Gridlock Is Good?
I've said before that I like gridlock in government, at least most of the time. So, it came as a pleasant surprise to see the Humboldt County Association Of Governments once again in gridlock regarding allowing indian tribes representation in the HCAOG.
I'll admit that, despite not following the issue all that closely, I'm pretty much opposed to the tribes having a seat on the HCAOG. I think they have more than enough power already, albeit through the indian casinos which some claim isn't the same thing.
I'd figured that with Bonnie Neely giving Roger Rodoni the boot from the Association, and her taking his place, that would break the tie votes and the tribes would finally win. I'd never thought about Eureka Mayor, Virginia Bass, replacing Pete LeVallee on the board and voting against tribal membership.
Now we're back to square one, at least for now.
Good. Way to go, Virginia.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 8:45 AM
71 comments
71 Comments:
It is nice to see Bonnie is staying bought, trying to get the tribe on board. Yes, I know she got the $25,000 from a different tribe, but only because it would have been too obvious if it had come from Huupa.
Way to go Virgina...
Bonnie has been bought and is now clearly exposing herself for the political whore she is.
If anyone is a "political whore" that would be the Bass lady who takes free undisclosed illegal plane rides on Cherie Arkley's private jet. But if you're a Republican politician like Bass, corruption is just part of the job.
Ah Richard...your just sore you can't get your own way. No, I think the "political whore" crown stays with Bonnie. She has paid well for it.
I met Virginia once and she seems like a real class act.
Hey, as soon as Hoopa re-joins the US, they should be able to get into a local government. I mean, would they let outsiders in on their tribal council?
They are a sovereign nation. Their members operate under the "work is optional" policy. For nations utterly defeated by the evil American empire, they're doing pretty well for themselves.
There are 4 new members on HCAOG and it still remains gridlocked. The new Mayor of Arcata voted with BNeely for allowing the tribe to participate but then after it was 4 to 4 stated maybe the issue should be dropped since it wasn't getting anywhere. At that point Bonnie seemed catatonic since I guess she thought someone migiht just jump in and make that into a motion. I was surprised that didn't happen. The tribe is already getting funds through HCAOG so what's the problem if they don't sit on the board?
I think there is truly a sense that if certain conditions are met, the tribe would be an acceptable member, as would McKinleyville, etc. But the fact this tribe, or any other, can give unlimited campaign contributions to effect the political outcomes of elections whose members sit on this board who they might have a disagreement, is not acceptable.
Let us remember the Eureka ex-Mayor Peter LaVallee accepted a bribe, uh, I mean donation from the Hoopa tribe after the last election contributions forms were filed so there would be no political backlash concerning HCOAG. That has been the problem. And didn't the tribal lawyer say they could do what they want until legislation is changed. Kind of arrogant really.
Agree with 12:35 PM. That is a big issue. Maybe someone remembers if it was the Hoopa tribe that gave ex Mayor Peter LeVallee money at the end of the campaign. If that is the case - were they trying to retain his "yes" vote?? Then there is the issue of Blue Lake Rancheria also wanting a seat on HCAOG but if the rule stays in that must have 5 miles of road to qualify they won't qualify. That rule could certainly change especially after the $25,000 they gave to Neely. Maybe we should just hang onto our hats as the hurricane may be on its way.
"kind of arrogant really"
Yes,and we were so humble in depriving those natives of their homeland, their ancestors, and their futures. Genocide is okay along as you reap the benefits I guess.
If the indians want to be sovereign, and keep up their racial discrimination in who they hire, fine. Let those people drink the firewater all day and do nothing with their lives and culture. But if youre going to be sovereign, and ass-backwards, why dont you go fill in the potholes on your own damn roads?
mresquan,
Give it up, the indians lost the war. They are a conquered people. Inciting them by saying they are the victims of genocide does nothing to help the situation. We should be encouraging them to integrate, like so many others have. Most of their problems (Lack of power, health infrastructure, road infrastructure) is linked to encouraging them to be seperate from the rest of multi-cultural America.
Yes. Peter Lavalle had a donation right before the election from the Hoopa tribe. I can see where Virginia Bass is coing from. Just ask Andrew Bird.
"...Lack of power, health infrastructure, road infrastructure)"
I guess you haven't visited Hoopa recently.
Over 350 million dollars a year goes through the BLC, do you really think they need our help?
I'm sure Hoopa makes a good chunk of change from their casino as well.
Heres an idea. We shouldnt give without the indians giving something back right? Lets get them a seat on HCOAG and in exchange they should promise to clean up their front yards.
Let them in!
Sorry, Fred, but I disagree with you on this issue.
So Carol, you think it is fine they can give all the campaign contributions they want when no other governmental entity can? No wonder you're a Democrat. The rules apply to everyone but you.
The way I see it is if you give the red man an inch they're gonna want a mile. As for the rest of us,Irish, Italian, Portuguese, Canadians, etc. we need to make sure we keep those people underfoot. Christ we gave them casinos, what do they expect?
Carol Ann said...
No, that is not what I am saying. Don't put words in my mouth, thank you!
The Native Americans have been here longer than you or me. If the descendents of the survivors of the genocide can lift themselves out of poverty by having casinos, then more power to them! I don't go to any casinos, so they are not getting my money.
I live near 2 reservations here in Loleta. They are my neighbors. This land was their ancestors land not too long ago. I respect that and give reverence to The Creator everytime I hear and see the geese fly overhead. Give the Native Americans some of the American pie. They contribute to the pie, too! There are many that give their lives to protect the United States by serving their country in the military.
What are you talking about?
Carol wrote, "The Native Americans have been here longer than you or me. If the descendents of the survivors of the genocide can lift themselves out of poverty by having casinos, then more power to them! I don't go to any casinos, so they are not getting my money.".
I'm not sure that's what the issue is as I don't have a problem with anyone running a casino. I'm not sure that Anon.r has a problem with indian casinos, either.
Seems to me the issue is an entity already having a lot of political clout- more than a conventional government entity- and then wanting even more.
So, the tribes can contribute to whatever candidates or causes they want, yet they want to actually sit on a government board as well.
That's like saying members of the Eureka City Council should be able to use money from the City of Eureka General fund for their own campaigns.
Ok, maybe not quite the same, but close enough.
As far as this idea that the tribes are some beaten down minority that deserves some sort of advantage over every other entity; I'd say that's like saying Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton should be appointed President of the United States simply because negroes were held in slavery over 100 years ago.
Sorry, Carol. Seems to me the reason you're so sympathetic to the tribes on this is because they have a lot of money and influence [already] and they use that influence in supporting lefty candidates and causes.
well, now Carol, if there are native americans older than 44, then yes, i agree, they have been here longer than i..but spare me the whole history of what happened two and three generations ago, just so you can assuage your imagined guilt.
you should curse the federal gov. every time a goose flies by and pray to God it doesn't have bird flu. Poor Bonnie has played her very poor hand and the poker game isn't even over yet. It will be a long and sad term for her. Sadder for us.
It seemed that after the elections that the blogs were becoming more civil. Seems this last week they reverted to anger. I hope this trend does not continue.
Don't be a whimp, Richard. When someone makes a stupid statement like Carol did, totally off subject she was called on the carpet about, then she deserves to be raked over the coals.
Yes Richard, don't interupt the excited finger-wagging of these angry geniuses who sit in their underwear and magically call errant bloggers "on the carpet" by pecking at their keyboards.
Fred,
The right wingers in the state legislature are opposed to our state legalizing gambling.It's not a right vs left issue, and Bonnie Neely is hardly a liberal.And the tribes supporting lefty causes is a fairly secular thing,as one would argue that lefties are more against casinos coming into Bay Area cities for various reasons. Our state's failure to legalize gambling casinos is a classic example of a government which represses its populace and places that blame onto someone else.
"Sorry, Carol. Seems to me the reason you're so sympathetic to the tribes on this is because they have a lot of money and influence [already] and they use that influence in supporting lefty candidates and causes"
Uh, 8:29: Humboldt County's native tribes are among the poorest people in the United States. Casino money donated to politicians is certainly "special interest" money - the natives want to protect their one source of real income, money thrown at them by people seeking expensive entertainment. Racism can be subtle, but it is still racism.
Everyones got motives. Self interest in its self is not a cad thing. If local native peoples have more economic power,some nice realestate lady has a beyyer chance to sell a house. We have all been screwed in the past--- tribes most certainly,and we are all sinners as the book says. The one and only question is ,What choice do you make today? If you say the man is screwing me I have no power so I might as well smoke crack,you are simply weak. If you have no compassion for other who are in strif,you are also weak. Its all about choice.
Everyones got motives. Self interest in its self is not a cad thing. If local native peoples have more economic power,some nice realestate lady has a beyyer chance to sell a house. We have all been screwed in the past--- tribes most certainly,and we are all sinners as the book says. The one and only question is ,What choice do you make today? If you say the man is screwing me I have no power so I might as well smoke crack,you are simply weak. If you have no compassion for other who are in strif,you are also weak. Its all about choice.
The poorest in the nation? in high school in the 70's every indian kid got a brand new car. No one else could afford that. Most wrapped them around a tree. That was before casinos. Now most get $5-6,000 a month without working. Poor they are not, but if staying on the reservation keeps them poor that is a choice in a nation like ours which does not have a caste system.
IMHO
Carol Said (and I am NOT making this up):
"I admit that I may feel some responsibility over my ancestors settling in Plymouth Colony in the 1600's"...
So a logical extension of that guilt is to extend HCAOG membership to Hoopa? Sheesh, thats a stretch...
What I really really hate is the cries of racism, when there are legitimate questions regarding native american membership into quasi governmental boards and associations like HCAOG...like Brown act requirements the other agencies are required to abide by and the tribes arent...what I got out the article was that if the tribe was willing to abide by the same laws and give up their soverign status when it comes to HCAOG matters, they would be admitted...has nothing to do with Carol's great great great grandpappy.
paul
If they took the time to put down the canned salmon and pabst blue ribbon, maybe they could pick up a shovel and fill in there own potholes!
Uh, 8:29: Humboldt County's native tribes are among the poorest people in the United States.
Over 350 million dollars a year goes through the BLC
"I admit that I may feel some responsibility over my ancestors settling in Plymouth Colony in the 1600's"...
Carol, Greg, you guys are the racists here, how dare you put people down as being the poorest, or feeling sorry for them for the color of their skin. Humboldt County is poor, the tribes aren't.
Once again Carol, you're big on ambiguious statements(to wit):
"Disagree, Paul. It DOES have something to do with it, because it is cultural.",
without answering the specific concerns that have been brought up, such as not being subject to the brown act, which, if you are familiar with local and calif state governments, is a HUGE factor...once again you ignore the substance of my post, which is that if those concerns were addressed, membership would be granted...But you choose to hurl out mildly offensive invective ("cultural"), generational guilt ("I admit that I may feel some responsibility over my ancestors settling in Plymouth Colony in the 1600's") and try and apply it to membership in HCAOG. And when there are those who point out very real and valid concerns, you cry racism.
I dont mind having a honest intellectual disagreements, but to tie this to race and culture is flat out intellectually dishonest, and the articles point out that if the tribe were to comply with the brown act requirements and soverignity issues when dealing with HCAOG, membership would be granted...but nooooo you try and demonize those who would dare disagree with you with the racist brush..sad, really.
Paul
Paul
There are plenty of tribes in California with lots of miles of roads and none of them have asked to be on their county's COG. This will be a first on any COG. There is a tribe on the Salton Sea restoration JPA but that seems logical as it was formed for a restoration project and the tribe has a lot of that land and of course would want to protect that land from being damaged if it is considered sacred land.
There are lots of differences between the public agencies that currently sit on HCAOG and the tribe. The tribe does not pay sales tax while all other entities do, along with the campaign contribution issues, Brown Act and it goes on from there with other differences. The tribe is represented on the HCAOG Technical Advisory Committee where the funds git divvied up and recommended to the HCAOG board. They have received money for road repairs and have asked for a study which is required to look into traffic calming in Hoopa to the tune of over $200,000. I don't understand what difference the tribe will have if they sit on the board over being on the TAC. More power?? More $$$?
This is white greed, pure and simple. Whitey seeks to subjugate the Natives. All the natives want is a seat at the table. Shame on you whitey!
1:10, stop making sense...you are a rascist, just like me, for using logic and reason.
Carol, when you get back from the peace thingy you are doing, why dont you try answering some of the substantative questions without, well, you know, "racism" , guilty feelings, or cutural differences...
paul
126, lol
Seat ready and waiting, as long as they are willing to abide by the same set of rules as the other board members.
go back and get your 215 prescription filled.
Whitey, you sure do think you know everything. But you need work on your rotting teeth, maybe its the meth? Sure do got alot of crazy pale faces in whitey land.
Carol STILL refuses to address the basic question... "you think it is fine they can give all the campaign contributions they want when no other governmental entity can?" Just answer the damn question.
I'm not Carol but I'll answer: Yes it would be great to let them give all the campaign contributions they want. If they took over the whole fucking world they couldn't possibly do a worse job than the old male europeans are doing.
oh,that makes a lOT of sense 903
very....i dont know, 19th century...why dont you try adding something a bit...substantive to the discussion...the fact is, you guys have had your asses handed to you by logic and have yet to respond with logic in kind, only trotting out tired worn out cliches...
So does this mean that all portions of all the charters of all the government agencies involved in HCOAG need to be exactly the same so that all is fair? It's safe to say that most people who believe that Hoopa should be on the board don't particularly support the idea that Tribes should give donations to political figures. They (and I) don't think its such a big deal that Hoopa should be denied a seat on HCOAG. It’s not just about Hoopa but the Northeast region of the county that needs representation. Hoopa would do a fine job of serving in that capacity.
Nobody has said charters need to be EXACTLY the same, but rather the tribe, as been stated here, over and over and over and O(well you get the point), they DO need to adhere to Brown Act Requirements and Give up Soveriegn(sp) status with regards to HCAOG. Those two items alone are HUGE, and, to paraphrase Ed Sullivan "Really Big Deals". If it is SO important to the tribe to be on the HCAOG board, why are they unwilling to give these up where it concerns HCAOG?.
Anyway, 10:58, appreciate your input, much better than the cries of racism.
Carol:
Tribes making unlimited donations to political campaigns IS the issue right now in this case. And yet again, you refuse to say whether it is okay by you or not.
A simple yes or no would suffice.
The campaign contribution issue was the stumbling block for those voting against the tribe being allowed to sit on the board and statements were made that this has to be a level playing field. This issue has only become a news item recently but has been going on for years. The tribe went to far as to have legislation passed specifically for the Hupa Tribe to be a public agency and cites for the purpose of being able to get on the HCAOG board which was done in 1986. Then I guess they decided not to try to get on the board until six or seven years ago. This has been going on for years and reading the entire background is interesting reading.
Even though members on the HCAOG board have changed over the years, the vote has not changed. Possibly if the campaign fund issue can be worked out this will change.
Gaaack Carol, please for the love of pete it is not a racial issue; why do you NOT respond to the Brown act and Soveriegnity issues? Really, your tired act of making race an issue (afraid of the indians having power). It is a sure sign of having lost the argument when you keep trotting out the race thing, when time after time, folks here have brought up rational, reasoned points....
8:15 said "Carol:
Tribes making unlimited donations to political campaigns IS the issue right now in this case. And yet again, you refuse to say whether it is okay by you or not.
A simple yes or no would suffice. "
Bravo, Bravisimo...
Carol, we are STILL waiting.
11:58 is exactly right, this has been going for years, it's only received media coverage when Dave Meserve and Peter Lavallee tried to make this a racial issue, thus inciting lemmings like Carol into action with her bizarre
statements like:
"I admit that I may feel some responsibility over my ancestors settling in Plymouth Colony in the
1600's"..."
And the good old Race Card:
Disagree, Paul. It DOES have something to do with it, because it is cultural.
And:
"You are afraid that this might give them more power. "
Sad, really when it's never been about race but rather about a level playing field at HCAOG, and no, neither Spencer Clifton at HCAOG, nor any of the other agencies that make up HCAOG drove the native americans from their land, so please, spare me the race card.
paul
It's whitey insisting on boning the natives.
Yeah Carol - we are still waiting...how many days is it gonna take until you and Greg can think of a response?
Carol is too much of a coward to answer. She can protest in front of the courthouse on a national issue where she has ZERO impact and there is no chance of retaliation, but not answer a simple question truthfully for fear of pissing off her friends and political allies. I am a long time Democrat and her behavior sickens me.
Enough guys. Maybe you should just satisfy yourself in having the [apparent] last word on this issue?
Only cause you ask so nicely.
Carol is too much of a coward to answer. She can protest in front of the courthouse on a national issue where she has ZERO impact and there is no chance of retaliation, but not answer a simple question truthfully for fear of pissing off her friends and political allies. I am a long time Democrat and her behavior sickens me.
...from such a brave person, blogging anonymously for fear someone might actually identify you with your opinions. Hey, I'm not from somewhere else. I'm from Eureka...and there is racism in Humboldt County. Get real, jerk.
lol, I do agree, we've won the argument, even Greg doesnt have a response. I give Carol and Greg credit for the courage of their convictions, I just think (in this instance) she is wrong, dead wrong.
paul
Let's not get too crazy about the issue of allowing an indian tribe into the local governmental consortium on transportation issues, okay? For the record: I favor allowing the Hoopa Tribe into HCAOG, if nothing else because your arguments have so little to do with transportation issues.
Enough guys.Maybe you should satisfy yourself.
"I favor allowing the Hoopa Tribe into HCAOG, if nothing else because your arguments have so little to do with transportation issues. "
Exactly, Greg it has everything to do with cries of racism etc....in your eyes
paul
"Paul",
My fear is that by denying the tribe a role in the local transportation council we would, because of the specificity of the jurisdiction and it's relative lack of import to other governmental issues like say, crime or mental health, actually be practising a form of racism. I say "we" because that is how racism works, in the collective. I do not believe our community shares that value, and we must be careful not to let it sneak up on us. Racism is to be guarded against. That's my opinion.
Now I'm late for Jon Stewart. Later.
Gee Greg. What's wrong with Carol answering. Protecting the little woman is so 1950s.
Go make yourself some camomile tea if my political views makes you feel sick. Try some comedy -- John Stewart is on now. Laughter is great medicine.
I know you need to go and wathc JOhn Stewart (yay, we DO agree on something - he is hilarious), but HCAOG is all about transportion and the allocation of TDA monies, so the issues that you bring up regarding crime and mental health really have very little to do with HCAOG. And I believe, again, its about having equal seating at the HCAOG table, and with the sovierngnity(sp) and brown act issues, the tribe needs to waive (in matters hcaog related) those...
paul
HCOAG has been around longer than the Brown Act. I think that the Act is an arbitrary threshold for being admitted. And as far as waiving "sovereign immunity"; you should explain what it means (legally) and what real impact it has in this application before you throw the term around. If you do a little research you will find there is very little "sovereign immunity" could or couldn’t do for a member of an organization like HCOAG. In a real world application of this matter these issues are both (maybe unintentionally) red herrings. Unless you can point to good a reason not to trust the Hoopa Tribal government.
Do you get the impression all the folks saying it's not about racism are Cracka-lackas?
10:09, Rodoni has tried to explain (albiet, not very well, imo) those issues... 10:16, yes, cogent, intelligent points, yes, that's "cracka-lacka" Not. Lol.
I'd love to see the NCJ do a report on this, and go through the concerns, which many find valid.
10:09, one example is that the tribes can donate $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
to sitting board members, while other agencies are prohibited - you dont have a problem with that?
Rodoni is sitting on PL's tip and he's worried about the Natives?
Sigh, 9:21...The FPPC clearly stated Rodoni has NO conflict there. Try to stay on topic...
Who said anything about conflict? Anyway, apparently there is no such thing anymore; all you have to do is act in "good faith".
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