Marina Center Series In Times- Standard
I can't help but think that everything that could be said about the Marina Center has already been said in the Humboldt blogosphere. Nonetheless, it should be interesting to read the five part series that the Times- Standard will be running this week on the Marina Center controversy.
If nothing else, they shed some light on the poll they ran down in Old Town, asking local merchants what they thought of the plan (I still think it's kind of weird to ask people whether they were pressured into feeling one way or another about the development, but I'm sure they felt they had a reason for doing so).
Anyway, I'll be looking forward to seeing what they say. If there's something that hasn't been discussed here already, maybe I'll post my comments here.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 9:12 AM
81 comments
81 Comments:
This is NOT a one issue election-but thanks to the newspapers...what you see there becomes a fact doesn't it?
We are asking our Supervisor to be plugged in-rather than autopilot as the last 20 years has put Neely in the position of pushing the buttons once in awhile instead of really working anymore.
We are asking for our city council to study the issues and come up with the best overall plan-which they are still working on and deserve the opportunity to finifh instead of handing over the reins for newbies to throw the city upside down and start from scratch.
The challengers wish to change everything--yet they haven't studied those issues yet-how can you change something if you don't know what you propose to change?
This is NOT a one issue election.
Several people that I know of have been pressured to support the Arkley project. And cowed into supporting candidates they did not want to support.
The TS ran a poll? What proof do you have Fred?
Myself and many Old Town merchants I've talked to were called asking our opinion about the project and that our responses would be kept anonymous. The poll happened. Ask the Old Town merchants.
Just want to be sure we are not talking about the fake poll the ER thumped its chest about.
That "fake" poll and the T-S poll were one and the same. From today's T-S article on the Balloon Tract:
"Three Times-Standard reporters pounded the pavement and dropped into as many Old Town retail business as possible. Owners also were telephoned. The idea was that if the newspaper offered an anonymous platform, businesses would be more likely to share their views.
The questions were: “Are you in favor or opposed or unsure about the current Marina Center project and why or why not?” and “Have you received any direct or indirect pressure to support or at least actively not oppose the development? Describe for me how you feel you were being pressured” (if the answer to the first part was “yes”.)
Its in the paper-it wasn't a fake poll! The T-S admitted in their own paper it was their 3 reporters. But I wonder if the way they asked these questions made people think they were being pressured. Did the pollsters identify themselves thoroghly so as not to cause people in Old Town Businesses to think they were being used ONE way or Another?
10:23 Did you think you were being pressured in any way by these guys?
10:40 Did they identify themselves fully?
It sounds fishy still.
Sells newspapers. And that's the new editor's assignment. Milk the most controversial subjects for all their worth--keep the political pot stirring at all times. Big headlines over controversial issues, smaller stories about things that are really going to effect us get back row seating to what sells more newsprint.
"It sounds fishy still.".
Like I said, I think the question was a bit bizarre, one the of T-S reporters e-mailed me and said she gave out probably 50 of her business cards while doing the poll. I don't think they were trying to hide anything.
10:23 wrote, "Several people that I know of have been pressured to support the Arkley project.".
I find that hard to believe, unless they're a member of some cult.
It IS Halloween Fred! BOO.
BWAH HA HA HA HA!
I've heard first-person accounts from business owners who have been pressured by Arkley. I don't know how common this is, but I can't believe that they would make these stories up if they weren't true.
Two examples (keeping them vague on purpose):
1) A business owner crosses Arkley. Arkley blows up. A short time later, the business owner finds that Arkely now owns their building and their lease.
2) A business owner crosses Arkley. Arkley threatens that the person better not have any debts. A short time later, Security National Servicing Corporation holds that business's outstanding loans.
I wouldn't post these stories if I didn't hear them right from the people involved.
And you cannot be assumed credible without posting the actual facts.
Anybody can get on the blogs anonymously the week before an election and talk smack about
anyone they like. I guess-it is up to people who see your posts to shut off the computer or read something from someone who posts with their identification.
Leave some breadcrumbs though, maybe Hansel and Gretl will follow you.
What 12:10 is stating is very true unfortunately.
12:21 For ALL we know you could be 12:10 Give us the facts-just the facts, not rumors.
I'm not 12:10, either, and I know similar stories from people (one is the same referenced above).
I've seen it happen, which is why I'm posting anonymously.
Im surprised what 12:10 is saying is even in doubt. Look at what security national does to make money. To be fair though, many downtown businesses are motivated by money not some grand vision of Eureka. They stand to make lots of money if their property gets bought out. the carrot and the stick. Why would you think both wernt used?
"They stand to make lots of money if their property gets bought out.".
Whose property is supposedly being bought out?
Time for a bit of fun.
truth or dare.
fact or fiction.
trick or treat.
Nick Bravo is coming to Eureka.
oopsie, that should have been a question mark instead of a period.
When the TS called my business, the reporter left their name and TS phone number. There was no attempt to hide who they were or what they were trying to find out.
Anonymous 10:23 AM... Several people that I know of have been pressured to support the Arkley project. And cowed into supporting candidates they did not want to support.
and 12:10 PM... I've heard first-person accounts from business owners who have been pressured by Arkley. I don't know how common this is, but I can't believe that they would make these stories up if they weren't true.
Two examples (keeping them vague on purpose):
1) A business owner crosses Arkley. Arkley blows up. A short time later, the business owner finds that Arkley now owns their building and their lease.
2) A business owner crosses Arkley. Arkley threatens that the person better not have any debts. A short time later, Security National Servicing Corporation holds that business's outstanding loans.
I wouldn't post these stories if I didn't hear them right from the people involved.
This is why the vast majority of the posters on the blogs are completely full of BS.
How in god's name can anyone be pressured into supporting the Marina project or cowed into supporting candidates?
One person – one vote. I don’t think Rob Arkley will be watching over your shoulders to see who you vote for on November 7.
Real estate law states that business leases run with the building. If you’ve got a five-year lease, it doesn’t matter who buys your building. The new owner cannot raise your lease during your term.
Security National doesn’t buy bank loans, they buy non-performing mortgage notes.
You’ve been watching too many mafia movies.
Yes, people lie and make up stories all the time. Just open the local fishwarp.
10:23, yes--this is not a one issue election!! there is a lot more going on in this community then the Marina Center. Yes, we must make a decision on what fits well for the City and what the people want. But,we must also make a decision on what direction this County will take for the future!
Do we want to be poor, moneyless, no revenue for the City or County, hospitals downsizing, and we all fighting for GovT jobs and the likes.
lets all take a good look around---what do you see in this community that we so love?? a bay, a beach, a river, a tree--that may be all nice and dandy---but look really close, isn't that Humboldt coffee cup half empty or as some say----half full? only you can be the judge!!
Do we want to be poor, moneyless, no revenue for the City or County, hospitals downsizing, and we all fighting for GovT jobs and the likes.
No. That is exactly why I oppose a job-killing, revenue killing, service-killing Big Box like Home Depot.
"Yes, people lie and make up stories all the time. Just open the local fishwarp."
I assume your talking about the Eureka Reporter?
2:30, you ignore the obvious. Supporting an issue one way or the other isn't a reference to how someone votes in private at the polls. It's about public support, lending your name as an endorsement.
Well, it will be an interesting article, none the less. Too bad if they only use "anonymous" comments from Old Town business owners. We all know, from the blogs, how reliable the anonymous posters are. Take everything they say with a grain of salt.
We know where the T-S falls, and what slant they will put on the story.
But it will still be an interesting read. I guess that's what the new editor wants anyway, right?
The Times-Standard enlisted the aid of Judith Little, chair of the Humboldt State University Sociology Department, to develop two questions. She teaches the graduate quantitative methods course, educating students about how to construct and implement surveys.
One query was directly aimed at a rumor that surfaced several times over preceding months about inappropriate pressure being brought to bear on Old Town businesses to support the Marina Center.
The questions were: “Are you in favor or opposed or unsure about the current Marina Center project and why or why not?” and “Have you received any direct or indirect pressure to support or at least actively not oppose the development? Describe for me how you feel you were being pressured” (if the answer to the first part was “yes”.)
Are you freakin’ kidding me? (try to watch my language on the blog, Fred)
Rumors about “inappropriate pressure being brought to bear”?
What pressure? Who makes this crap up?
I personally know one of the merchants interviewed by the E/R and he is still laughing at the pollsters and their line of questions, “Were you pressured into stating you support the Marina Project.”
He laughed at them and said “no”.
To which they replied, “Are you sure?”
At this point he wanted to reach across the counter and throw them out of his business.
If this isn’t a “push poll”, then someone please explain to me what is a push poll?
Judith Little of HSU (another unbiased bastion of higher education) you should be ashamed of yourself.
Bottom line -- if the citizens of Eureka (not Arcata, Trinidad, South Humboldt, etc.) do not want the Marina Center project, then it will fail over time and the Arkley’s will lose millions.
2:30 pm:
People are told to endorse a candidate, support a candidate, take the sign, give money, etc. all of these actions occur outside the voting booth.
I know the guy you're referring to. Yes, he thought it was funny, because he supports and will profit from association with the Arkleys.
What about those of us who don't? WE don't think it's funny.
3:04
After it fails, will we be able to fix the mess that the Arkleys made worse? Will we be able to go back and completely clean up the property?
Answer: No. And at that point, bringing some of our tax dollars back into the community to clean it will probably no longer be an option.
Thanks, but no thanks.
Two million bucks is peanuts. There are dozens of developers who would compete for that property at that price. Watch how fast it gets sold if Arkley's Crowd doesn't win the election, especially if community planning and zoning precedes the sale. Hey - competition - that used to be what Republicans did best.
2:30 wrote: "I don't know how common this is, but I can't believe that they would make these stories up if they weren't true.".
That sounds good, but from what I've seen on this blog, I think there'd be more than enough people to suggest something that wasn't true.
3:04 asks, "I personally know one of the merchants interviewed by the E/R and he is still laughing at the pollsters and their line of questions,".
A typo there, perhaps? It was the Times- Standard that did the poll.
3:12 wrote,"People are told to endorse a candidate, support a candidate, take the sign, give money, etc. all of these actions occur outside the voting booth.".
People are TOLD to endorse, support or take a sign? I guess. Assuming you don't have enough mind of your own to make your own decision.
OHHH Yeah, people are going to stand in LINE to scarf up a piece of property that they'll get nothing but grief for IF they EVER DARE to propose DOING SOMETHING. Think of ALLLLLLL the people who were jumping up and down at the prospect, barking and snarling and howling in a frenzy to get to DEAL with Humboldt County. It's a new reality show EXTREME investing! The toughest MOST DANGEROUS, MOST COSTLY and most INFURIATING EXPERIENCE you'll ever love.
You guys are NUTS. You're dreaming, no, make that HALLUCINATING.
Fred - T-S did the door-to-door poll.
E/R reported the story first.
I seriously doubt any developers would be lining up for the Balloon Track property, especially if they have to pay for clean up with their private funds versus tax dollars.
That's the reason the City of Eureka declined the Arkley's offer to purchase the property and donate to the City in the first place.
The City of Eureka didn't want to pay for the clean up cost.
I don't know of any candidates bringing their goons around forcing me to support any candidate. The signs on my lawn are my free expression of who I'm voting for-and I also don't care if a local company holds my lease-what's the problem?
If you are saying that Rob bought the Works building-great, maybe he can afford to retrofit it!
I can't but 2:30's Arkley examples. If the events he describe were true, he would state the names of the people involved. He described enough of the alledged incidents that if Arkley were as evil as the poster claims, he would quickly know which two people the poster described and take action. In other words, the anonymous poster just doomed their fate. But of course not. We weren't told names because it didn't happen. Hell, a story about anonymous people told by an anonymous person. Gimme a break.
>If the events he describe were true, he would state the names of the people involved. He described enough of the alledged incidents that if Arkley were as evil as the poster claims, he would quickly know which two people the poster described and take action.
Maybe there are more than two names to choose from. (?)
6:21 Maybe you should write for TV-this so Mystery Theatre. I prefer reality shows!
Rob Arkley has become such a mythical figure, just about anything submitted to the blogs about him is going to be believed by someone out there.
Maybe Mattel can put out some Rob Arkley action figures to sell at Home Depot too. They would of course have to be oufitted with the 'A Team' Marina Center sweatshirts.
I love it when a plan comes together.
Im new to this. Could somebody explain why developing the balloon tract is such a bad idea? Why would Piersons have to go out of business? Just in general, why would you not want that thing developed? forget about the pollution please.
8:22 You crack me up!
I pity the fool....
"Aw, Hannibal, is this one of your plans supposed to go down 1, 2, 3? You always forget 4, 5, and 6."
-BA ["There Goes The Neighborhood"]
From the "most accurate A-Team Quotes
(http://www.geocities.com/trueonyx/)
I look to geocities.com for all my academic research. There is no higher source.
No-You are wrong, its Wikipedia!!
Those are both good sources but for what's REALLY going on, check out my blog.
Isn't it getting cold in Montana nick? Oh that's right NE-Nebraska! Its been so long since you said anything intelligent I won't waste my computer minutes...
It's 65 degrees right now and yesterday it got up to 80 degrees, check it on google.
Well its freezing-A cold here!
well then go exercise, it'll warm you up.
It is so bizarre to me that people in here cannot fathom how Arkley could influence business owners decisions. He is very powerfull, he owns TONS of Eureka property. He can easily blackball anyone who crosses him or invest money in something that would hurt their business like a competitor, buying your building and raising your rent, speaking out about about a project you are working on etc. Where Arkley goes, his minions follow. I am positively amazed at some of the shortsightedness of you bloggers. Maybe your business experience is limited, maybe if you own a business you head is too far up Arkleys ass to see the light, maybe if you took some time to talk to a few business owners perspective you would see how incredibly limited they are in speaking their mind. Its all about the bottom line babe, they know that and Arkley knows that. If you piss off people, then all the sudden rumors come up and bad word of mouth circulates like wild fire, then all the sudden less people come in to your business. This doesn't have jack to do with your service, your qualifications, your products — and all the sudden you are hurting. A lot of small businesses make just enough to eek out a living, take some away and you are talking at best changing your lifestyle and at worst bankruptcy.
Before you write back calling me a liar and making me out to be some inexperienced hack, consider for a moment that maybe I understand the dynamic
You're just freakin' nuts 10:08.
Well, 12:31, so long as we are both providing plausible arguments ... But thank you for your well thought out consideration of my argument
oh believe me it is well thought out, you are freakin' nuts.
3:38 probably works or with for Arkley or Kramer, or stands to profit from their projects
Boo-Ya!
I think we'd all profit from Arkley strengthening Eureka's economy.
You're just freakin' nuts
So let's start naming people/businesses who have crossed Arkley, and how he has screwed them over. The obvious one on the boards now is Bill Pierson, and the Home Depot as part of the Marina Center proposal.
Yeah, look at all the people who are renting in the Vance. Such horrible conditions.
3:38 Must be working for or with Arkley Kramer...well yeah somebody must have been at work cause nobody posted at 3:38...
You do realize, don't you, that most of the Vance renters work in one way or another for Arkley and/or Kramer.
The rest, like Joan Davies have personal relationships with them.
Mr Arkley- My vote is up for sale!
Please invite me to one of your "mixers" and I'll gladly vote for your set of candidates!
7:52 What is your actual problem with people having jobs and contributing to the local economy?
Who cares if the Arkleys and Kramer want to buy all the old buildings in the city and fix them up for rent for themselves who cares? The buildings so far are full of happy, employed, tax paying members of the community who shop at all the cool places you do.
Shaddup(!) why don't you get a job too?
Rusty Bacon is Rob and Cheri Arkleys nephew. If you want insight into the Arkleys then investigate what happened between them and him. Its coldhearted.
Mwhuhuhuhu.....
Like shootin' fish inna barrel.
Chaos=$$$$$$
What happened to Rusty Bacon, I want to know!
yeah, we all liked the vance better as a vacant empty hulk of decaying derelict old building, even the defiant shade of fuchsia fading and decrepit. It really MADE Old Town.
"So let's start naming people/businesses who have crossed Arkley, and how he has screwed them over. The obvious one on the boards now is Bill Pierson, and the Home Depot as part of the Marina Center proposal."
Anyone??
10:43 -
Nothing wrong with them moving out of other buildings and into their own, just saying they aren't creating any new businesses. Lately I just see businesses closing in Eureka.
I already have a job, thanks.
Love the Vance, by the way. Will it still have any tenants after they open the Marina Center??
No , Bass and Lavallee are wanting to turn it into a homeless shelter with the governmental grant money they are getting .
Droz (space - comma) , hate to break this to you but Bass is not part of the LaVallee regime.
I didn't know LaVallee even had a regime.
Please Mr. Arkley (and any other developers) -- don’t fix up our decrepit falling down buildings.
It’s what gives Eureka our unique quality of life (poverty).
Please don’t build anymore architecturally distinctive, esthetic pleasing developments.
We want your charity money but we don’t want you.
Consensus?
Lets do some simple score keeping at recent events:
CREG's "Imagine the Possibilities"
Attendence +/- 350 people (Less pro Marina Center people in audience est @ 10%)
TOTAL 315 Pro CREG supporters
Marina Center "Thank you supporters party"
Attendance +/- 1400 people (Less estimated 1% pro CREG moles, 3% free food people, 5% free beer/wine people)(Add back estimated 10% of supporters who stayed home due to rainy weather)
TOTAL - 1400 Pro Marina Center people
Consensus Says that Marina Center Wins with a 4.4 to 1 ratio over CREG....Chris Crawford's Humboldt Business Council poll seems a little light....CREG'S Larry Evans and Larry Glass still lives in denial....
Dear Bass , Thanks for your comment but , what have you and Lavallee done for , Eureka ? .......and yes , your part of the regime along with , Wolford , Neely , Smith and all the others who want nothing more than to screw up our City with more white trash shelters . NICE TRY ANYWAYS !
Now you know............Lavallee does have a regime and it's called the RCAA .
Nice try , Bass !
CREG's "Imagine the Possibilities"
Attendence +/- 350 inteligent people.
Marina Center "Thank you supporters party"
Attendance +/- 1400 ass-kissers.
What are you?
The Arkleys are corrupt and so is their tool Virginia Bass. Any free plane rides lately, Mrs. Mayor?
I agree. Bass is a joke, and those who voted for her are completely uniformed.
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