Tuesday, October 24, 2006

Yet Another One

Maybe it just seems that way? I get the feeling police shootings in Eureka have picked up over the years. Maybe I'm just not remembering some way back when I didn't pay as much attention to the news?

Here's another Juvenile Hall alumni that meets a relatively early demise. I can think of one other I have specific knowledge of, although that "kid" was in his thirties, I believe, when he was shot and killed out in front of WinCo some time ago.

I don't know if it could really be backed up by statistics, but having a history with Juvenile Hall seems to increase one's odds of an early death. I didn't know the kid killed in this incident, but I've been amazed at how many kids I knew when I worked at Juvenile Hall that met death prematurely.

359 Comments:

At 7:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe the walls in joovie are lined with lead paint. Or maybe the food the kids get served is too high in fat. Maybe the employees improperly smoke closer than 20 feet next to the buildings. Let's get to the bottom of why these kids keep dying.

 
At 7:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you think this will skew elections results Fred? I'm betting more money on the incumbants-this is not the time for 'trainees'.

 
At 7:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The opposite. We're fed up so we're throwing everyone out of office.

 
At 8:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The incumbents have had 4-6 years to deal with an increasingly out of control police department. Throw the bums out!!

 
At 8:37 AM, Anonymous kat said...

Shit happens in cycles. We have gones years without anything like this, and now twice in under a year.

I am not going to jump on the bandwagon and say that the officers are trigger happy. I am not there on the call, making split second decisions. I don't know the entire situation. I am going to reserve judgment on this one. I wouldn't want to be that officer's family. They will be "punished" and shunned by the community when they had nothing to do with it.

I really hate how people think they can arm chair quarterback a police shooting. At least Frank is having the redding coronor's office do the autopsy.

I think the kids in juvie make a choice to go down a path in life that may or may not end in early death. I don't think it is some great conspiracy.

 
At 8:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The City of Eureka needs outside help.

 
At 8:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is supposed to be a press conference later today. Let's wait for more information please. Anyone who believes that newspaper accounts get it right has never experienced just how badly they can screw up even the simpliest stories.

 
At 9:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can all thank those purists over at Demockery Limited and Loco for refusing to support the Coalition for Police Review and their efforts to implement police review in Eureka. Over a dozen public meetings this year and these bozos didn't bother to show up to a single one of them -- even the one where the District Attorney appeared to defend his office's handling of the Cheri Moore case.

CPR's crime according to DUHC operative Michael Smith was allowing Greg Allen to contribute his energy and legal expertise.

I hope this latest death was worthy of David Cobb's need to hoarde power and David Cobb's desire to exclude anyone who happens to think for themselves.

 
At 9:07 AM, Anonymous mresquan said...

8:48,You mean like why were they chasing him in the first place?What kind of a call were the officers responding to?

 
At 9:13 AM, Anonymous mresquan said...

9:06,wonderful,using the death of a teenager as a political shot against David Cobb and Michael Smith.You're one fucked up person.

 
At 9:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
There is supposed to be a press conference later today. Let's wait for more information please. Anyone who believes that newspaper accounts get it right has never experienced just how badly they can screw up even the simpliest stories.

8:48 AM

 
At 9:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The ones who commit murder and the ones who refuse to stand up to them are the "fucked up" ones, or has Mark "Esquan" Konkler forgotten his friend Michael Smith's column in the Arcata Eye where he teared down police review just because of who was invovled in the campaign?

It is Mark "Esquan" Konkler who is also messed in the head for continuning to defend these undefendable power-mongers. How many people have to die before you and Cobb get over your Greg Allen-hating and support police review? Oh yeah, Mark is on the list of police review supporters, but then again he didn't actually try to help, did he? Another talk much, do nothing liberal, just what we need in this situation.

Letter to the Editor
4/25/2006

Four days passed since the brutal slaying of Cheri Moore but the time of mourning was brief indeed for these consistent critics of citizen oversight. Apparently no sense of urgency or humanity has entered into their calculations as they are content to tear down Greg Allen and police review, even if it means we wait years more, if ever, to actually do something real and lasting to make sure her death was not in vain. Do Michael Smith and the Arcata Eye truly feel no shame?

Xandra Manns
Eureka

Christina Allbright
Petrolia

 
At 9:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In resonse to:

" Anonymous said...
The opposite. We're fed up so we're throwing everyone out of office. and-

Anonymous said...
The incumbents have had 4-6 years to deal with an increasingly out of control police department. Throw the bums out!! "

The present city council has to deal with the budget they have in front of them-a document the challengers have not 'had time' to even read. The incumbants have appointed a public safety ad hoc committee in response to the previous unfortunate incident- a Public Safety Commission will follow.

It takes TIME.

SOLUTIONS do not happen as fast as they or we would like. But putting trainees who haven't put the time in to study the issues would be a horrible, horrible mistake!

 
At 9:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also from CPR:

The Coalition for Police Review (CPR) will meet this Thursday, October 26 at Noon at the offices of the Redwood Chapter, ACLU (917 Third Street, Suite Q) to respond to the latest tragic shooting of a juvenile at the hands of the Eureka Police Department, and explore methods of getting a police review commission (NOT a meaningless public safety committee) implemented by either the newly elected City Council or by ballot initiative.

 
At 9:40 AM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Leave it up to the Douglas faction of the Eureka greens to use an ufortunate shooting as a tool against their opponents.That'll get people to register green and want to work with you.While a community mourns over a terrible trajedy,these folks salivate at the opportunity to knock their political opponents.

 
At 9:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You folks seem to assume that the cop did something wrong. Hardly any of the information is out and most of you have already concluded that the cop did something wrong and the police department, cops in general are at fault. Eureka is a rough place, lots of crime. It's surprising it doesn't happen more often.

By the mothers admission (newspaper article) this boy has been in and out of juvenile hall, lived in three group homes, has a prior incident with a knife, and so on. The boy wasn't living with his mom for a reason. He was on probation for a reason. Three probation officers were going to visit him for a reason. As a juvenile much or most of his record will be sealed.

I think this has been three EPD shootings in the past year to 15 months. It doesn't mean there is some big problem, one person wrote "out of control police department". Eureka is the hub of the county, everyone knows that. There is out of control drug use and all the problems that go along with it. The facts aren't out yet, show a little patience.

 
At 9:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Eureka Greens thread was three days ago Mark. What does any of this have to do with them? Or do you have to shift the Greg Allen-bashing to another target to deflect attention from police review?

 
At 9:42 AM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Instaed of knocking at one another,let's keep the discussion on the issue at hand.Just try.And no DUHC isn't the issue at hand.

 
At 9:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

police review isn't an issue for cobb thats for sure. theres no money for duhc down that road. besides they might actually have to hold their nose and work with **gasp** other people who dont buy into their ideology.

why dont you set the good example for us all mr. esquan and tell us what should be done. youve been doing a bangup job of that so far this morning. does it involve supporting larry glass who doesnt support police review?

 
At 9:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is all so tragic.

 
At 9:51 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our inaction is more tragic still. A real democracy would see us protesting in front of the police department this morning.

 
At 9:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

these CRIMINAL cops need to be tested for substance abuse IMMEDIATELY before their systems can be cleansed of meth residue

 
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>Our inaction is more tragic still. A real democracy would see us protesting in front of the police department this morning.

I thought about that...
but they will just kill us too

or lock us up as "enemy combatants"

so...

who do you call when the gang wears blue?

and...

Will Gallegos investigate this EXECUTION or is he truly "soft on crime"?

 
At 9:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The incumbents HAVE had 4+ years to do something about a lot of issues that impact safety. I've not seen anything substantive come out of city hall, however.

I don't know anything about Local Solutions', Democracy Unltd's., and Greg Allen's involvement or non-involvement being important, but do believe that police review is urgently needed.

 
At 10:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My understanding is that there were city, sheriff and probation cops on scene. I've interfaced with dozens of local cops over the years and while many were assholes, none ever seemed to be under the influence.

 
At 10:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lessons learned from the recent past-cover your asses this time and test for all substances including steroids.

 
At 10:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Better be testing that kid, too. His friends, his Mom too.
Probation officers don't just walk in and start macing people. There's something more to this story.

 
At 10:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

it's interesting that the cops protect the name of the murderer, but allow the kid's name to be plastered all over the news... with the tag that he "had a knife" (oooooooooh)....

funny... I thought that the name of a minor was protected from the media if they "commit an offense".

but the cops will say it's cuz he is a "victim" that his name was released.

But then they are saying that he was committing a crime by "having a weapon".

The cops want it both ways - don't they?

Slander the kid... slander the VICTIM of their murderering ways..... even if he's a minor.

WHILE AT THE SAME TIME PROTECTING THE IDENTITY OF THE MURDERER.

Don't the citizens of Eureka have a right to know if a TRIGGER-HAPPY GUN-TOTING MURDERER ADULT lives in their neighborhood????

The cops were not defending themselves when they murdered this teen, but they sure are defending their murderous officers afterwards!

FULL INVESTIGATION! FULL DISCLOSURE!

The dirty rotten gang of EPD officers need to be investigated IMMEDIATELY befor their bodies can be cleansed of illegal substances.

The one sheriff was "off duty'.

Interesting.

Apparently they will come in on their off hours if there's a chance that they can KILL a citizen.

dirty dirty dirty

 
At 10:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

interesting also is that they are "debriefing" the neighbors and staff at the school.

wouldn't want any contradictory stories eh?

how come the news has not interviewed any witnesseses?
Or has the epd put a muzzle on the community?

the coroner says he WILL conduct a substance abuse test on the victim's body already.

but what about the epd?

he gets to "sober up" or "barb down" or "clean his jets" before being tested?

Cops ARE criminals - don't EVER forget that.

Even the ones who aren't dirty will cover for their fellow officers. Its the way it works. If cops DON'T cover for their fellow officers against citizens, then they aren't part of "the team".

If they aren't part of the team....
well...


accidents DO happen

 
At 10:54 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To answer the police officer who posted here saying that cops are a-holes, but NOT under the influence...

HA!


the cops write LETTERS to the paper openly defending their use of stimulants to keep them awake because of all the tireless work they do for our community.

ha

funny.... they just got $30,000 worth of flak vests to protect themselves "from a pen in their breast pocket which MIGHT penetrate their bodies in an accident" (hahahaha).

WAKE UP PEOPLE - those vests are BECAUSE they know that we hate them.

They are SO protected....

and yet so... so.... afraid of US.

the dirty gun-toting, vest wearing bullies who murder old women and the young are AFRAID OF US.

because we are citizens, and everything we do is suspect.

WE THE CITIZENS OF EUREKA ARE VIEWED AS ENEMIES BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

no wonder they are executing us.

and then hiding



the murderer of this youth is on PAID leave.
Probably took a patrol car home with him too.

CRIMINAL!

 
At 10:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the police dept is a refuge for violent drug users

 
At 10:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:44 AM is the one that needs to be drug tested !!! tested for meth, cocaine, LSD, pot, saturated fat! It is a well documented fact that chronic meth and cocaine use causes paranoia !

Dude you been watching too much TV, playing tooo much play station.

I'd address your comments more but it would be a waste of time. Not only are you an asshole you are ignornant.

 
At 10:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its just this kind of blather that makes a mob mentality-can't y'all just wait until the official statement has been made?

 
At 11:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:37, 10:44, 10:54, and 10:56 are obviously the same deemented individual. Makes me wonder what skeltons are in your closet.

amen 10:57

 
At 11:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kne should be posting on his own blog !

 
At 11:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What ever happened to Eureka's Public Safety Commission?

 
At 11:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ignornant?
Kne?

is that like a republican'T?

or just another mis-type?

it's funny how you cops react to civilians

(except when you kill us)

 
At 11:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

deemented?


ewe hour sew dumm yu arggghh quliffied fore da police departmint

 
At 11:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

> deemented?


ewe hour sew dumm yu arggghh quliffied fore da police departmint


-----

final test

1) can you kill a civilian while hiding behind a flak vest?
2) and then take a paid vacation?

ya can?

well, by golly you are our new police killer!

go get 'em hoss

 
At 11:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know I'm giving some of you cro-mags a headache by using logic, so I will stop now.

I'd hate to see ya go crazy and kill some Eureka civilians.

Book 'em Dummo!
er....
well...
kill 'em anyway!

Aufwiedersehen Cro-Mags!

have fun at the pig slaughter in Dinsmore

 
At 11:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:08, 11:14, 11:17 ....... the same moron. KM and associates. Enough said.

 
At 11:46 AM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Wow.

 
At 11:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The police review pushers' problem is that they pushed for police review in Arcata where it's so not needed it's laughable. HA! HA! See, I just laughed at the notion. It's hard to take the the idea seriously after that.

 
At 11:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The REAL issue is knives. We raise our children playing with toy kitchens that have knives. Is it any wonder we're reading about a teenager who got gunned down while possibly armed with a knife? We need a toy kitchen review commission to prevent future tragedies.

 
At 11:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a nationwide problem. Criminal cops infest every dept are protected by their "teammates".

Who do you call when the crooked cops are the ones causing you problems?

Eureka needs a police reveiw commision.

 
At 12:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A boy is dead, a CHILD. Not six months before, a woman off her meds was shot, AND BRUTALLY SHOT MULTIPLE TIMES UNNECESARILY! I am sorry to yell, but their is a serious problem with the police in Eureka. I used to think the SHeriffs department was the most careless, but obviously times have changed.

Their needs to be police review, Suzie Owsley needs to move on. These people believe they own the police department. A CHILD IS DEAD PEOPLE!!!!

 
At 12:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Nation wide problem","Criminal cops" ? Give us an example ?

What problems, specifically, are these "crooked cops" causing you?

You can't give an example because you are talking out your ass, such a surprise. What's the matter junior, did you get a speeding ticket from the mean ole nasty police ? Did you get arrested for slapping your girlfriend?

Give us something tangible. All this rant, nothing specific.

 
At 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shut her down Fred. The loons are on parade and it ain't pretty.

 
At 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A child is a dead person, not a dead people.

 
At 12:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How did Cheri Moore recieve a bullet to the back of her head??? How many times was she shot??? Why is the information on this case not being released sooner???

Suzie Owsley has been doing her job as public information officer for a very long time. At least 7-8 years as far as I can remember. TO LONG! Move her over to the espresso station, Eureka needs to move into the 21st century. We need a more responsive police department.

We also need a police department that doesnt resort to guns as a first resort.

 
At 12:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How did Cheri Moore recieve a bullet to the back of her head??? How many times was she shot??? Why is the information on this case not being released sooner???

Suzie Owsley has been doing her job as public information officer for a very long time. At least 7-8 years as far as I can remember. TO LONG! Move her over to the espresso station, Eureka needs to move into the 21st century. We need a more responsive police department.

We also need a police department that doesnt resort to guns as a first resort.

 
At 12:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Relax with the cop hate crap.

It is tragic that a 16 year old died. It is also tragic that he was living in foster homes instead of with his family. It is also tragic that this young man's life was spent in and out of juvenile hall. Several things must have occurred to make this 16 year old the person that he was. Before you go off on the cops without a complete (or even semi complete) set of facts think that juveniles are capable of and do commit serious crime like assault and murder. it's in the news weekly.

It's never good to speak ill of the dead but just read what his mom said! A history with knives, in and out of juvenile hall, lived in foster care homes even though his mom and family lived in town. You're so quik to blame the cops, call them crooked, murderers, and so on. What about the kid? Some kids are physically adults at 16. 10 to 1 this "kid" has violence and meth use in his past. Probably has meth in his system.

Re-read the Times Standard, three probation officers were looking for him ! There was a reason ! There was a reason he was on probation. Would it be different if the guy was 20 years old and on parole and three parole officers were looking for him? The cop hating crowd is all whacked out and they haven't even heard what the probation officers had to say.

About a year ago an EPD officer shot and killed a guy just up from the police department. That guy came at the officer with a knife and the officer shot him with a rifle. Where was the outrage then ? Oh yes that guy was a Mexican, and not local! He was also an adult.

Bottom line cops have every right to defend themselves, that's why they carry guns.

 
At 12:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm glad the jury isn't picked from this pool. Where is the objectivity? Where is waiting for all the evidence to come in?

Armchair quarterbacks are wannabe, or hasbeens but they aren't calling the shots-so quit with trying to sound ALL KNOWING and ALL IMPORTANT. This stinks Fred-enough?

 
At 12:48 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

This, well, this is quite the thread.

 
At 12:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:40, what about the individuals right to defend themselves? There's a reason swine like the EPD go after teens and the mentally ill. Because if they went after a meth pusher they'd face a REAL fire fight! and the EPD is to chicken shit for a REAL fire fight.

 
At 12:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If ya'll want to assign blame in an information vacuum, there are only two people on this planet who unquestionably deserve some of that blame: the young man's mother and father. Too many people who should never be parents are churning out babies.

 
At 12:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My complaints are not that the police do not have a right to defend themselves, we all do. Certainly, I hope, not all EPD are ill trained,in fact many probably many are model cops. This CHILD had brought a knife to school at age 10. what, SIX years ago? And just because the CHILD was in group homes and on probation does not excuse his death, does not make him a menace to society. Im not here to argue the probation side BECAUSE PROBATION DID NOT KILL THIS CHILD. EPD did that.

My issue is tht within 6 months we have the deaths of two citizens, one old one young, both TROUBLED. they are the weakest among us, yet they are now dead. Moore did not have to die, that is VERY CLEAR. We dont know the specifics of this case, BUT IT IS TROUBLING AT BEST. The lack of free flow of information is disturbing. Our DA's ineptness is disturbing. Suzie owsley (Who is POLITICALLY involved in the community) has held the same job for way to long, a job that in other jurisdictions is a stepping stone and its not uncommon to have a new person every 2-3 years.

So if youre going to assume the worst in this CHILD, I sure as sh!t will assume the worst of these police, after all their is a CLEAR track record.

 
At 1:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

dirty cop dirty cop, whattya gonna do whattya gonna do, whattya gonna do when the citizens come for you.

sung to theme of COPS.

 
At 1:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

are you suggesting we lynchmob crooked cops? Is that the only way justice can be served?

 
At 1:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

One point worth revisiting is the fact that these men can't seem to shoot straight.
Either they need remedial firearm training, or they believe shoot-to-kill, regardless of age and level of threat, is eaasier than disabling and handling a "suspect". Let's not forget, people, that he was a human being.

While I agree that lots of people are lousy parents, that doesn't justify the excessive uses of force by the men and women we are SUPPOSED to be able to trust. Those in uniform, entrusted with our safety.

 
At 1:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jeez - the lunatics have taken over the asylum Fred......

Some of these creeps are just plain scary...

If this young man had stabbed and killed the cop he would have been tried as an adult.

you cop haters need to self medicate before your heads blow up.

 
At 1:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:52 don't you mean...self medicate before the lawless EPD gang puts a bullet hole in our heads.

EPD is nothing but a bunch of gutless thugs too scared to join the war effort in Iraq.

Poh wittle EPD dusn't wike the bad ole tewowists who fight back. boo hoo hoo.

 
At 1:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Were all cop haters, sure sure.... whatever.

Its to bad the City of Eureka is going to go bankrupt paying for the Moore case, and possibly this one. But of course, thats the cop haters fault, isnt it???

 
At 2:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You said it.

 
At 2:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No 1:58, I mean self medicate before your heads explode from the vitriolic hate you spew. Man, you sound so bizarre...could you be R.Trent or Ken....come on tell us..... you can do it dickie or kenny!

 
At 2:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They were the weakest among us? Umm, no. I'm not packing a knife or a flare gun and stirring a confrontation with peace officers. I do believe I am weaker than those you speak of.

 
At 2:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If it comes down to a choice between being confronted by a cop with his gun drawn and a "troubled" person holding a knife or a flare gun, I'll choose the cop every time. Of course the circumstances are much greyer and muddier than that, but the lynch-the-cops crowd would have you believe, as evidenced by the comments on this page, that cops are evil. These folks are simply loony.

 
At 2:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:13, you are lost buddy. I assume youre stable enough to own and operate a computer.... uh, youre doing better than these two were speaking of. But maybe youre right, you do need the citys special attention...

 
At 2:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There will only be more and more crime in Eureka and other parts of the county in the future.

We have virtually no tax base anymore. The tax base is HSU and county government. A good percentage of the residents here are on some form of government relief. Most blue collar jobs are gone. You have a terrible drug problem in this county (despite what the TS says), and a good many of these drug addicts are using meth. Many of the meth users (and drug addicts generally) are parents. Their children are feral or are intercepted by government agencies. Government agencies are not a replacement for good, solid parents. People are being drawn to this county for marijuana and radical politics. Those are not stabilizing forces in a community. The populous elects a defense attorney as the DA who cannot put a string of words into a sentence that is comprehendable. The defense attorney DA hires more defense attorneys. The DA's office gets a reputation for being leniant on criminals. If these criminals are not handles punitively for violent crimes, they are out on the streets. Police officers are sent out to deal with the meth addicts, their children, and the violent criminals who have been returned to the streets. The police are then vilified for trying to carry out their role of protecting public safety. There is an exodus from the DA's office. There is an exodus from local police agencies.

The problems will only get worse.

 
At 2:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks again Rose.

"People are being drawn to this county for marijuana and radical politics."

Not quite.

 
At 2:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hopefully there will be an exodus from City Hall.

 
At 2:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, hello! The police are not coming under criticism out of the blue!!! There is a reason! The City is liable for Moore. This child shooting is certainly dubious. I wont defend Gallegos, b/c I think he is personally a pretty bad lawyer. The Eureka police has great officers, the problem is the really good ones are all over 40 years old!!!
The other officers need serious training because frankly, 95% of the people the police are going to deal with are mentally disturbed. Drug addiction is usually a side effect of mental illness. And Eureka is full of these cases. The police need better training immediatly or the city may not even have the funds to mow the park.

 
At 2:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The other officers need serious training"

Will this be handled by the Public Safety commission?

 
At 2:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think its more clear now than ever their needs to be some sort of oversight more directly involved than the Grand Jury. Its the city's responsibility, training should be funded by eureka, and the oversight committee should be staffed by Eurekans. The focus should be training, and education on mental illness. And for love of god, get these officers some Tasers!

 
At 2:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The City is liable for Moore."

How do you know that?

How can you state that the shooting yesterday is "dubious" when we hardly know anything.

I would venture to guess that you've made up your mind without knowing anything about police tactics or the law. Have you been to a police academy or law school?

You are exactly the kind of person who should not sit in a jury box.

 
At 2:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have to ask, why does this county have more than their share of people with mental illness?

 
At 2:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The city is liable for Moore b/c they are making an offer to the family for monetary compensation. Wait about 2-3 weeks and we may find out the city has settled. The court hates dealing w/ these cases b/c they take months, so the city has to make an offer.(The size of the offer will show us how much the city thinks its in trouble) If you think that the police were justified in any way to do what they did to that woman, you are probably a cop.

 
At 3:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You have to ask, why does this county have more than their share of people with mental illness?"


And the facts to support your claim?


Perhaps the better question is why does this county have more than their share of cops that do not know how to handle situations with mentally ill residents?

 
At 3:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you think that the police were justified in any way to do what they did to that woman, you are probably a member of the Public Safety commission.

 
At 3:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its pretty clear that there were other options other than deadly force with Moore. So the family probably has a very good case against the city. If the same is true in this child murder (and if he was unarmed as his mother says - thats exactly what it is, child murder) the city may have to pay well into the 7 figure mark for each incident.

 
At 3:16 PM, Blogger Fred said...

3:01 writes, ""You have to ask, why does this county have more than their share of people with mental illness?"

Well, this is a "blue county", so most likely, yes. :))))

2:36 writes, "The police need better training immediatly".

Training is no substitute for experience.

 
At 3:17 PM, Blogger Fred said...

I guess I should have replied above: "Because it's a "blue county"?

 
At 3:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred,

When the city has paid out 10 times the cost of training on liability to families with dead relatives will you think diffrently? 20?

 
At 3:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Experience at the cost of dead old ladies and children cut down in the prime of their youth. Wonderful idea. Seems to be working real well Fred.

 
At 3:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred,

You're right-training is not a substitute for experience, and because of the progressive agenda, we have lost experienced people from the DA's office and the police agencies and that will continue to our detriment.

Likewise, we cannot seem to attract people to fill these positions. The DA has had ads out for deputy DA's since February and is still advertising. EPD has been understaffed for that long also.

When a person applying for jobs in law enforcement who takes it seriously has a choice between this community and a place not ruled by "progressives" it is obvious what choice is made.

 
At 3:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah Rose... just gotta bring up the DA.

 
At 3:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

God forbid the progressives would want a safer more responsible community. Jeez... if we only all carried guns.

 
At 3:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Hey, Ive got an idea! Lets put a badge on the rookie, give him a gun and then send him into a situation hes probably never experienced before. Then, we'll send him to go patrol the children! Theirs no substitute for experience darnit! Why do we even need Police Academy's?? What is training for?? Heck my pig Suey knows how to restrain herself! SUEY!"

 
At 3:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

3:23 Many people applying for jobs in law enforcement would prefer to live in places like Fresno? A red county, true, but also knee deep in meth, etc. I'll take annoying but harmless hippies any day.

Progress is not considered a four-letter word outside Humboldt County, for the most part.

Finally, since the conservatives had had the positions of power in most of HumCo (certainly in Eureka) for decades here, the truly culpable are the conservatives in power.

 
At 3:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

3:04 - the mother wasn't at the house or at the scene. Heck she wasn't even in the young man's life as he had been in foster care and juvenile hall since what 5 yrs old. All reports have him with a knife. I feel so much for the pain of his family and friends right now but you seem rather on the cop hater side of this.

Me...I will reserve my "moderate" judgment until I hear the facts.

 
At 3:41 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

If ya'll want to assign blame in an information vacuum, there are only two people on this planet who unquestionably deserve some of that blame: the young man's mother and father. Too many people who should never be parents are churning out babies.

You don't have the facts to support that statement either.

 
At 3:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Suey! Show them how you only urinate in one corner of your pen! See! That is restraint! She learnt that all on her own by golly. She didnt need no academy! She didnt need special training. look at how clean Suey is! Suey baby, come give me some lovin!"

 
At 3:46 PM, Blogger Rose said...

Rose is not 2:26 or 3:29. I've been out all day and came back to see all this HATE. Wow. It is worse than I thought.

And, beyond what I have already said, I am waiting to hear what happened.

I am sickened by the lynch mob mentality.

And I wish people who really CARE about kids with problems like this one would put their energy into helping make things better for the Multitudes of others who are alive and headed in the same direction this one appeared to be going.

I also wonder where all this outrage was over the kids who shot the homeless guy to death for fun, after shooting cows for fun.

Didn't hear a peep.

 
At 3:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If it were the EPD shooting homeless people and cows im sure you would...

 
At 3:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"God forbid the progressives would want a safer more responsible community."

They may, but they are not going about it in a way that will bring that result.

Their ideology has them coddling the criminals.

 
At 3:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Those kids weren't hired to protect us.

 
At 3:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very sensible comments, Rose.

Tragic all around, and probably avoidable. Let's try to make something positive come out of this horrible situation.

 
At 3:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I am sickened by the lynch mob mentality"

Are you talking about your blog Rose?

 
At 3:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If this child was unarmed, it is murder plain and simple. If this child only had a knife, this is an extreme case of unnecesary force. The only way a childs death would be justified is if he was wielding a handgun! Surely all those hippie trashing conservatives can accept this???

 
At 3:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah, Richard Salzman. Alas, I get the opportunity to ask you why you aren't getting the final approval on Paul's hires anymore? Certainly, if you had, he wouldn't have been allowed another chance to show the public his poor judgement hiring Allan Dollison.

It looks like only inadequate, unethical attorneys are the only ones who will go to work there now.

What will you do with the house of cards crumbling since all of the slaves have left the quarry? You might have to call upon Jeff Schwartz to actually work, instead of posting on his pathetic blog for city council.

 
At 4:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Deflection. Must be a Rose "mobster."

 
At 4:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't know or care who 3;59 and 4;01 are, but...
While it's true that our DA is an incompetent boob, the EPD isn't much better.

The fact that they killed him, instead of incapacitating him is quite upsetting. Are they unable to shoot for injury instead of death, or unwilling?

 
At 4:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

3:59 #2:

Are you retarded? what does this have to do with excessive force? In fact really, what does Richard Salzman have to do with anything? Better yet, dont answer this and stick to the subject of a DEAD CHILD.

 
At 4:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gallegos is developing an impressive list of incompetent attorneys, and he is their hapless leader!

His ad should read: have you been suspended by the state bar, been associated with a cult who committed mass suicide or had a website devoted to self-congratulation on freeing murderers, drug dealers and rapists? If you are ethically malleable and believe that criminals are victims of society who should simply be counseled in their problems instead of punished for their misdeeds, please apply. No need to supply references or any other background information.

 
At 4:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:05-it has everything to do with this situation. When you have a DA's office that is perpetually understaffed and is rejecting and dismissing cases, there will be a consequence in the community.

Why do you think every time you pick up the paper you see robberies, assaults, and rapes in a town of 24,000? We have a crime problem that rivals urban areas.

You will see more and more confrontations with police because of a serious crime problem in this area. It's not Mayberry anymore.

 
At 4:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

again, gallegos has nothing to do with this. Yes he is incompetent. But at least he hasnt unnecesarily killed anyone on the last six months.

Fred seems to think experience is all an officer needs. I think Fred is dumber than a brick. He's just happy another half Latino is dead, and he doesnt have to pay for social services for a mentally ill woman. Good job Fred, run for president why dont you! youre slogan "WHO NEEDS TRAINING!". You are a regular genius sir!

 
At 4:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:10

The sky is falling the sky is falling!

If progressives had gotten their way in the early 20th century, the office of DA wouldnt even be an elected position!!! We need professional civil service employees runnig such an office, not politicians.

That being said you have yet to produce verifiable facts gallegos as a manager (We know hes a horrible attorney) is any worse than Farmer, keeping in mind we live in a diffrent budget reality.

 
At 4:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are wrong---

why did the paper recently report on a bank robber who was already on probation for bank robbery?

why do we have two rapist running around SoHum on probation?

why did a man charged with 9 felonies who had multiple felonies in multiple states get probation?

why did a gang member charged with first degree murder get manslaughter?

There are consequences when violent, dangerous people are roaming our community on probation because the DA is too incompetent and lazy to do his job properly.

 
At 4:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You contradicted yourself:

"DA's office that is perpetually understaffed and is rejecting and dismissing cases, there will be a consequence in the community"

which doesn't compute with your other statement:

"more and more confrontations with police because of a serious crime problem in this area"

The problems we face as a community with a high crime rate per capita are not going away with plea bargains and dismissals at the District Attorney level.

-Mary

 
At 4:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yawn, weve heard this all before.

The statistics just dont hold up the notion Gallegos is some sort of criminal sypathizer. This argument has run its course, especially since the mans been through two elections and a recall. Actually, three elections and a recall.

 
At 4:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

None of this changes the fact the police gunned down a boy next to a school full of children in broad daylight!

 
At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Believe what you want, but your choices at the election box are having real consequences and will continue to.

Bush was also elected twice, but that does not protect us from the consequences of his leadership either.

 
At 4:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

District Attorney's judgement questioned


Dear Editor,


Mr. Paul Gallegos attended the Jan. 20, 2004, Trinidad Chamber of Commerce dinner meeting as the guest speaker. In his comments Mr. Gallegos had outlined his vision of law enforcement, which placed emphasis on integration with social services in the rehabilitation rather than routine criminal prosecutions and reflexive incarceration of those convicted. During the course of the question and answer session following his informative presentation, and exchange of revelatory importance took place.


Mr. Dick Bruce, a chamber member, asked a question to the effect; "Is it appropriate for the District Attorney to perform social service functions when we already have schools, other social service agencies and the Sheriff?" Mr. Gallegoos, in his response, decided to use an example to explicate his progressive approach to duties as District Attorney. He referenced a pending case in sufficient detail for us to understand the defendant's identity, After defining for us a psychological condition called "multiple personality disorder," he paused to make these admonitions:


He presumed that none of us in the audience was in the "jury pool" of potential jurors in the case.


He cautioned us that we should not talk widely about this matter, hoping we would keep this example amongst ourselves.


He advised us that any of us called as jurors in this case would have to recuse ourselves form jury duty.


Resuming his analysis, Mr. Gallegos explained that this defendant had three different personalities. The first was that of a severely abused toddler, the second (I'm a little hazy on this one) of a neglected child through adolescence, and the third of a properly functioning adult. Mr. Gallegos, in all seriousness, rhetorically asked us to advise him which one of the personalities he should prosecute?


This example he offered to an informal gathering of about 45 citizens to illustrate the broader understanding of social issues he brings to the office of District Attorney. He recognized from the onset that speaking of such things was impacting the jury pool. Continuing with his psychoanalysis of the defendant after such recognition is not poor judgement, it is a lack of a fundamental capacity to make judgements requisite of a District Attorney.


Though I supported Terry Farmer in the last election, I did not support the recall petition of Mr. Gallegos. Mr. Gallegos made it clear in his campaign that he was a reformer of traditional "tough on crime" law enforcement. He won the election and I thought Humboldt County should suffer or benefit from the consequences of giving his approach a try. However, his Jan. 20 performance has nothing to do with a more enlightened approach to law enforcement. It demonstrates an appalling deep seated lack of judgement. Had I experienced this earlier, I would have supported the Recall petition.


Sincerely,
Mickey Fleschner
Trinidad

 
At 4:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are correct about Bush.

Somehow, I dont think Gallegos has really anything to do with a child murder. Or the murder of a mentally disturbed woman. Only the EPD, and the EPD alone are responsible. These officers need training, because THEY OBVIOUSLY LACK IT. And the city better expedite the training or the city council may have to cut its own stipends here pretty soon.

 
At 4:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:27, I disagree. They don't obviously need it. So far, the Moore shooting has been justified.

So far, the investigation has not occurred with the juvenile delinquient. I will wait to see what the multiagency team finds. Unfortunately, there are juveniles that are shot or killed throughout this nation because they are armed and pose a risk to officers. It is deeply saddening to read, but we read it on a daily basis. Some shoot principals, teachers, other students, their parents etc.

I will reserve judgment till I get the facts....you are just a cop hater who will rush to judgment because it is convenient.

sigh!

 
At 4:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where is the outrage for the woman raped in Whitethorn, the dogs in Mad River, the horse Lucky, the homeless man murdered by two kids, the young murder victim who's case remains unsolved, the victim in young Bowman's case, the officers hit by the drunk driver in Trinidad, the LAPD officer from here who was tragically killed, or the other nameless, faceless victims of crime?

 
At 4:45 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Paul Gallegos does need to answer questions here,absolutely.He stood by and did nothing when Kat Zimmerman,and another HSU journalism student were brutaly handled by the police during a critical mass,even going so far as to charge her with 5 felony counts while never exerting any pressure on the officers involved despite complaints and requests from many citizens,most who probably voted for him,including myself.Mr.Gallegos himself has stated that doesn't support police review,and that things are fine the way they are.He then set up a phony inquest into the killing of Cherie Moore,without having any staff further investigate social problems which have distanced the community from its police force.Paul's judgement in these matters deserves to be questioned.

 
At 4:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:45

ok, those are very good questions to ask

 
At 5:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:45-The DA did not set up the inquest. The coroner did-It was a Coroner's Inquest.

Gallegos still has not entered a response on Chri Moore-his last excuse was that he was too busy to get to it.

 
At 5:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I heard there will be rioting at the protest in eureka tommorrow. Better bring your gasmasks and cellphones with yer lawyers on speed dial.

 
At 5:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is it when a cop shoots a citizen the cops claim "suicide by cop"? Yet when a citizen shoots an out of control cop its "murder"?

Methinks they should change the terms to "murder by state sponsored goon" and "suicide by citizen".

 
At 5:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

According to the Chief the officer was 5-7 feet away when the kid pulled the knife and he shot him. The officer was wearing a bullet proof vest.

 
At 5:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm sure the protestors will be on their best behavior and it will be a peaceful event where voices are heard and no one is physically harmed...at least until the EPD shows up.

 
At 5:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The cop could've tasered the kid, talked him down, any number of things.

The cop probably thought "I'm late for my donut break, I need to finish this quick".

 
At 5:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 2:26 said:You have a terrible drug problem in this county (despite what the TS says), and a good many of these drug addicts are using meth. Many of the meth users (and drug addicts generally) are parents. Their children are feral or are intercepted by government agencies."
This is what happens when you screw a Eureka police officer on a drug deal. Dealers and prostitutes who sell and cater to officers take notice. Wouldn't be suprised to find out that this kid was about to bust open a story.

 
At 5:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, reading this has been very interesting.

I would suggest, or hope, that people stand down for a day or two until all the facts are out. If the "cop haters" are right there will be information to bolster their point of view. If they are not, as I suspect is the case, there will more than enough information out for a reasonable person to come up with a informed inteligent opinion. Granted there are those that have posted on this blog that won't be able to do that as they are neither intelligent or reasonable.

In defense of the EPD, they had no control over the location (near a school). In the end I am sure that you will find that this young man was not "sweet 16". He may have been failed by his parents and /or the social services but he is old enough to be accountable for his actions. You will find that the officer acted reasonably, professionally, and within the law. Just because some of you lamo's out there don't like cops it doesn't mean that everything they do is wrong.

And finally all of you anti cop/anti EPD. Why not join or volunteer for EPD? Change from within ? How about it? Oh that's right your drug use, domestic violence, criminal history, and mental instblity would disqualify you.

And to Ken, quite giving Rose all the credit!

 
At 5:56 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

They could have shot him in the foot and disabled him as he was running from the house.

 
At 6:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:51, we of humboldt county stood down and waited for a thourough investigation of the cheri moore case, we are STILL waiting! Thes EPD thugs need to be reminded who pays their wages!

 
At 6:04 PM, Blogger Fred said...

That's out there, Esquan. This BS about police being able to pinpoint their shooting is waay beyond reasonable thinking, and has nothing to do with the real world.

 
At 6:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Besides, in training they are taught to aim for the upper torso and head.

Oops! You civilians aren't supposed to know that.

 
At 6:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, again Ill ask:

How did Cheri Moore end up with a bullet hole in the Back of her head?

 
At 6:12 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Well according to Chief during his press conference the kid basically backed them out of the doorway while having a knife in his hand.It doesn't sound like there was a great distance between him and the officers before he made his dash out of the door and towards the school.If they were close enough to pepper spray him,I'd think that be close enough to take a non deadly shot at him.That being unless they truly are untrained and unable to fire accurately.

 
At 6:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rose is right in a wierd way: Gallegos failed us on this issue. He sided with Dikeman against police review at his first debate and he made no change in his position following the Moore slaying.

I hope all the lefties who apologized for Paul in the past - and I include me and my friends in that - don't give him another inch on this issue. If Gallegos won't back citizen review then he should be ready to step down at the end of his term.

 
At 6:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How much more till we can get the F.B.I. to start an investigation of Gallegos and EPD?

 
At 6:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's not like we don't have any other progressive lawyers around here to choose from. And no I don't mean Schectman, Schwartz, Denson or Kirk.

 
At 6:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Try not to be too hard on some of these posters, just because they are spewing venom against the EPD.

This may be the first time their parents let them stay up late to use the computer. We can't expect little kids who come here pretending to be adults to think and act responsibly. Cut the kids a little slack!

 
At 6:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

6:33, why are you and others so willfully blind to the fact that police officers can be just as corrupt and vile as the people they put behind bars?

The badge is just a badge, any idiot can wear one. Sadly there are far too many idiots working for the EPD!

 
At 6:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And the DA. And the fake left. Plenty of blame to go around for the failure to act.

At least LaVallee came out and reinforced the need for police review. He's been in support ever since Cheri Moore.

 
At 7:12 PM, Blogger hucktunes said...

It is a terrible tragedy. The probation officers were why out of line macing everybody in the room. Who came up with that bonehead idea? And why didn't one of them have the sense to say hey wait a minute, we can't do that? I can only imagine that Humboldt County will be in for a big lawsuit for violating people's civil rights. And to shoot a kid for running away from his probation officer. There was clearly no public safety issue. Was the officer really affraid of the kid? If so, he shouldn't be a cop. The word cop means to capture, it doesn't mean to kill. My heart goes out to Marjorie Burgess and her family, and all the friends of young Christopher.

 
At 7:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ONE ANONYMOUS POSTER WROTE THIS:
"If this child was unarmed, it is murder plain and simple. If this child only had a knife, this is an extreme case of unnecesary force. The only way a childs death would be justified is if he was wielding a handgun! Surely all those hippie trashing conservatives can accept this??? 3:59 PM"

MY RESPONSE: The person who wrote this knows NOTHING about armed conflict, and so ASSUMES that a knife is not a deadly weapon. That is either the result of IGNORANCE or STUPIDITY.

Please, people, before you condemn the police or the teenager, remember this: When you speak without knowledge, almost everyone knows it. Your ignorance is revealed in the ridiculous things you say.

I suggest you punch a pillow for a while to get your anger out. When you have calmed down, do some basic research on the subject at hand. Then offer your thoughts and feelings to your fellow citizens.

I, too, am writing anonymously. I am not a police officer. I have many questions about the Cheri Lyn Moore shooting that have gone unanswered. I am not part of any online blog-based faction, so far, at least. I am very concerned that we Eurekans may never learn why Ms. Moore was shot in the back of the head. I have other questions that were not even asked, much less answered in the "Coroner's Inquest."

Even so, I want evidence, not assumptions or assurances of guilt or of innocence. To get the Truth about both of these situations may take a lot of doing. We will need to keep our heads if we plan to be successful in getting the Truth.

 
At 7:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

5:14 Please post when and where 'the protest' is supposed to be?

 
At 7:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Moore was shot it the back of the head because of physics. The cops were moving, they both shot at basically the same time. The force or energy of the first shot, or two, spun her around and the last round hit he in the back of the head as she was going down. A bit graphic but that's what happens. Even though there were nine shots, they all were fired in approximately 2 seconds. She was going down, the threat had been terminated before the cops brain could stop his last shot(s). It is not uncommon in these types of shootings, momentum. It was over almost as soon as it started.

I'm sure there was nothing sinister to it, but when you hear of the shot to the back of the head it sounds even worse than what it was. Some don't like or distrust cops and want to believe the worst because it fits their views or agenda.

As for the truth about yesterdays shooting, wait until tomorrow if it isn't out today. The investigation team of EPD, DA, maybe Sheriffs Office, and state will have lots of interviews to do, comparisons to make, photos/video to take, and taking notes or writing reports. It's a process I'm sure is the same in all kinds of cities across the country.

for what it's worth

 
At 7:52 PM, Blogger Pogo said...

We don't need no steeenking investigation! Igor, get the rope!

 
At 7:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its hard to sit at home and wait for information to come trickling out little bits at a time.

In this age of 24 hour news and instant gratification we all want the results, the answers and fast. But acurate results take time and we have to exercise patience. Its ok to demonstrate with signs and walking around, but don't let the anger and frustration well up and take you over-keep people around you calm and peaceful so that no one else gets hurt.

I don't want to read your names in the papers too. Its really hard for all of us, don't make it worse.

 
At 7:57 PM, Blogger Hank Sims said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 7:59 PM, Blogger Hank Sims said...

7:41 -- You sound like you know what you're talking about, and I don't have any reason to doubt what you're saying. But the officers who testified at the inquest said that Moore faced them the entire time, and that she fell either backwards or to the side. I don't understand that.

If she had spun around and then was shot in the back of the head, wouldn't she have fallen face first, away from the officers? That's what would make intuitive sense.

 
At 8:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is going to be a special city council session Thursday evening for residents to vent. I heard Mayor LaVallee announce it on KMUD news this evening.

 
At 8:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The bottom line is, 9 shots. One of those to the back of the head. Does that make sense? I mean she was not a suicide bomber! While we dont know enough about the death of this child, its no wonder EPD is being questioned like this. The Moore shooting did not have to happen!

Also, its a bit longer than 2 seconds to fire off 9 rounds between two people. do the math. A little longer than 2 seconds.

 
At 8:14 PM, Blogger Hank Sims said...

No, it wouldn't take longer than two seconds. They were both automatic weapons.

 
At 8:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait a minute, so they knew the child had a knife well before the shooting and even the chase? They were seperated by 7 feet, EPD knowing the whole time he had a knife. So, thus use of deadly force is authorized? Major red flags here guys. Im sure their is alot more to this story. I hope the reporters actually demand some answers.

 
At 8:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok. ill buy that it took two seconds... But again, 9 shots? With one to the back of the head... I saw the drawings on TS.com, this woman was shot to hell. Were flash-bangs used? does anybody know? This makes no sense. Thats why I think its totally appropriate to be skeptical of EPD. The burden of proof is on them.

 
At 8:30 PM, Blogger Tim Hooven said...

Some of the automatic weapons have 'burst' mode. You pull the trigger the once and 3 rounds fire.

 
At 8:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

8:15 Believe half of what you hear and NONE of what you read-if you think the newspapers only print the truth and nothing but the truth, I hope you are never selected to participate on a jury!

 
At 8:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please bring in the State AG on this. Somebody, anybody not local. This town is simply to small and to divided for something like this to not be swayed one way or another.

 
At 8:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would also like to know where the vigil will be held at. EPD, City Hall, the school?? This cannot be tolerated. The family needs to know the people want the truth, and wont accept Moore inquest version 2.

 
At 8:57 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Just talked to Chris Kerrigan.Special city council meeting Monday at 4pm.He told me to pass the info on.

 
At 9:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is there still a meeting Thursday-TOO?

 
At 9:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's real smart of La Vallee to call a council meeting when no facts are out and the community is inflamed. Shall we reserve the muni?

 
At 9:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ah, Mister Chris "cops are thugs" Kerrigan. There's no political agenda there.

 
At 9:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am really glad theyre holding a council meeting, but I intend to give the council hell for this. Theyve had 4-6 months since Cheri Moore, what have they done to better train EPD? I want a dollar amount at the very least. Obviously EPD aint gonna move on its own. It needs to be kicked, and kicked hard. This is not a partisan issue. There had better be no political BS period although with this council you would think we lived in London or something.

 
At 9:23 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

He's not the only councilmember who called for it.

 
At 9:56 PM, Blogger samoasoftball said...

90% of the posters on this thread have been anonymous. I see alot of venting. That is good. This is a terrible happening and people need an outlet. It would be more productive if people said their true feelings publically instead of spewing hatred nameless. We all do not like what has happened but we need open communication. The next few weeks will be important in our community. I hope this does not end up a last ditch political issue. That would be sad.

 
At 10:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some observations: let’s wait until all the facts are in and then come to an informed consensus.

Christopher Burgess was a minor, not a child. At age 16, most minors can be tried as an adult in criminal cases.

What was the story with Margorie Burgess (mom)?
Where was dad (does dad have a name)?
Do the parents have any criminal past? Drugs and/or alcohol abuse?

Why didn’t Christopher Burgess live with his mother?

Did Christopher Burgess have a criminal past?
Any previous arrests? Violence? Drugs?
Will we ever know the truth, especially if his past record is sealed as a minor?

Was Christopher Burgess on any drugs and/or alcohol at the time of his death? Toxicology test will tell.

What kind of warrant was the Humboldt County Probation Officers serving at Christopher Burgess friend’s house in the first place?

Why did Christopher Burgess run from the Humboldt County Probation Officers?

Why did Christopher Burgess threaten the police with a knife?

How did the “system” fail Christopher Burgess?
And who was this system?

Time tells all truths.

 
At 10:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Protest Noon Wednesday at Courthouse

Meeting Noon Thursday at 917 Third St.

 
At 10:16 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Richard,I don't know if you walked and knocked for Virginia today,I walked and knocked for Nan for a little while,and it was pretty crappy.I came across some down folks,really confused about what's going on and a lot of anger and dismay towards the city in general and the police department.I cut my walking short after about 2 blocks:Not the day to do it.

 
At 10:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So a 10" knife? Is that the blade or the whole knife?

 
At 10:58 PM, Blogger samoasoftball said...

10:16pm Yes. I was out walking for Virginia today on Union. Actually no one brought up the subject. I then phone banked nearly 100 voters myself tonight and had not one person bring up the issue. We had others phonebanking and I over heard a few discussing this issue, I just never had one. Neither Greens, Democrats or Republicans. It will be more of an issue the next few days when people hear more. You were just way quick to the news. Others do not even know what happened and are just soaking the news. It will be more of an issue in the days to come. This was my neighborhood growing up a few blocks away on Russ St. by the way.

 
At 11:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't know. But even if it is 10" overall that means the blade is still 5 inches long. If it's a 10" blade then it's just plain scary.

10:11 PM makes some very good, reasonable points.

 
At 11:19 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

I was walking around 6pm,and one home I went to had the news on.

 
At 11:31 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good thing you weren't driving.

 
At 11:41 PM, Anonymous mresquan said...

Well I watched the first part of the broadcast then bailed out around 15 after,then drove to G st.just north of Harris,hit the first house at about 25 after.So I did do a little bit of driving.

 
At 11:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The photo from the new conference showed a 10" blade.

 
At 12:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now that we've heard the first account, I have no problem with how the situation was handled. In the same situation, I'd have done the same thing. Sometimes people do stupid things and wiser people have to protect themselves.

 
At 2:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wise people use tazers, pepper spray, call for back up before chasing a suspect.

This just reeks of a crooked cop offing a snitch.

 
At 6:27 AM, Blogger Fred said...

"call for back up before chasing a suspect.".

I think it's fairly obvious they did. Weren't there already three probation officers there? Sounds to me like they knew this was a problem child they were going to be dealing with.

Then, three probation officers aren't enough and they have to call for more help? Looks like a pretty intense situation from the beginning.

 
At 7:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon 2:37 - "This just reeks of a crooked cop offing a snitch."

Oh, now it is a crime of opportunity, the cop killing this kid. The fact is this "kid" was six foot and 180 pounds armed with a bowie style knife with a 10" blade had nothing to do with it. Interesting that his family only show pictures from when he was a real little kid, not the monster he grew into.

 
At 8:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Knife v.Gun.
Within 21 feet, a knife is more dangerous than a holstered handgun. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that an active adult can close that distance before an alert trained officer can draw and use a gun. And the knife won't jam or misfire, and needn't be reloaded.
If the officer has a weapon at the ready, and is confronted with a knife at close range, it is a judgment call. Life or death, his or mine, blink twice and its over, one way or the other.
Officers are not trained to injure, a gun is a deadly weapon, (as is a knife), and is used, if at all, to kill. Anyone think a knife wielder is planning on paring the officer's toenails?

 
At 8:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And while the officer is holstering his gun to get out the non lethal taser he can become a jackolantern.

It would be interesting to see the IP of poster at 2:37 AM Fred.

 
At 8:28 AM, Blogger Fred said...

I suppose it would, but how would you be able to tell what the IP was?

 
At 8:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ask Rose?

 
At 9:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who wouldn't shoot someone coming at them with a knife? I sure as hell would, even if it was a 16 year old.

 
At 9:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A 10" knife weilded by a 6 foot 180 pound aggitated and aggresive teenager !

 
At 9:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank God for Eureka PD.

 
At 9:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

2:37 AM wow, don't know if I should laugh at this or be really worried.

What's up with 2:37AM ? Staying up late smoking meth and watching Miami Vice re-runs? This guy is way out. I guess I should laugh cause it is comical.

 
At 9:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Visions of grandeur-EPD should hire 2:37 to fill ALL the vacancies!

 
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OR Larry Glass!

 
At 10:03 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am so tired of the same old anti-cop bloggers...Richard and Ken...get a life and quit trying to be lots of different posters..you really are caustic and hateful...

this is what I have gotten out of this...

there was a juvenile delinquent, in trouble with the law and in an out of foster care since 5 yrs old. Parents were so bad that he was taken away from them and had to go to 3 different foster homes (way to go mom!) He was on juvenile probation and had a history with knifes. He also had a history with drugs per his girlfriend who said she was trying to get him to stop...(great he's whacked out on meth too, along with knowing no boundaries and being a delinquent for years.) Oh don't forget..he hasn't been to school since age 13. What exactly were all those people doing in that house at that hour...if there were other juveniles there...how come they were also not in school...maybe a drug party.

So..probation goes to serve a warrant and pick him up...they are unarmed. This 16 yr old 6 ft 180 pounder pulls a 10 inch fixed blade hunting knife and threatens the probation people who are unarmed and only have pepper spray. He is pepper sprayed and then continues to back probation out of the house threatening them with the knife. He is pepper sprayed again and continues to threaten them with the knife. He takes off passing a school with children present getting out for the day...He continues to turn and threaten probation saying he will stab them.....

EPD is called for back up...all they are told is that there is a 180 lb person 6 ft tall in the vicinity of a school being chased by probation. A off duty deputy who is picking up his child sees the armed suspect being chased by his kids school and sets off to help.

This 180 lb 6 ft tall armed person goes into a ravine that is so steep and dense with bamboo that it is hard to see and hard to get out of. Officer comes within 5-7 feet and this person continues to brandish and threaten after being told to drop it...(now he probably is on meth)...officer can't let him go...kids are around and he is dangerous...officer can also get seriously hurt or killed by meth whacked 180 lb 6 ft tall knife wielding person and ends up shooting him.

Tragic for everyone, but justified as I see it....

Too bad his family couldn't raise him with boundaries...too bad they were too busy with their own lifestyle to raise him....too bad he made awful choices....He was old enough to be armed and dangerous. If he had killed anyone he would have been prosecuted as an adult. He made adult choices that are made way too often these days....16 yr olds coming to school armed...shooting teachers, principals and kids who are truly innocent...armed 15-17 yr olds killing their parents or a transient on the waterfront.

I happen to be grateful that no innocent children from the school were hurt by this guy. I am glad he didn't get away to hurt anyone in his deranged mood.

As for Dr. Ken and R. Trent...go back under your rocks!

 
At 10:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Regarding anyone responding to 2:37 AM: Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words (Proverbs 23:9).

 
At 10:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10;05 You're the fool here...and so was the idiot cop who didn't use a tazer.

 
At 10:37 AM, Blogger Fred said...

Having worked at our Juvenile Hall many years ago, I'm curious as to what kind of keeper he was during his stays there?

There's easy keepers and tough ones. The tough ones can make your job miserable.

Seems to me, the kids that were the most prone to act out and be major problems were the ones in there for the more milder offenses.

Kids that came in there for heavy duty crimes, like murder, tended to pretty much tow the line and stay out of trouble.

If the cops would have killed some of the real pain in the ass kids I had to deal with when I worked at the Hall, I'd have been tempted to send them a thank you note.

As an aside, regarding kids with knives: I hate to see kids end up in trouble for something that was considered normal behaviour years ago.

That said, I remember one kid who came into the Hall for armed robbery. He stole a pack of cigarettes from somebody in Eureka at knifepoint.

Years later, he ended up stabbing a transient to death over by the Bayshore Mall, over a pack of cigarettes.

His accomplice, ended up in Juvenile Hall. Turned out he didn't directly participate in the stabbing. That accomplice acheived notoriety a few years ago in the accidental killing of an infant- his girlfriends(?) daughter. I believe he got like eight years for that.

His friend who killed the transient got life.

 
At 10:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10:15 the nut

1. he didn't have a taser.

2. the brush was too dense (if you knew anything about a taser, it couldn't have been used in an effective manner in that dense brush...

however, I believe in free speech so continue with your uninformed cop hating rantings.

 
At 10:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fred I realize this is your blog and your opinion but some things you may want to keep to yourself:

"If the cops would have killed some of the real pain in the ass kids I had to deal with when I worked at the Hall, I'd have been tempted to send them a thank you note."

Do you want to delete this part before too many see it?

Feel free to delete mine too.

 
At 11:01 AM, Blogger hucktunes said...

10:03 AM, why demonize the family? Lots of kids and their families get swept up in the local juvinal justice system. Meth is a real problem, all across this great nation of ours. But it's not fair to blame the family. It's a real heartbreaker.

 
At 11:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is not demonizing the family but pointing to reality.

This is a very sad aspect of a 30 year drug culture and individuals who have not raised their children, but have forced them to raise themselves. It is called the truth and the truth can be very harsh. I call it like I see it and in my job I see it too much. This is why you have young people doing very serious crimes. Like a 12 yr old killing another kid for his nike's. Or columbine. Until you quit viewing it as demonizing and use it for a starting block as to what went wrong with this young man, you don't learn from this tragedy and do as a community what it takes to start to bring this problem down.

You are correct in saying that it is not a family problem...it is a "lack of family" problem. Meth has a big role, for the family and for this young man who made a lethally wrong choice.

 
At 11:52 AM, Blogger hucktunes said...

I'm sure that there will be a thorough investigation. We, here in Eureka, have some very fine police officers. A couple years ago Mike Quiggly disarmed a gun waving nut from atop his bicycle. I've had a couple of minor scrapes with the law myself and have always been treated decently by the cops and the courts. I would not want to be a cop. Way too much responsibility. I'm sure that the officer that shot the kid will be haunted by that moment for the rest of his life. It will be interesting to see how the investigation plays out.

 
At 12:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:08, stop it. We don't want to blame the criminals and the poor parenting that led to their criminal behavior. We would much rather blame cops. We can't fix the decay of western society. We can get good cops fired and that will at least help us sleep at night.

 
At 12:19 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

10:03 - where did you get that info?

 
At 12:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was in the Times Standard, the Eureka Reporter and on the radio.

Eric...I read, thats exactly what was reported today!

 
At 12:25 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Well, it sure wasn't in Machado's ER article. I'll go check out the TS article shortly.

 
At 12:28 PM, Blogger Eric V. Kirk said...

Within 21 feet, a knife is more dangerous than a holstered handgun. It has been repeatedly demonstrated that an active adult can close that distance before an alert trained officer can draw and use a gun. And the knife won't jam or misfire, and needn't be reloaded.

21 feet seems a long way away. The kid was allegedly much closer, so it's a moot point.

 

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