Breaking Up The United States
Some of you laugh at the idea of Northern California and Southern Oregon forming a new state. A writer at the Wall Street Journal suggests it might be a good idea for many areas of the United States to actually secede from the U.S. and form their own countries.
Hat tip to the Punk Rock Libertarians Facebook group for the link.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 7:58 AM
11 comments
11 Comments:
The author obviously has an agenda, having just written a book called After America. Well, we fought one Civil war to preserve the Union. Hate to think we'd have to go through it again, but at least the next one will be quicker.
Just can't stand the idea of independence, can you?
I didn't find that book Julie - I think that was by Mark Steyn? That's what Google brought up.
Here's the problem.
1)the crazy, aspect that I've discussed before
2)the reason why the WSJ is interested is this. If we get another rural state, the conservative, unrepresentative senate becomes even more unrepresentative and conservative. Same reason why they would be against Puerto Rico's addition as a state
http://robertdfeinman.com/society/senate_vs_population.html
3)Julie, please do not feed FM's Civil War fantasy by acknowledging it. It is the most obnoxious, outrageous aspect of the libertarian looney frindge. It's what they all believe and at least FM has the courage to say it, but it needs to be shunned all the time imho. There will be no Civil War, the left and right agree on this. Just focus on trying to win elections instead Fred, this starts by changing the Republican Party. You should be listening to Glenn Beck right now, he is doing it the right way after months of hemming and hawing. He's deciding to stay in the Rep's and force the McCain's and McConnell's (!!) out. In the end it's just going to mean more Democratic majorities as the Republican's really need more moderation, but at least he understands how to enact change peacefully. On this me and Glenn Beck agree and apparently we both disagree with you.
Independence is fine. Independence from what btw? The UK? Our federal government? Sacramento? I thought we we part of the US.
Independence from what btw?
Independence from nuts like you, Jon.
exactly. Sorry Fred we are both Americans, deal with it.
Is it just me or is it like a trait of Democrats to be ignorant Of the Declaration of Independence special whats outline in the first couple paragraphs... . But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, I know it uses some long word but its really not that hard to understand
THC
I don't like to dwell on the Declaration of Independence that much, but I am appalled at how many people- Democrats being a bunch of them- that refuse to leave others alone.
If you don't get along with someone, you stay away from them. You might even move away. A lot of people seem to feel you should be forced to live with them and their rules.
I still don't understand China's obsession with Taiwan. Taiwan separated from China. So what? I remember decades ago some Chinese premier or some such commenting that if Hawaii wanted to secede from the United States we wouldn't be very happy about that and wouldn't let them.
I was thinking, "Oh, really?". Sure, you hate to see someone get pissed off and leave, but if that's what they want to do then they should have at it.
We got along just fine with Hawaii before they were a state. I'm sure we'd get along fine if they decided to go their own way. The same could probably be said of all the other independence movements in the country.
And there is a small movement in Hawaii that says the state wasn't properly annexed and that wants independence.
Like I said before Fred, I don't have a problem with separation (or independence if you wish) in general. In this case I do because it is not in my interest as I've explained many times. It is in my interest to have Texas and the south leave and I would not have any problem letting them go and I'd think both of us would be a great deal happier. It's a matter of self interest. In the end it's what we all vote on - if we are being honest. Or at least it should be. That is what democracy (and democratic republics) are about.
So I don't confuse you, sometimes communal goals are in my self interest (ie an educated citizenry, universal health care and social security) - why? Because I believe we are stronger as a humane civiliztion and I want to contribute to that.
One more thing Fred, what you don't see is we are never me, we are always we. You are not an island, we have rules and regulations to deal with our interactions, whether in commerce or whatever. It's just the nature of the beast. I am not an estate guy. Many people seem to dream of life behind a guilded gate which is how I envision the Jefferson movement. I love being part of the rabble, this is where life exists. I have no problem with you living your life as you like as long as we agree we are in the same society and we agree to follow it's laws.
I think one of the great differences between rural and urban, besides the demographics, is urban people just live closer to one another. Seriously, it's that simple, proximity. We get used to the idea that we need our neighbor and, oh, btw it's kinda cool to know our neighbor, and oh, btw, especially cool if he/she is different than me because that makes for interesting conversations. Maybe? Something must explain why urban areas are blue and rural red. That's one of my pet theories.
So please, Fred don't think I care what you do, as long as you don't do stupid stuff like murder, steal, and now we have to include new things like burn your grass on fire prone days, or pour gasoline in our streams, or use up more water than you should, or build that extra ranch house on your property. The rules are changing as the frontier disappears. It's not a paradigm shift, just a few new rules that we have to get used to because we are living closer and closer together and there are more and more of us. Sorry for harshing you out, but again, you are going to have to deal with it, and that is not me being triumphalist, but being a realist, because young dreamer, you are a Utopian. Now cut that long hair and get to work! KIDDING.
Fred you do know that it is pointless arguing with an authoritarian. I'm sure many German Russian and Chinese would agree with John I love how people think that the United States is some grand new thing where a society like many others that have come before us start of free prosper become lazy and decadent let the government take control corruption and greed takes over and then slowly destroys the civilization from the inside out we are now at the point where the government has been taken over by greedy crooks that are now implodeing our society this cycle has happened to countless civilizations throughout history
Fred you do know that it is pointless arguing with an authoritarian.
Yes, I know, but a response must be made. Thanks for your input.
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