Morrissey's My Word Column
9:17 on a previous post commented, "Is there going to be comment on Brian Morrissey's use of the word 'tract' this morning?
9:17 was referring, I believe, to this commentary by our very own Brian Morrissey. I don't know that any commentary is needed as far as his use of the word tract is concerned. We went through the debate on the track vs. tract issue here some time ago.
As far as the commentary itself, I'd say he's pretty much right on. This is much along the line of what I said here not long ago after that Explore The Possibilities event held earlier on by CREG. Much, if not a lot, of what the CREG speakers proposed as possible uses for the Balloon Tract are actually incorporated into the Marina Center plan.
Sure, as Brian points out, one difference is Security National has a way to pay for their idea, and that's a big difference and a strong selling point.
A couple other points of contention can be accepted or dismissed, depending on one's point of view: Marina Center isn't another government project, as keeps being proposed by opponents. I think that's a good thing.
Then there's the big sticking point: Home Depot. Oh well. I don't have a problem with Home Depot, despite the fact I might never bother going there.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 9:44 AM
105 comments
105 Comments:
All the anti-marina center people harp on the traffic problems it brings. What they won't admit to is that EVERY proposal they have put forth will cause traffic problems as bad if not worse.
True. Traffic congestion is inevitable, no matter how much one plans. If something ends up on the Balloon Tract that people actually use, congestion will be one of the unpleasant side effects.
Fred,again if you went to the forum last Friday you would have heard the presenters discuss the advantages of pedestrian and bike oriented projects for the property.
Go over to Buhne Tribune to see a nice little bit of info regarding the latest Marina Center mailer.
10:58 How do you propose tourists would access an aquarium at the Balloon Track without their cars-are they supposed to walk from Redding, LA, Japan?
I stand by my original post-all Marina Center Literature, news releases etc use track as in Union Pacific documents...was Brian using ‘tract’ to appease TS readers- it most surely worked on a subconscious level.
Yup, everyone shopping at Costco rides their bikes or walks there.
I find it ironic that one of David Cobb's tenants owns a SUV.
I guess it's do as I say, not do as I do.
11:23 is lying.
mresquan said...
"Fred,again if you went to the forum last Friday you would have heard the presenters discuss the advantages of pedestrian and bike oriented projects for the property"
Mresquan! Fred covered the salient points of the CREG presentation from newspaper reports-there isn't much he missed.
Yes, I was there.
What the hell-aquariums don't need people in cars?? A Culinary Center-you've got to be joking if that creates jobs and Fred agreed your cooking idea would be great...in the Eureka Inn. Why can't you gather up your friends and get a grant for that?
You can't have it both ways. Public input is coming in from Eureka people (who vote in the city of Eureka). Your personal opinion only counts if its credible.
Thanks 11:13
From Buhne Tribune:AFTER practically swearing on a stack of bibles that they're not endorsing candidates based solely on their perceived opposition to the Marina Center, the Times-Standard reveals its City Council endorsements: Larry Glass, Ron Kuhnel and Mike Jones
Swearing on a stack of bibles made them look highly suspicious.
Fred, the assertion that any type of development on the Balloon Track/t would cause te same amount of traffic as a Home Depot is not based upon any actual traffic studies, now is it? Studies which have been done elsewehere have shown that there is virtually nothing else that woud create the same 8,000+ single-passenger vehicle trips per day.
Light manufactuing, like all of those businesses in Arcata, would generate actual revenue for the city (as opposed to just redistributing exisiting dollars) with just a fraction of the traffic.
An aquarium or something similar would bring in fewer vehicles but many more people per carload,and likely spending more per person. Plus, the money spent there would mostly come from out of the area, and would be augmented by dollars spent at hotels, restaurants, and shops.
These are ideas that would actually grow the economy, rather than just shift money from local businesses to Home Depot. 8,000 vehicles per day with no economic benefit, versus far fewer vehicles and new money coming into the area. Not much of a decision, is it?
My cooking idea? Not me on this one.That's Maggie Herbelin.All the project needs to succeed is, a new location for the Lost Coast Brewery's brewing facility,some light industry,a bar/nightclub,a nice restaurant,a new spot for the discovery museum,a few acres for small locally owned retail businesses,and a whole lot of open park space surrounding the wetlands.The funding for these projects already exist here.Keep it all locally owned,and keep Home Depot out,still haven't seen one valid reason we need it.
Uh, one valid reason. Rob wants a Home Depot because he is no longer welcomed at Pierson's?
Anonymous said...
I find it ironic that one of David Cobb's tenants owns a SUV.
I guess it's do as I say, not do as I do.
11:23 AM
Anonymous said...
11:23 is lying.
11:43 AM
Well golly, I guess that's even more confirmation that David Cobb and his cohorts are obsessed with their public images on these local blogs.
After all, why else would they hold an illegal closed session of the Green Party County Council (which violates the Brown Act, since nobody's getting hired or fired, no real estate is getting purchased and no lawsuits are planned or threatened) just to discuss all that awful free speech going on at eurekagreens.blogspot.com these days.
Like any tinpot fascist, Cobb is petrified of being exposed for a fake, fraud and phony who bullies the local left into submission. His narrow-minded viewpoint on the Balloon Tract as just more falsified proof of his corporation-fixated propaganda must be enforced and shoved down the throats of local leftists to further his own career and his own "fundraising" to pay DUHC's house payment.
Instead of waterfront greens it should be Arkley greens.Narrow minded viewpoint of the ballon tract wow 1:15, let's here your ballon tract views huh. Or greens for home depot sounds good, or greens for low wage jobs, or how about greens for toxic leakage(would fit well because these greens are toxic leakage themselves). Green party members look closely at what this Charles Douglas, Dave Giarizzo faction of greens is doing to your party.
The Democratic Party too.
anaon,1:15 sorry to tell ya but Cobb's views on the balloon tract are echoed by many in the community,including your fellow registered greens.As a matter of fact you endorsed those council candidates.They are not narrow minded,but your attacks on him are.Please provide evidence of his bullying and fraud.I've asked this before and still haven't seen anything.Democratic party operative is what I was hearing yesterday.Where is that Nancy Flemming story which was reffered to on the greens blog?
Anon 1:29,Yeah Charles pisses people off,whatever.If you don't like him,quit dealing with him.Many folks around the community have,and life goes on.Dave's a good guy just mislead on some things,but his intentions are good and he doesn't devote much time to cleaning up the mess that's the Eureka greens.I don't think anyone in their right mind would.I say shut down the Eureka greens,the only thing it has accomplished is more bickering amongst greens and progressives,and don't even bother with this waterfront greens,as it's problems will be no different.
12:22
What in heavens name are you smoking?
"a whole lot of open park space surrounding the wetlands"?? So what...the homeless can have benches instead of boxcars?
You are definitely in the minority.
"keep Home Depot out,still haven't seen one valid reason we need it"
How about reason #1-the developers believe they need an anchor store to make the project financially viable. Did you guys pick on General Growth for bringing Mervyn's in as an anchor store? Did you complain about Sears and Penny's getting nre locations to move into the Bayshore Mall?
Why can't Lost Coast, light industry, be located at Marina Center-are you anti local business?
I am beginning to detest you.
2:14,The benches are already set up for them on the boardwalk. Ya know Nancy Flemming's crowning accomplishemt.But hey,if Home Depot goes in they'll have their fair share of shopping carts to dump everywhere in old town,creating another excuse for the city to waste money on hiring more private security officers to tackle that problem.
2:22 I like the benches on the Boardwalk-I sit there for concerts in Old Town, didn't even need to kick another bum off first.
You are the one who brought up the park-who would be paying for that? Parks are usually public and maintained by the city...you don't think things through much before posting-we can't afford to maintain the parks we have nimrod.
I would be happy to slap you right now!
2:19 where can I get some of what you're smoking?I said all the project needs to succeed is putting in a new spot for the LOST COAST BREWERY's brewing facility.The owners have stated to both Brian Morrissey and myself that they don't want to move the restaurant,only the brewing facility.A bar/nightclub(LOCAL),a nice restaurant(LOCAL),a new location for the Discovery museum(LOCAL),a few acres for small LOCALLY OWNED retail businesses,and a whole lot of open park space surrounding the wetlands.But hey,I'll trade the retail business part for light industry,why not.As long as it remains LOCALLY OWNED.Keep it all LOCALLY OWNED.This is an anchor.
How do my views seem anti-local?
Home Depot is anti-local.
12:16 made some good points, but left out one biggie.
Redistributing tax dollars from Crescent City will be painful for them, but shifting tax dollars out of McKinleyville, Fortuna, etc. will cause financial pain here in our neighboring communities.
Thank you 12:35. I've been waiting for someone to mention the elephant in the room.
Rob is insistent on Home Depot, despite Cherie's "promise" there wouldn't be a big box, becuase he wants to get a poke in at Bill Pierson for juvenile reasons. This is about besting his political opposite in the financial arena, more than a belief that HOme Depot will bring sunshine and prosperity to Humboldt County.
The Prosperity Document, recall, states that big box is specifically not desired for the community.
2:19, if I'd been here when that mostrosity went up, I most certainly would have spoken up. You mean you didn't???
How much money has 12:16 spent at the Aquarium in Crescent City?
This balloon tract thing has you all messed up in the head. I'm amazed.
mresquan said...
Anon 1:29,Yeah Charles pisses people off,whatever.If you don't like him,quit dealing with him.Many folks around the community have,and life goes on.
That's peculiar Mr. Konkler, since I drove by Has Beans yesterday and saw you talking with Mr. Douglas. Do you mean to tell us you're playing both sides of the fence here?
I say shut down the Eureka greens
Sounds like Mark Konkler agrees with his buddy Michael Smith after all. Well it looks like you got what you asked for and what David Cobb has been trying to do all along. The local was humming along before Cobb and his housemates showed up to halt all progress.
The Green party will get a big october surprise....sometime in january.
Hey,and I've made a few phone calls doing a poll for Charles's paper as well.And there'a a nice picture of us talking on Bob Huck's blog.Do I have anything against him,no,but some do as verified by Charles's own thoughts on his myspace blog.
I agree with Michael after all, I agreed with him on that one from the get go,he was right it was a boondoggle from the get go and look what happened.Too many committees never helps anything,especially when its members don't get along.Like Dave Giarizzo once asked"How many greens does it take to change a light bulb?" The answer,"It depends on which committee you ask".
Have you ever noticed that no matter what the topic-it always turns around to Marina Center.
We need a good old fashioned rumble! I'd like to smack a couple hippy heads together!
Joe Sixpack
So what's your solution Konkler? Roll over and let Cobb have his way with the Greens without any opposition at all?
Interesting....a discussion on Morrissey and the Marina Center turns into a discussion of the Green's falling apart. It kind of let's you know the make up of the Greens. No worry of them coming into power. They would implode upon inauguration.
Funniest thing is esquan isnt a green, so lord knows why they even care what he thinks, its like the democrats worried over what leo sears thinks of them.
hmmm...3:53 PM
"The Prosperity Document, recall, states that big box is specifically not desired for the community."
Let's all base our positions on highly credible research by the county, which just invested $600,000 in a very succesful redevelopment proposal that was based, in large part, on the Prosperity predecessor document.
3:53 PM nailed it on the other stuff...
"Rob is insistent on Home Depot, despite Cherie's "promise" there wouldn't be a big box, becuase he wants to get a poke in at Bill Pierson for juvenile reasons. This is about besting his political opposite in the financial arena, more than a belief that Home Depot will bring sunshine and prosperity to Humboldt County."
So true.
"these greens are toxic leakage themselves"
Yeah, it sure sounds like Michael Smith letting us all know what his vision for Humboldt is from his perch in Eugene.
It's this kind of useless ad hominem that drags down the party but maybe thats the intent behind it all.
Pretending the council slate and David Cobb are the same. What an insult to the intelligence of Glass Kuhnel and Abrams. The later two wont have anything to do with DUHC and their BS.
12:15, you don't know what you are talking about. Prosperity is an economic development strategy. Redevelopment is a tax-increment financing tool for land-use development. Neither is 'based on' the other.
Regardless, though, your attmept to discredit any study that doesn't support the Big Box plan just confirms what we've all been seeing; that the 'Marina Center' supporters don't need any 'facts' to know that it will miraculously result in thousands of new jobs and millions of dollars in new tax revenues. There are no facts or studies to support this pie-in-the-sky belief, just enpty statements and anecdotes. The studies which have been done all caution that a Home Depot will, at best, result in little or no benefit to the community. At worst, it could cause a significant loss of jobs and tax revenues while putting dozens of locally-owned store out of business.
But you don't need facts if they don't fit your predetermined view, now do you?
"12:15, you don't know what you are talking about. Prosperity is an economic development strategy. Redevelopment is a tax-increment financing tool for land-use development. Neither is 'based on' the other"
-You could have stopped there and I still would have respected you.
Wow!
The Times-Standard took editorial license-that's a first!
Upon reading your My Word column; I thought there he goes bending to the will of the public again...
I can rest easy now knowing they didn't brain wash you after all those CREG meetings. Thanks for clearing that up!
Anonymous said...
"these greens are toxic leakage themselves"
Yeah, it sure sounds like Michael Smith letting us all know what his vision for Humboldt is from his perch in Eugene.
It's this kind of useless ad hominem that drags down the party but maybe thats the intent behind it all.
Pretending the council slate and David Cobb are the same. What an insult to the intelligence of Glass Kuhnel and Abrams. The later two wont have anything to do with DUHC and their BS.
8:08 AM
Again, why do you even care what these Cobbite losers think? They can't build a damn thing on their own, they can only live by leeching off of others. It's good you cut off the cancer and made your local a neighborhood thing. It will also give you more credibility to outline a better solution for this silly Balloon Track dichotomy. Real Solutions, not Loco Solutions.
So what is the anti-Cobbite greens position on the development of the waterfront and the Marina Center project?I've only read and heard criticism of David about his opinions,but have heard nothing about specific solutions and ideas from his enemies within the green party.
Hey Brian Morrissey,
You make any last second phone calls to the scheduled CREG speaker who had worked on the Truckee Railyard Redevelopment? Word on the street is you made some threating phone calls.
Care to comment?
10:01 You are way out of line-your comment is very Richard Salzmann. Stinky.
Agreed!
"10:01 You are way out of line-your comment is very Richard Salzmann. Stinky."
Throwing Salzmanns name in there to avoid the truth?
I'd love to hear Morressey comment on this-
I'm sure when he sees this he will...
Throwing Salzmanns name in there to avoid the truth?
This is a game I see played more and more by the Arkleyists. Just mention the dreaded Dem activist Salzman, then get a free pass to big box away our waterfront. How Richard can be such a huge excuse to justify excusing ourselves from substantive thought is just absurd.
It's kind of the same thing the Cobbites pull in regards to any critique of their exclusionary divisivness and underhanded overthrow of the entire legal structure of the Green Party. David's little drones just have to mention that big bad writer Charles Douglas and suddenly all our concerns are washed away in a sea of journalo-hatred.
Lucky for those of us still capable of rational discourse, we don't have to buy into either Arkley or Cobb. There must be a better choice to uncover.
Tick tock...tick tock...
Its so cryptic on this blog today- its creepy...do you smell 'Stinky'? I can smell him! Eww!!
Arkleyists? Salzmanite? We're going to need a local glossary.
The term "Cobbite" has been in play since Cobb rigged the Green Party convention in 2004, it's a national term that has become more relevant locally as Cobb has pulled his same monkey-wrenching trip here.
SMASH THE COBBITE HIVE!! Those insects are cornered and desperate. Expose them to the light of truth and they shall wither away!
"Tick tock...tick tock..."
Let's get an answer!
Anonymous said...
SMASH THE COBBITE HIVE!! Those insects are cornered and desperate. Expose them to the light of truth and they shall wither away!
7:22 PM
Well given the boot Cobb received squarely in the ass from the state and national Green Parties, in that sense Cobb is indeed cornered here in Humboldt, kind of his last stand for his DemoGreen monkeywrenching ways.
Who cares about Cobb
Answer the question!
Where is that workshop?
Brian?... Brian, are you there?
Just so folks know, the removed 9:29 post was from Brian Morrissey responding to anon 10:01 AM. It said something like...
"No I did not threaten the guy from Truckee. In fact we are friends. We are both presenting at a 'Redevelopment of Rail Yards' workshop on Thursday"
Based on my memory, I think that is close to what he wrote. I suppose he can correct it on this blog if he wants.
10:04, they can't be friends because 'the guy from Truckee' has never even heard of Brian Morrissey. I know because I've spoken with him. If Mr. Morrissey actually posted that, then he was, um, 'mis-stating' something. Maybe that's why he removed it.
In fact, no one involved with the Truckee Railyards project had ever heard Morrissey's name. Seems Mr. Morrissey has been over-selling his credentials, as he apparently had no role in that project.
Additionally, 'the guy from Truckee' was really upset that Mr. Morrissey had so flagrantly mis-represented the Truckee Railyards project by saying that the Town of Truckee gave $600,000 to the developer to do the project. In reality, not one dollar of public money has gone to the developer. In fact, the developer invested his own money into the Master Planning process, committing to build whatever the community wanted built.
Boy, it would be nice to have a developer here who actually cared what the community wants, instead of one who says "If you're me, do you really care what the City thinks?"
The workshop webpage can be seen at:
http://www.cclr.org/railworkshop.htm
Both Brain and 'the guy from Truckee' are presenting at the same session at the above mentioned workshop.
"The guy from Truckee" is Darin Dinsmore.
The Connors family can keep hammering away all they want, yet Brian you have made convincing points without repeating yourself and I believe are more credible. Thank you for taking the time to explain things to 'unknown' people on blogs!
I don't know why Morrissey has a problem with our getting some our of tax dollars to flow back into Humboldt County. Perhaps becuase he thinks that would allow us more say in what occurs here?
As to timing, I'd rather get it done right than in a hurry. But then, I didn't move here to tear a community apart while making big bucks, I have been living here for years, contributing to our community, and will be still when he moves on.
Anon 8:37 - And the Arkley's have been here for decades.What's your point?
"No I did not threaten the guy from Truckee. In fact we are friends. We are both presenting at a 'Redevelopment of Rail Yards' workshop on Thursday"
So if this is the case, was he pulled from the presentation because of the friendship? Why not let him speak? There is no doubt that he could add to the discussion. Is it because you would rather he speak on behalf of YOUR project?
If you truely want to unite this community Mr. Morressey, please play fair
I don't mind the misspelling of my name. I get Connors with an O quite a lot. But what are you talking about, 8:03? Are you saying Brian Morrisey is more credible than we are? That's probably true in some circles and on some subjects. So what?
"So if this is the case, was he pulled from the presentation because of the friendship? Why not let him speak? ... Is it because you would rather he speak on behalf of YOUR project?"
One word. Yes.
Hi Brian. My apologies for not posting under my own name (10:23.)
CREG's scheduled speaker was Darin Dinsmore. He had to cancel due to an urgent family matter. I am not aware of any "threatening phone calls" made by you or anyone else.
I went to Truckee this summer and spoke with Darin and other folks involved in the Railyards project. Sorry to say that neither he nor anyone else I spoke with knew your name. You may have sigend documents, but no one recalled meeting you or working with you on the project. Perhaps this explains why your comments on the project have been so inaccurate?
The Truckee Railyards Master Planning process began in November of 2004, one month after the Eureka City Council killed such a planning process. Before that, the Town of Truckee had done a Strategic Visioning Plan and other groundwork, just like the City of Eureka. Both projects are currently in their Draft EIR stages, but the Truckee project is expected to sail through, while yours flounders due to its constantly-changing definition and the lack of 'due diligence.' If anything, the Truckee project has been on a shorter, and more accelerated, timetable, and is expected to break ground well in advance of the Non-Marina Center. That is the value of the Master Planning process. It gets things done better, faster, with less cost and less division.
You pointed this out yourself. The money that was spent on the Master Planning process ("sponsoring a series of meetings, workshops and study sessions") produced "a direct benefit to the developer - it paid for his due diligence." In other words, Master Planning produces a benefit for both the community and the developer: It gets them working together on the same vision to avoid protracted development battles like the one we have here.
What you missed, or mis-represented, in your post, was the timing, sources, and purposes of the funding. The Town of Truckee received a $300K Sustainable Communities Grant from the EPA, which was matched by $50K from the Town. Rick Holliday agreed to come on board with the project before the Master Planning process and contributed another $300K of his own money, a 45% match. The bulk of the EPA grant was dedicated to the restoration and realignment of Trout Creek, an off-site project. Effectively, then, the Master Planning study has been paid for by the developer, with only $50K of public money. Of that amount, only about $200,000 has been spent so far.
At the “town hall meeting” hosted by Jeff Leonard, various audience members mentioned Truckee as an example of how the City could be 'proactive' about getting a good project built. You dismissed that project by stating that the way the Town of Truckee got proactive was “They offered us $600,000 of taxpayer money to do this project… They paid us $600,000, or actually paid Rick Holliday… to sponsor this stuff that we’re doing now to move this process forward.”
This was a gross misrepresentation. For one, "the stuff we're doing now" has nothing in common with a Master Planning process. Nothing. I would appreciate it if you would be clear on that distinction in the future. For two, not one dollar of public money went to the developer. Rather, the developer put his own money into the public Master Planning study, effectively committing to build whatever the community wanted built.
You say "We have done many of the same things." You have not. Your company's approach has been the polar opposite of the Truckee model, and has had the opposite effect. While we are stuck in this divisive trench warfare, the Truckee project is sailing through without any public opposition. None.
The Truckee Master Planning process has cost about $50K of public funds, plus perhaps $150K (so far) of the developer's own money. How does this compare with the Non-Marina Center? How much private and public money has gone into this money pit so far? How much money has been spent on flashy brochures, advertising, and door-to-door campaigning, trying to sell the community a product they didn't ask for? How much City staff time has been spent? How much money will likely be spent on lawsuits and legal bills? How much division has this project created? What has been the real cost to this community?
Please do not confuse a planning process with a permitting process. Planning unites a community; Lack of planning divides it. The two are night and day.
Brian, your op-ed piece began with the statement "For years, Eureka has been actively engaged in a public process to guide the development of the Balloon Tract."
Could you please be more specific? Are you talking about the public voting down a Big Box store for the site in 1999? Or the way the City Council publicly halted an already-funded communty visioning/zoning process? If you cannot get more specific, we will have to conclude that your opening sentence is well, a lie.
Yes Greg and Carol-I do think Brian Morrissey sounds more credible and in this context: I am not new to the community nor am I 'new' in any respect.
I have watched and waited and heard many plans and studied many studies-that gather dust year after year-after year on shelves. Nothing gets going-the Waterfront deteriorates, metal buildings go up all over town without a word or a discussion or a process. Its all talk- talk- talk- not action.
Now I have heard Brian Morrissey and I have patiently listened to you people who I have no label for-repeating yourselves- posting the same arguments over and over- and over. But I listen to what Brian Morrissey says because its becoming clear they (SN) are interested in a process that produces results.
These Security National people, Brian Morrissey I guess the spokesmodel-is telling me they have a plan and invite my comments- having meetings- having hearings- having discussions that are rational with experts in the field like Susan Gallardo, Frans Lowman, all kinds of people from SHN who are local and have studied the Balloon Track until they have every plant, ditch and monitoring well memorized and can recite them in their sleep.
I trust these experts who have studied the site over your rhetoric. Yes I do think Brian Morrissey is more credible- but you aren’t even in the same genus and species.
Its like comparing apples and turds.
As if you could tell the diference.
"you aren’t even in the same genus and species"...? What are you talking about? Or is this more all-too-typical vilification of someone with whom you do not agree? Shoot, we probably agree on a lot of things. Unfortunately, it seems to get personal way too quickly. Top bad it is one-sided, Mr. Anonymous.
No need for name calling or other wild comparisons. I am not an apple, and Brian is not a turd (or vice-versa). Carol and I think we are being good community members and patriotic Americans. Maybe you have another approach - fine. Speak up. You might even try using your name instead of throwing turds and apples from behind your cloak of anonymity.
I am just a local guy who has opinions and a constitutional right to express those opinions. Brian is just a development executive trying to get a project underway.
Lighten up, all. It would help the discussion.
I agree with you both and look forward to Brian's next post.
"Just so folks know, the removed 9:29 post was from Brian Morrissey responding to anon 10:01 AM. It said something like...
"No I did not threaten the guy from Truckee. In fact we are friends. We are both presenting at a 'Redevelopment of Rail Yards' workshop on Thursday""
Why did he pull this, then respond again without mentioning any conversations about the CREG presentation?
Sorry Greg-I posted 10:48 someone else threw in the apples comment which was immature and unnecesssary.
No greg...you are a guy that has constantly misinformed folks and believes that if you rudely scream over others then you will drown them out.
Frankly, you are offensive to my liberal sensibilities.
If you don't mind using your real name, feel free to call me a the office to discuss anything I've written or said. We live in a time where discussion should happen. If you are just throwing that garbage out as a tactic, I won't expect the call.
4:35 is NOT 4:39
But someone sure is keeping a close eye and taking every opportunity to make every post their own! Hey. Not nice.
Unfortunately Greg...I have tried to talk to you and you are so close minded that it isn't worth the time any longer. Also, unfortunately, your closemindedness and your wife's has hurt lots of local democrats and frankly I am feeling rather "done" with your antics and "done" with your double speak.
That's politics. I run into old friends and we each say "I'm right and you're wrong". So okay, be done.
To add to that 5:20 when I have tried to talk to both the Conners, they appear to be listening but they are actually waiting to jump in and already forming their rebuttals instead of hearing me. Its discouraging that I listen to every word THEY say- then its my turn...then they repeat the same thing (again) as if to cancel me out! Its Frustrating.
Not very 'conversational' if there is no forward movement or sense that if you stay a little longer a consensus may be possible.
Where you at Brian?
8:09PM- Take up the Greg Conner's challenge and call him at his office. I have checked out this thread and he and Carol Ann have at least kept their dialouge open faced with their real identity that helps qualify their beliefs. Respect them for that. Oh, yes, Greg will answer that phone.
Thanks for that, Richard. I was thinking about anon's complaints yesterday while I was working in the garden. Maybe Anonymous has tried to talk with me at a public event or before/after a meeting. During the last three years back in politics (thank Dubya for that), I have found that I do not hear well in crowds (three ear operations, the last one in L.A. to correct the first two). I hate to admit it, but I'm pretty deaf on one side and don't hear well in crowds. That can make me come off as arrogant and uncaring. Or, of course, Anonymous could have caught me in mid-opinion, when I am least likely to be listening actively.
Democrats dare to disagree, unlike Republicans, whose 11th Commandment is "Thou shall not speak ill of another Republican". We need Lifelong Democrats like you as well as Recovering Repubicans like me to stay in the same boat and keep paddling.
About a quarter of the population seems to buy into the idea that if "someone, somewhere, somehow makes a profit, everyone will be just fine!". Hey, I am a business owner. I approve of profits. But neither religion nor private business should run the government in a democracy.
My biggest problem with Brian's Arkley project is with the way the public has been shoved aside in favor of a public relations campaign. Brian, "consensus" is when we all agree. In a democracy, that never happens. Consensus stifles discussion, which is essential in good decision-making, even when that discussion comes in the form of dissent.
We should all be ornery about protecting democracy. The Authoritarian Conservatives currently in charge of the Republican Party and our national government (see Arkley, R.), do not believe we should trust the will of the voters. Democrats generally do admit that, as disorganized and risky as it may seem at times, the people--all people, voting conveniently, securely, and regularly--are humanity's best hope. There was a time when the Republican party stood for government by democracy, "small d" democracy. That time has obviously passed.
Democracy is not about consensus, it is about government by majority. Mayor Peter LeVallee and Councilmember Chris Kerrigan are the two elected Eureka officials who seem to get that point. The others, well -- I can recommend some books --
Well, enough of that - this is supposed to be about Brian and his My Word column. Personally, I hope the city council changes on November 7. I can't say that will bring back the public process so off-handedly snuffed in favor of a PR campaign - but it would send a message to officials that the people of Eureka take democracy seriously.
Greg you made my point exactly! Didn't actively 'hear' a thing Brian had to say then you launched into your blah blah blah. It obviously isn't because you cannot hear now is it?
Because it looks lie you cannot read as well.
Yes, I perceive you as arrogant. What other conclusion can be drawn as you-in your own words- have illustrated my point so much better than my own post (8:09).
Well, ouch then.
That was a good answer and a start..please shut off everything but your ears when others are talking. Do not start thinking about your rebuttal until you hear the word Go- or see a Big sign.
You might just get someplace and be taken seriously if you can change your conversational style to include other points of view. This is what I like about the public process.
Take it away Brian...
"I hope that we can both agree that the heart of the process – any process – has to be a transparent, open, inclusive dialogue that involves the actual people of Eureka. The goal remains to create a consensus by an active, informed citizenry that has genuine input into the project. We believe that Marina Center is that type consensus."
Sorry Brian but that is plain bullshit. SN is jaming the project down our throughts and you know it. Don't try and pretend you are about a transparent process. When did you ask us if we wanted a big box?
From The NCJ:
Just 10 mega-retailers capture 30 percent of American spending. Home Depot and Lowe's account for nearly half of all hardware store spending.
Because of their size, they put the squeeze on vendors. New "pay by scan" technology means that vendors do not get paid until an item is actually scanned and sold to a customer. Home Depot has led the way in the garden center industry by refusing to pay growers until a plant sells, thus shifting the risk away from Home Depot and onto the growers. Mitchell suggests that big boxes may wipe all inventory costs from their balance sheet this way.
They send American jobs overseas. In response to pressure from Home Depot and Lowe's to lower prices, Black & Decker laid off 4,000 American workers and moved factories overseas. If Black & Decker didn't do it, the chains would have simply found another supplier that would.
They really put the squeeze on small vendors. Mitchell reports that Home Depot's treatment of a small supplier, Santa Fe Custom Shutters and Doors, was ruled in court to be "malicious and fraudulent." The company took on debt and increased its capacity to meet the terms of a Home Depot contract, which the mega-retailer then canceled. The judge noted that Home Depot routinely abused small vendors, and awarded $12 million in damages.
They don't just knock out their direct competitors. Home Depot and Lowe's, for instance, perform over 26,000 installations of windows, roofing, flooring and other products every day. While contractors are often the first to cheer the arrival of a big-box hardware store, they are surprised to learn that these retailers are also after their clients.
Newspapers, banks and other business services are particularly hard-hit by the arrival of the box. They are less likely to advertise in local newspapers or do their banking locally, and as local businesses fold, those banks and newspapers lose customers they can't replace. (So if you were a real estate developer looking to bring a big box to town, and you also owned a newspaper and a bank, what impact would that have on your rivals? Well, never mind. This is all hypothetical.)
Low Prices? Not So Much . Mitchell is all over the Myth of the Low Price. "Corporate retailers commonly offer very low prices at newly opened stores, sometimes sustaining losses at those outlets for months or even years to gain market share," she writes. Consider the following:
A hardware store owner in Albany tracked prices at a rival Home Depot. While individual prices varied, over a couple of years Home Depot's prices gradually rose to match those at other stores.
Mega-retailers often choose arbitrary prices, like $11.67 for a denim shirt, to give the illusion that they have bargained the price down as low as possible. In fact, the shirt cited in this example was marked up by 250 percent.
Chains are well versed in how to influence shoppers' perception of value. Mitchell cites a study that shows that combining the color orange with bright lighting creates the perception of low prices.
Most big boxes offer very low prices on items called "signposts" that most consumers know the price of. (This represents about 5 percent of items in a store.) The rest of the items the "blinds" are priced higher because customers don't know the going price anyway. Home Depot's founder once described this strategy as "islands of losses amid seas of profits." How poetic.
Low price guarantees that offer to beat the competitor's price also offer the illusion of low prices, even though consumers rarely take advantage of the offer and the store usually doesn't drop the price for other customers.
Even customers who do take the time to comparison shop may not be able to. Large chains may require vendors to make an identical item with cheaper materials, and the customer would never know. It may be cheaper, but it also might not last.
Oh, and let's not forget that as customers are lured away from local businesses, they may find that niche products are impossible to find. Using our hypothetical hardware example, a chain store might not carry as many building materials that work for historic homes, products that are particularly weatherproof in a damp climate, or locally-made items.
Good for the economy? You do the math . Small communities, says Mitchell, are often tempted by the promise of increased tax revenue. However, she cites research that shows that those benefits may not materialize or are offset by losses. In one town, big box stores produced an annual net tax loss of $468 per 1000 square feet, while Main Street shops produced a net surplus of $326 per 1000 square feet. Why?
Many towns don't budget for the increased expense of a big box retailer. She cites the example of Royal Palm Beach, Florida, where the presence of Home Depot, Lowe's, and other chains led to 1500 additional police calls every year and the need for a new substation. Most chains have a policy to call the police every time a crime occurs and to prosecute to the full extent of the law, and those large parking lots and shopping carts heaped with goodies can attract crime.
The increased costs of maintaining roads and sewers are also a surprise to small communities. "Local downtown and neighborhood businesses ... are efficient users of public infrastructure and services," she writes. "Sprawling megastores are not."
But what about that tax revenue? Studies show that sales tax revenues may spike initially, but generally remain the same "because consumers only have so much to spend; sales gains in one location are mirrored by losses elsewhere." Also, property tax revenues can decline as downtown and neighborhood businesses are shut down.
And all those swell new jobs? Mitchell points out that a new chain store gives the illusion of job creation because all of those new sales associates in orange aprons are so visible. Job losses are not as obvious as stores close, or businesses downsize, gradually over a few years. In fact, many communities do experience a net job loss.
She also cites extensive data that documents the value of small, locally-owned businesses to a community. From charitable donations, to community involvement, to a willingness to do business with local vendors, to a reluctance to lay off a long-time employee or cheat a customer, local businesses contribute far more to the town than big boxes.
Well, isn't this all just supply and demand? Actually, no. "Retail development does not represent real growth," Mitchell writes. "It does not generate new economic activity." Opening a new store, she asserts, does not increase the amount of milk people drink, nor does it increase their disposable income.
In fact, corporate retailers do not open new stores because an area has unmet demand. They chose locations where they believe they can pull customers away from local businesses. They're also willing to cannibalize themselves, opening multiple stores in a region and ultimately draining tax revenue away from the first store. In general, megastores overbuild, providing far more retail than an area can support.
But can't a big box fit into the community if it's designed right? Mitchell is critical of what developers call "lifestyle centers" or "town centers" with words like "village" or "center" in the name, although "they're not really the center of anything." She describes these mixed developments, with their wide, tree-lined sidewalks, faux architectural elements and big boxes as anchors, as employing "carefully crafted hucksterism designed to lull patrons into a warm nostalgia that induces spending," although they may be located near "genuine Main Streets that are barely functioning."
And what happens when one of those lifestyle centers is built on a waterfront? "Big-box stores, strip shopping centers, and malls are by far the worst type of development from a water-quality standpoint," she writes, citing another expert who explains that vast parking lots produce more runoff and deliver it to a watershed faster than anything else.
So what's next? Big-Box Swindle ends with some inspiring stories of citizen groups that have mobilized against the box. I'll leave you with these examples not, of course, that this has anything to do with us. But, you know, they're nice stories.
Frisco, Colorado stopped a Home Depot from coming to town in part by reminding local businesses that the chain sold more than hardware. It sells pet food; it gives construction loans. Soon banks, pet shops, nurseries and other small businesses joined the fight.
Main Street programs get involved in recruiting new small business owners, much in the way that a manager of a mall might recruit new tenants and help them succeed.
Hardware stores advertise the fact that they participate in independent purchasing co-ops like Ace, Tru Value and Do It Best, reminding customers that they, too, can negotiate low prices through volume buying.
Local business band together to negotiate tax incentives just like the big boxes do. The Austin Independent Business Alliance regularly reminds the city council that its members collectively employ 6,000 people, making them one of the top five employers in the city.
Santa Fe created a "Santa Fe Shares" card that works at regular credit card scanners and offers reward points for shopping at local businesses.
"Shop Local" days include discounts and cool prizes like iPods loaded with local music.
I've barely scratched the surface of this fine, inspiring, rabble-rousing book. Pick up a copy at where else? your local independent bookseller, and keep the discussion going.
Send book news to amy@amystewart.com, or write in care of the Journal at 145 G St., Suite A, Arcata, 95521.
By the Way,it is a transparant process:Transparent amongst anyone who is pro big box.Everyone else doesn't count.
Just to emphasize:
a new chain store gives the illusion of job creation because all of those new sales associates in orange aprons are so visible. Job losses are not as obvious as stores close, or businesses downsize, gradually over a few years. In fact, many communities do experience a net job loss.
and:
And what happens when one of those lifestyle centers is built on a waterfront? "Big-box stores, strip shopping centers, and malls are by far the worst type of development from a water-quality standpoint," she writes, citing another expert who explains that vast parking lots produce more runoff and deliver it to a watershed faster than anything else.
Perhaps a true transparent process would have included things like - "here's a list of anchors we are considering" and "let's discuss why we need an anchor."
They have some good points Brian-
Brian, thanks for your reply, but you have not addressed my primary point.
Proclaiming your first-hand knowledge of the Truckee Railyards project, you stated quite clearly that the Town of Truckee had offered the developer $600,000 of public money to pursue his private project ("the stuff we're doing now.") This was highly inaccurate. The reality is that the developer gave the Town $300,000 of his private money to do their public planning.
I offered the possibility that your inaccurate statement may have been due to a lack of familiarity with the Truckee project. You have rejected that charitable assertion, effectively insisting that your level of involvement puts you in a position to know the details of that project. If this is the case, then why was your statement so wildly inaccurate and misleading? The statement was factually false. It was either knowingly false or simply wrong. Which is it?
Lastly, I bristle at your use of the word consensus. The only 'consensus' you are asking for is the approval of your project as proposed. Essentially you have given the community an ultimatum: We either like this project, or we get nothing. It's Big Box or blight. Again, this is an approval process, not a planning process. If you are truly seeking consensus, then everything needs to be on the table.
Brian is part of a cultural change and may not understand it all. I have posted some reference material that can help us understand just why there is such a disconnect between his approach and ours at
http://greglist.blogspot.com/
Oh Mr Watershead expert, planning expert, economic consensus expert, development expert, political expert, community expert, please tell us more. Man Mr. Lovelace how do you turn down the numerous requests for your expert opinion on everything!
Look at the marina center project everything is on the table - residential-trails- wetland restoration-office buildings-retail - tax revenues - industrial uses - Home Depot (yes Mark people want it and Eureka is the right place for it)
There is something for everyone in the project - even for corporation hating - lets get another community grant - government will solve it all communist like you.
fascism sooo kicks communisms ass!
Reality kicks all your asses. Get a life.
Mark trumps Brian. No brainer. Facts vs bullshit.
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