eco-damagers and letting the pro-Progressive homestead community doing the most eco-damage go virtually without a single raised complaint from Progressives or enviros.
It is the gross hypocrisy of Progressives that will be their downfall. Corporations are not the problem here. People are. Yet Progressives train themselves to ignore the people because it's so much easier to attack an individual or a corporation than it is to address the complexity of educating large groups of people besides not getting any special front-page newsworthness out of such quiet social change.
I challenge Progressives to put forth their economic general plan for Humboldt County--where they see the replacement coming from if Palco goes down, Evergreen Pulp, Arkley's Balloon Track development. All I've seen publicly presented by Progs are voodoo economic proposals, i.e., ones that rely on outside industrial communities that create the foundations and government surpluses that Progs are looking for as grants for funding new more or less non-profit enterprises paying high salaries to the higher educated class of people Progs draw from. Meanwhile the majority of Humboldt citizens are not employed by such organizations but must rely on corporate employers to be able to receive decent living wages.
When you take the industrial base away from an area it dies economically. Progs consistently attack the industrial base of Humboldt County. Why should anyone here want what Progs want? I mean, who wants to give up a decent living wage or who wants to give up buying a home or who wants to see their kids forced to move to other industrial based communities to find work?
Progs aren't thinking of the majority of Humboldt citizens in their plans. They want to make a Humboldt that is home to people just like themselves, i.e. liberal-Lefties able to live off grants, able to make arts and crafts and open up boutique businesses, able to get government grants, able to grow dope and sell it, able to arrange rock concerts and art shows, but these economic activities do not make for a viable, sustainable economy for the majority of Humboldt citizens and they never will.
Progs are victims of the Leftist movement and are still stuck in the Cold War where Lefties fight the capitalists to the bitter end. Meanwhile the Soviet Union folds and China is forced to go capitalist because nowhere have militant Lefties created a lasting, sustainable economy or society. So, in never learning their lesson from history, Progs are forcing all of us to re-enact the failures others have experienced and moved on from years ago.
But I generalize so I'm told. To Progs that agree with what I say or some of it, speak up and show me that you all aren't cut from the same old mold.
They have a Master Plan, Stephen. It is called "The Transition Mission."
They're baaaaaack.
It is called "The Transition Mission."
Sorry, Rose, you lost me on this one. I have never heard of any such thing. You and Steve give us "progressives" far more credit than we deserve with your assertion that we are highly organized. We are really just a bunch of folks from all walks of life and all income levels, all just trying to do what we can to make the world and our community a better place. There is no Master Plan.
It all depends on who "they" is 8:17. Is it the larger largely well-intentioned populace, or is it the secretive little group that hides behind orgs with euphemistic titles?
No, I wasn't referring to you. But "they" know exactly what I am talking about.
Anon 8:17, Progressives are operating under a political paradigm, a version of the Leftist one that created all the Cold War problems of the last century. Anti-corporate capitalist activism is historically passe--god, millions of people spent decades and decades trying to overthrow the capitalism and succeeded only in killing their countrymen in fruitless wars that in the end established nothing worthy of continuing on as social progress. Examples? The remaining Communist countries.
Don't you think every trick in the militant socialist book has been tried to effect mass change in capitalist societies? The reason the revolutions failed to materialize in any developed nation is that the capitalist system has provided social stability and progress for too many people to want to risk change for something unknown.
Add to this risk is the fact that socialistic alternatives have tanked in all the major countries where they've been tried.
But there are working cooperative examples--but Lefties never seem to promote them because they're too busy organizing the next bashing of corporate capitalists.
Communitarian activism. It's the only fresh social change vision around. And for one counterculture activist practicing it, it sure has proven to open a whole lot of doors closed to Progressive activists.
Stephen Lewis said: All I've seen publicly presented by Progs are voodoo economic proposals, i.e., ones that rely on outside industrial communities that create the foundations and government surpluses that Progs are looking for as grants for funding new more or less non-profit enterprises paying high salaries to the higher educated class of people Progs draw from. Meanwhile the majority of Humboldt citizens are not employed by such organizations but must rely on corporate employers to be able to receive decent living wages."
Exactly. The educated liberal elite couldn't care less about proletarian lifestyle. But, they definitely would like to see a two class society. Bring us your downtrodden so we may reap the benefits from our non-profit grants and our own governmental assistance programs.
Suzy Gaxiola should identify herself which she never has in any of her letters to the newspaper as being either the present or former president of The DIscovery museum...hmmmm no wonder why she always has somthing to say about the opposing side...its funny that a dem would jump in to a republicans pocket...but only if the price is right huh.. Suzie...
Stephen, you have once again ignored the facts which were presented to you so that you could respond with same old, tired and unsubstantiated assertions and generalizations.
Face it, Stephen, YOU are the one who exists for no reason other than to divide the community. You never provide anything positive or constructive, just more bashing of your imagined "progressive" conspiracy. You NEED to create this imaginary threat so that you can continue to scare folks. You then say that you have an idyllic "communitarian" plan that will lead us all to the promsied land, but you have no specifics.
You talk about your "Heartlands" project (which also has no specifics,) but even the Bear River Tribe which is supposed to be the focus of that project has effectively disowned you.
You lash out at anyone who doesn't agree with you, including EPIC, HWC, KMUD, the Bear River Tribe, the Time-Standard, the Eureka Reporter and others because, of course, the only explanation for why they might not follow you is that there is a conspiracy, and they are all out to get you.
You are the Joe McCarthy of local bloggers. Any perceived significance you may have is entirely dependent upon having a hidden enemy that you can use to scare people. You are nobody without an enemy, and you are willing to do and say anything to foment your conspiracy theories just to make yourself feel important.
Interestly enough, just like David Cobb.
"You never provide anything positive or constructive, just more bashing of your imagined "progressive" conspiracy."
Sorry, but my social change resume includes co-organizing a commune that produced Communities Magazine, the leading magazine on communitarian information in the U.S, which is still being published.
I co-organized the land trust with Rick Klein who himself started Ancient Trees International.
I organized and ran The Bridge, a community activist resource center and meeting hall in Garberville that hosted I don't know how many community meetings in its five years of existence, ranging from Vets for Peace monthly meetings to official C.R. classes to Redwood Summer organizing ones where I became a Redwood Summer organizer in 1990 co-organizing community dialogue meetings between timber company execs and and local environmentalists and concerned citizens.
I went on in 1991 to become the only environmental activist to be able to directly influence Palco decision-making by becoming CEO John Campbell's environmental consultant and liaison between PL and EPIC. This experience in 1991 was where my doubts about environmental activist leadership were confirmed.
I watched EPIC ruin environmental protection opportunities that would make you sick today to know about if they could have not done what they did--Example? Try 20,000 stream corridor acres of old growth trees on every blue line or fish-bearing stream throughout all of PL's 200,000 acres. All the old growth trees that were offered to be set aside in that 20,000 are probably gone by now.
EPIC cost all of us thousands and thousand of unnecessary loss of old-growth because EPIC does not have a clue how to negotiate to protect the environment. All they know is how to litigate and that has never accomplished the job. But Progs buy into the EPIC/Humboldt Watershed Council/Forest Defender/Earth First! party line because it's politically correct and in line with the old Leftist anti-corporate political agenda. Meanwhile, Humboldt County loses more and more trees because enviros and Progs haven't done a damn thing to stop Hurwitz doing more or less what he wants to with PL.
That's why I organized the Heartlands Plan with Bear River's Tribal Council in 1995 through '98. It was a feasible plan for getting PL back Maxxam ownership and put back in community hands. And of course, enviros didn't lift a finger to help because they didn't want ndns stealing their Saving Headwaters icon away that they had put so much time and energy to create. No way ndns would get the credit or Steve Lewis. So another environmental opportunity went by the enviro boards.
Now it's happening again. Instead of offering to help me and the Bear River tribal members that were part of the old Heartlands project and are still willing to go forward with it in spite of current Tribal Council opposition, Progs and enviros are attacking the Heartlands organizer.
I have no reason not to feel the way I do about Progs and enviros. They accuse me of all sorts of crap but they never offer anything better. Where is their saving the rest of all the old growth trees on PL? Where is their plan to replace Hurwitz' ownership with employee ownership like our Heartlands Plan calls for?
I get tired of these anons who only seem to want parade their bigotry against those who can work with all types of community members in order to accomplish community building goals. Where's your resume of community activist accomplishment, anon, who tells me I haven't put my money, my time, and years of my life where my mouth is.
I promise you, if Progs offered any sort of vision besides endless lawsuits against corporations and demonstrations for Leftist causes, I would have been willing to work with them, but the Progressive vision for helping all members of the community just does not exist and never will while the Leftist politically correct anti-corporate capitalism paradigm is their dominating social change philosophy.
Been there, done that, and we need to move on to something that works.
Blah, blah, blah...
Anonymous 5:36 PM said... "The City of Eureka has already studied the potential impact of a Home Depot on the local economy, and determined that it would cause more harm to existing local businesses than a Wal-Mart! The City's own study showed that a Home Depot would likely take 75% of all hardware and building materials sales within the City of Eureka, and 50% of all such sales within the county."
Please cite this document studied by the City of Eureka, the firm which was hired to do the study and the date completed.
The great thing about dealing with R. Trent Salzman and (Corn on the) Cobb is that when presented with facts they suddenly get very quiet or move on to other issues to lie, cheat and steal.
The worse thing about a blog is R. Trent Salzman can lie all day long and his minions believe his propaganda like the gospel of "Mein Kampf".
Economic Impacts Assessment for New Retail Development, Eureka, California, by Bay Area Economics, August 1999.
Here are a few excerpts:
“A new big-box home improvement center in Eureka would likely have a greater impact on existing stores in both the City and other parts of the County (than a general merchandise store such as a WalMart).”
“The average Home Depot store has annual sales of $40 million. Even if a new store in Eureka only had sales of $30 million, this would amount to approximately one-third of all 2005 sales in this category in the County, and would be about 75 percent of the City’s current sales. A new discount home improvement center would therefore be likely to capture substantial sales from existing outlets in the retail building materials/farm implements category as well as from wholesale dealers and contractors in both Eureka and surrounding areas.”
“A large retail center such as a new big-box retailer, once developed, will require some level of municipal services in subsequent years. The annual maintenance of additional traffic signals, police and fire department calls to the center, and other services such as landscape maintenance may require additional resources impacting the City’s General Fund. The increased level of activity in each department also effects the administrative component of city government, thus increasing general administrative costs citywide.”
Stakeholder interviews from the BAE study:
Henderson Center Merchants Association:
“Furthermore, the Merchants Association’s representative stated that there are better uses for the Balloon Tract than constructing a big-box store, and that the community should look for other options for this major waterfront location. With respect to a national home improvement discounter moving to Eureka, the Merchants Association representative expects that this would be very harmful to the City’s existing hardware, paint, and home improvement businesses. In addition, lumber wholesalers would also suffer because the area’s contractors would be likely to shift their buying behavior and make the bulk of their purchases from the new discount store, should one be built.”
“The Merchants Association’s representative also questions the City’s emphasis on sales tax revenue generation at the expense of local merchants…”
Eureka Chamber of Commerce:
“The Chamber of Commerce representative felt that the presence of an additional general merchandise discounter such as Wal-Mart is likely to have a negative impact on local retail in Eureka, as well as on retailers in Myrtletown, and in nearby cities such as Fortuna and Arcata.”
“In addition to expressing concern that on net, jobs would be lost, the Chamber’s representative noted that national discounters who come into a City like Eureka seem to have a different agenda from locally owned retailers who are more vested in the community.”
Sorry to burst your bubble, 2:48, but I always have my facts in line and ready to go before I post.
Economic Impacts Assessment for New Retail Development, Eureka, California, by Bay Area Economics, August 1999
Page 61 - By 2005, total taxable retail sales in the building materials/farm implements category are projected to increase by $10 million to over $93 million annually.
Fact - 2004 the actual building materials and garden supplies (but no farm implements) was over $136 million.
I hate to burst your bubble 4:56 but your facts are just wrong. The world has changed; real progress is coming...
I'm looking forward to shopping at Home Depot.
I will still shop at Pierson's, Ace, Thomas and Forbusco, and I will still buy lumber at Schmidbauer.
When I go to Santa Rosa, I check out Home Depot, and on occassion I have made my purchases there even if it meant renting a U-Haul.
If Pierson's business goes down it will either be because he lowers his level of service and selection OR because the current interest in home decorating and renovation that babay boomers have has dies off. Right now, home improvement centers and nurseries are reaping the benefit of the baby boomers cocooning.
You do not need to fear progress, progressives.
Let the free market decide.
5:12, would you care to provide your source?
Pierson has been without real competition for how long? Doesn't competition help everyone?
I have to shop at the store with the lowest prices. It doesn't make sense for people on fixed incomes to pander to a few shopkeepers trying to get more dollars out of our wallets and purses. This is the economic reality for a large segment of Humboldt County that Progressives are failing to face--once again because politically correct Leftist ideology says stop the corporate capitalist business even if it hurts the little guy as Progressive opposition to discount stores does.
I formulated a communitarian alternative to big boxes last year for our Heartlands Project. Will be posting it soon on my blogsite.
Funny, for all of the responses to my 4:56 post, no one has actually countered with any facts or arguments, other than a claim (without any source) that the local buiding materials market has actually increased more than predicted by the BAE study. A red-herring, of course, as it in no way disproves the findings of the BAE study. Just shows that the potential chunk which a Home Depot may take could be even larger than predicted.
5:33, you are in the vast minority up here, in that Humboldt County's building materials market has very little retail "leakage" outside of the area. This is an often-heard claim, but again, the facts show that it is false.
Looks like you guys are the ones who don't have any facts to back up your arguments. Basically, you all are saying that you are going to believe what you want to believe, facts-be-damned.
no, i'm saying i don't care about the survey, because i can make up my own mind where i want to shop, and i like having choices. if i don't end up buying at home depot, they will leave just like pay n pak did years ago, and incidentally, when they were here, they were also competition for pierson's and guess what, we all shopped at both places. the world didn't end. but we had more to choose from, and it was much more FUN
IMHO
The point is that a Home Depot will leave the community with FEWER choices, as they kill off the competition. Home Depot has an openly admitted strategy of using their massive resources to subsidize new stores. They use artificially-low prices on all of the most lucrative product lines, forcing their local competitors to have to look to less-lucrative lines. HD then takes over all of the primary product lines, sidelining the competition. Once the competition is gone, the prices come back up. This has been confirmed to me by a former HD store manager.
Go to the library in any town which has a Home Depot. Compare old phone books with current ones, and you will find that there are far fewer hardware and building supply stores than there were before HD came to town. Home Depot means fewer choices.
I wasn't going to post anything here, but this thread only needed one more post to make it 100.
Yes, please go to the library in Eureka and compare old phone books (Yellow Pages). Please check to see how many stores have went out of business since 1996, 1986.
And this is without a Wal-Mart or Home Depot in town.
Typical small-businesses have a 50%+ failure rate. That's life with or without corporate competition.
Pierson’s Building Supply leaves the community with FEWER choices. It does not give us any choices.
I have to buy all my major home supplies in Redding or Ukiah because there is no Home Depot in town.
BTW, I did not take one cent of Bill Pierson money. Can your masters say that?
Pierson's is a great store. The koi pond alone is worth the visit. But my contractor friends do not shop there unless they have to.
Belle Starr is a great store as well, and has major competition at the mall. She survives and succeeds. And there are many like her.
Daly's died because the old style department ster became outmoded. Gottschalk's which had the same model managed to hold on by evolving, adapting and moving where the traffic was.
Go to other areas and see Home Depot, Lowe's, Yard Birds all in the same general area and all doing booming business...
Why be so afraid?
William S. Pierson is truly a gifted art photographer.
You can't say that about Robert L. Nardelli.
That's it. I'm voting Pierson's Building Supply as my home improvement center on November 7th.
Besides, I live in a Pierson built home. I kind of feel obligated.
It's Hammer Time!
Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death...
(Bill) Pierson don't build homes. His newphew Greg Pierson builds homes.
And Greg Pierson shops at Home Depot for his building supplies.
Yes, Dune. Frank Herbert. Paul Atreides. "Fear is the mind killer" and locally, fear is the death of progress, and of business. Fear brings stagnation. I thought we were more enlightened and open.
thats sad greg pierson doesnt support the business his grandfather worked hard to create...that shows the kind of scum that he is
Unfortunately Anonymous 4:56 PM (or should I say R. Trent?), you pick and choose only a few select facts.
Let’s review page 51, paragraph 4 quotes from Ukiah’s Finance Director and Associate Planner, “If anything, Friedman’s (Freidman Brothers, a regional home-improvement chain) has “made (the smaller stores) more competitive” and many have “thrived”.
Wow, just think if Pierson’s had to actually compete and made MORE profit than today.
And again on page 52, paragraph 2, “Chico has not seen significant changes as a result of Wal-Mart’s arrival in March 1994.”
Continued on page 52, paragraph 3, “Wal-Mart has made little or no impact to Downtown Chico.”
What this August 11, 1999 85-page report states is that if local businesses adapt and compete, many will not only survive, but thrive.
Sadly a first year MBA student could produce a better report today. There were so many glaring financial projection errors in this report (0% sales growth for seven years?), not too mention the constant flip-flop of projections.
The most telling story was found on page 4, Table 2, where it estimates the 1998 Eureka Household Income Distribution with 29% of the households earning less than $15,000 annually and 20% of the households earning $15,000-$24,999 annually.
Simple math: that’s 49% of our average Eureka household earning less than $25,000 per year. Almost half our households barely above the poverty line!
So why are Chris Kerrigan, Peter LaVallee and Bonnie Neely against Home Depot?
Follow the 460s (financial disclosure forms) and the financial contributions from Bill Pierson. They’re not “bought and paid for” are they?
Does Kerrigan have another Pierson cap I can borrow when I get my picture in the Times-Standard?
When checking the 460s, be sure to go back to December of last year. That’s when Pierson likes to contribute to candidates (LaVallee and Neely in December 2005) as the local reporters are too lazy to do their homework and only check the year 2006.
Bottom line is you can pray on the fears of the poor. We need jobs in Eureka.
Why the hell is some Trinidad fraud or a little Commie Arcata bastard telling us Eurekans what we should do?
Go back to your own towns. Last I checked, Trinidad and Arcata have more than their share of political dysfunction. We don't need your politics, thank you.
10:27 did you know that piersons gives those hat away for free
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