How Rude!
I can't help but think it's kind of rude that the feds, or whomever is responsible, brought to light an investigation involving the late Norm Vroman, past District Attorney of Mendocino County. Looks like they might have dropped the whole thing now, but it still makes the news.
Apparently they believed they had evidence of marijuana being grown of Vroman's property and suspected he might have some illegal weapons in his gun collection. You'd think, if they really felt he had illegal weapons, they'd go ahead and proceed with the search warrants regardless of his death.
I agree with Mendocino's past sheriff, quoted in the article, that it's too bad they didn't proceed with the searches so they could have cleared up any doubts. Bringing this story out now just dumps dirt on the guy.
You can't help but wonder if certain political operatives in Mendocino were behind this since Vroman is still on the ballot down there.
Interesting that this showed up in the Santa Rosa Press- Democrat and not the Ukiah Daily Journal, at least not yet.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 8:01 AM
29 comments
29 Comments:
Rude? What about the public's right to know? With what is known about Vroman I wouldn't be surprised if he had a "215 grow" at his place! "at least 25" outdoor plants ! That's a lot of weed! Even if he only gets a pound per plant, more like 3-7 per. And I doubt if ole Normy was smoking all that himself. Remember Norm went to prison for tax fraud or evasion, he has shown he's not opposed to breaking the law, especially federal law.
The real rub here is that the ATF and DEA had to go to the FBI public corruption unit to get the help they needed. Why because the other feds were afraid to touch a sacred cow, a high profile politiican. If the feds would have served the search warrant while Norm was in ICU you and others would be bitching about that being rude and horrible. I'll bet the decision not to serve the search warrant was made because the feds didn't want to take the flak for picking on Norm while he was in the hospital in danger of dying.
That article also brought up the issue of Norm using drug asset forfeiture money to buy MACHINEGUNS AND SILENCERS for his office !!! And spent $39,000.00 for firearms training ? Wow. ! I seriously doubt that the Humboldt DA's office has any machineguns or silencers ! Take in consideration Humboldt and Mendocino county are about the same population, same size DA's office, and I'm guessing about the same amount of investigators. I would also bet that the Humboldt Sheriffs Office and EPD don't have any silencers either! And $39,000.00 for firearms training ! Compare that to what our DA's office spends, EPD spends, APD spends? Something was out of whack. And tell me Fred, or anyone, what does a small DA's office need with machineguns and silencers? I'd love to have a silencer for a .22 so I could shoot in my backyard, but I understand why it is not allowed. Imagine if silencers were readily available !
Norm Vroman gave us Time Stoen and then after Stoen messed up Humboldt Norm took him back? Norm is a good friend of Humboldt DA Paul Gallegos. Paul Gallegos donated several hundred dollars to Norm's re-election. Let's just hope Humboldt doesn't get Kool Aid man back.
Rude ? No just a little too late. Politicans need to be exposed for what they do. Many of these small time politicians, and big time, think they are immune from laws. Remember what happened to former Humboldt Sheriff Dave Renner ? Convicted felon Dave Renner.
The public has a right to know, good for the Press Democrat. Maybe the FBI Public Corruption Unit will work it's way north !
What Eric, no comment ? What are you waiting for ? I expected to get beat up on this one.
Hey Fred, I guess it's not that rude. Nobody seems to be outraged.
11:38 wrote,"Imagine if silencers were readily available !".
Wouldn't bother me.
He also wrote, "Politicans need to be exposed for what they do.".
Except this is all based on suspicion and they didn't follow through even though they supposedly could have, according to them.
It's like them going to the papers and saying they had a solid case against you for possessing and distributing child pornography, but they decided not to serve the warrant anyway.
Your reputation gets dragged through the dirt and then you're stuck trying to prove you didn't have something.
They should have served the warrants and, if they found or didn't find anything, then go to the press. If they didn't find anything, I'm sure some people would still wonder, but now I suspect a lot more people are wondering.
Oh I agree they should have served the warrants. Before Norm's heart attack, but the fed politicians put up roadblocks because Norm was a DA, dipite being a small county it is a powerful position. They were affraid to take the heat, or be responsible. Same thing once Norm had the heart attack, oh no we might take some heat if we do it now. Norm wanted to be in the big spot light and he got what he wanted. Norm has been associated with some shady characters, Tim Stoen for one!
And Fred you wouldn't mind if people could buy silencers down at Big 5 ?
And what about the DA having machineguns and silencers ? No comment on that ? Holy shit Fred even LA County DA's office doesn't have machineguns and silencers, and their DA isn't a convicted felon !
Sometimes I'm amazed at what you think is OK.
"And Fred you wouldn't mind if people could buy silencers down at Big 5 ?".
Who cares how loud someone's gun is? Apparently you do. I don't.
"And what about the DA having machineguns and silencers ? No comment on that ?".
Nope. That's Mendocino County's business. Some people in Mendocino aren't happy about it, or at least about him spending asset forfeiture money on it. Some of the anti- Vroman faction filed suit, or some such, over it. I posted links to some news articles from the Ukiah Daily Journal here some time back.
"Sometimes I'm amazed at what you think is OK.".
Full of surprised, aren't I? To know me is to love me. :-)
Well Freddy if that's Mendocino County's business then why did you make this post in the first place ? It's the fed's & Mendocino County's business ?
And if it's Mendocino County's business why did you post links to some news articles from the Ukiah Daily Journal some time back?
I'm a bit confused at your rational. You're starting to sound like a politician.
To tell you the truth Fred I'm disappointed that Vroman didn't get an official visit from the ATF,DEA, and the FBI. He was probably very deserving. Unfortunately we'll never know for sure.
Holy cow nobody wants to touch this one.
4:29 wrote, "Well Freddy if that's Mendocino County's business then why did you make this post in the first place ? It's the fed's & Mendocino County's business ?".
Because I find Mendocino County business interesting sometimes and I can opine on Whatever I feel like.
If the folks here or in Mendocino County have a problem with someone in office owning silencers, then opine away. I don't have a problem with anyone owning silencers.
Was it a proper expenditure of taxpayer's money? Looks a bit curious to me, but that's for the Mendocino County people to fight over as far as actually dealing with it.
The reason I brought this up in the first place was because of investigating agencies and the media releasing details of a search warrant(s) that they decided not to serve, after all was said and done, thus putting someone's reputation into doubt. I think that's a valid issue regardless of where one lives.
Again; I don't think you'd want some law enforcement agency where you live going to the press and saying they had good evidence of you being in possession of kiddie porn but they decided it wasn't worth the hassle to follow through with the investigation.
That's just about like prosecuting someone's reputation without even having to deal with the court process.
Seems to me that's an issue worth opining on regardless of where the original event took place.
Well it's probably not a bad idea to have a go at Norm Vroman's rep. He's a public offical, or was, and he enjoyed all the benefit from that office so he, as a public official, is held to a higher standard right ?
I hope Tim Stoen doesn't have a key to the machinegun locker !
Just think of the Kool Aid King with a machinegun fitted with a silencer ?
Must not be that rude, no one's commented for awhile.
Probably scares the living shit out of ...... somebody in Humboldt knowing that the FBI has a public corruption section.
Vroman was previously convicted of a felony - I believe it was tax evasion/money laundering with links to marijuana....that he became the DA in mendo, hired stoen and supported Gallegos just shows that DA's can be corrupt...
He should have been arrested and prosecuted himself.
Just goes to show you that issues like the lack of honesty, integrity, and character can't keep shady people from being elected.
10:36 wrote,"convicted of a felony - I believe it was tax evasion/".
Yep. I believe it was failure to report income, or some such. So what? My kind of guy.
really fred ?
Fred- This is the first time that I am ashamed at you and I usually adore you.
Your kind of guys? Do you mean money laundering meth dealers are your kind of guys too.
Bad Fred - no doughnut!
I never heard anything about money laundering. He was convicted some years ago for failing to file income taxes. I understand he believed he didn't have to ( admittedly a losing defense, whether true or not).
I must have missed the part about the meth dealers. I thought I read that they thought he had something like 25 pot plants on his property. No big deal there, especially in Mendocino County.
Of course, we'll never know, will we? They decided not to bother proving it. They just said they suspected him of it, and it worked. You obviously believe it. I don't really care if he had illegal guns and grew pot, or not.
Fred: what you said is that your kind of guy was one who failed to report income...so does every drug dealer, meth cooker and pot grower. What I meant was that failing to report your income is nothing to hail as a good thing.
Still adore you though I disagree with you on this one.
And Fred doesn't care if people have illegal guns or grow dope. Gee no wonder Eureka is in such a predicament.
I never adored Fred, but I liked him. Not so sure lately.
9:51 wrote, "your kind of guy was one who failed to report income...".
You have to understand where Vroman was coming from, at least as I've been led to understand it:
There are a number of people in the country, not just amongst the libertarians, that believe the income tax is illegal- that amendment never properly ratified in the first place, and that it wasn't meant to apply to earned income, or some such.
Seems like Vroman was in that crowd and didn't feel he had any legal obligation to pay tax on his income.
One of the better know libertarians making the case for the income tax being illegal is Irwin Schiff. I believe he's spending essentially life in prison now for writing a book telling people they don't have to pay income taxes. I say life in prison because I think he got twelve years. He's in his 80s now so he'll likely die if he serves his full term. More on Schiff at:
http://www.paynoincometax.com/irwinschiff.htm
A more recent figurehead in the "illegal income tax" movement is Joe Bannister. He used to be, by his own definition, a gun carrying, gung- ho IRS enforcement agent.
He got tired of being told by people they weren't legally required to pay income tax so he sent a note to superiors asking for the proper codes and statutes which made the income tax legal. He'd expected a quick response, feeling himself the tax was perfectly legit.
He never got one. As he put pressure on higher ups for an answer, he was dismissed from service. He's since become a bit of a cult hero among the anti- income tax crowd.
Here's an interesting look at Joe Bannister I wasn't aware of:
http://www.quatlosers.com/joe_banister.htm
I actually think that Vroman, Schiff and Bannister are correct in that the income tax is illegal. That said, what are you going to do when someone walks up to you, sticks a gun in your face and asks for your money? Argue the legality of his actions?
Nope. Both Schiff and Vroman's actions prove the uselessness of resistance to the IRS, although Bannister was recently acquitted of some tax offense.
I disagree with you Fred about Vroman not paying taxes because he thought as a libertarian it was illegal. Vroman was corrupt!
Vroman was corrupt? I guess you'd know better than I. All I know is what I've read in the papers, coupled with tidbits from the Libertarian Party of California newsletter.
Well Fred - been following him since he first threw his hat in in Mendo. Corrupt, very much so in my book.
Ok. You're the expert.
And let's not forget! Norm Vroman was Paul Gallegos' 'mentors'. And Gallegos recently donated $500 to Vroman's re-election?! Gallegos's other 'mentor' was Halanan, the ousted SF DA. What a pair.
Agreed, that would shed a shadow on Vroman; supporting a couple of the worst D.A.'s in the state.
That said, I've never been up to speed as to why he did it. It could be he was just supporting people under fire like he was, and is, despite his death.
No No No Fred. PG said publicly that Halanan and Vroman were his mentors right from the start, after the first election. He took Tim Stoen at Vroman's recomendation, also publically acknowledged by Gallegos. Vroman was qouted saying what a great DA Stoen was ! Right , then why would you want to give him up ?
Birds of a feather.
Post a Comment
<< Home