Humboldt Bay Bar Pilots Hired
I saw mention of this a day or so ago but didn't pay much attention to it until I stumbled on to it in the latest Arcata Eye: Looks like the Humboldt Bay Rec and Conservation District hired a couple bar pilots to help guide ships into Humboldt Bay.
I'd always wondered if they still had those guys that go out to incoming ships and guide them into the bay. I guess they used to be used quite a bit but, with shipping in the bay having been on the decline, the pilots don't have enough work to be paid privately as they once were so now we're subsidizing them to the tune of $180,000 each . All that for guiding maybe two ships a month.
I suppose you have to have bar pilots. Shipping in Humboldt Bay might come to a standstill without them. It almost seems like the Harbor District is doing what it has to to keep things going. Still, this is being done in the hope that shipping will pick up some day and thus be worth the expense and perhaps pay for itself.
Let's hope so, but I can't help but wonder if the plans for shipping increases in Humboldt Bay might just be another pipe dream and the Harbor District might end up being akin to the North Coast Railroad Authority: A bottomless pit for taxpayer dollars that's essentially just a paper organization?
posted by Fred Mangels @ 9:22 AM
56 comments
56 Comments:
$180k and other than one or two ships they will be doing mantenance work. Give me a break. This is like the Railroad buying 30 rail cars to sit around and rust waiting for the RR to return.
don't much about this subject but ... how many people are qualified for this work ? And how much would a mistake, mishap, or disaster with one of these ships cost ? How much of the $180K actually goes to the pilots?
I was under the impression the 180k was the salary, but I could be wrong.
I suppose it could end up a real mess if some ship without a pilot ran their ship hopelessly aground in the middle of the bay.
Another U.S.S. Milwaukee, if you will.
As I understand it the two pilots hired are the only two qualified. A ship will not come in without one of them on board. The salary per pilot is $140,000 and benefits are about another $50,000.
Yeah but the could bring em up from Oakland when they need them for less. Worked so far. Sounds fishy.
I think that's just the way government works. Besides, I would think they would need a pilot ultimately familiar with Humboldt Bay, which some temporary fill- in from Oakland probably wouldn't be.
I'm thinking also this is one of those things where they're "waiting for the ship to come in", pardon the pun. The Harbor District, along with a host of others, are waiting for shipping to open up again up here.
As I alluded to before, I can't help but wonder if this is more akin to waiting for the railroad to get up and running again- another pipe dream.
It may have worked that way for stevedores but I don't think it ever worked that way for pilots.
Correction: I meant to say a pilot probably needs to be "intimately" familiar with the bay, not ultimately.
"I can't help but wonder if this is more akin to waiting for the railroad to get up and running again"
Both agencies believe that one is not successful without the other.
"joined at the hip" as it has been described.
What the hell. Let's put it on the ballot. I'm sure that Home Depot cannot be far behind an increase in harbor traffic. The "progressives" (Luddites) will find a way to kill it.
I'm not sure what you mean. Pogo please help me connect the dots on this.
'People' should study this issue before commenting-you sound like idiots.
So please enlighten us.
10:58
Please give us the benefit of your study and let us hear your opinion on if hiring the bar pilots was something the Harbor District should have done.
why? Can't you Google?
http://maps.hostgis.com/harbor/about/pilotage.htm
Sorry, I do have spell check-
12:38 Since you asked my opinion, yes I believe that was a wise choice. We have ships coming into the harbor perhaps only once or twice a month regularly. However, if there was a ship in distress that had to enter Humboldt Bay and we were to have to call the Port of Oakland say, when Hwy101 is experiencing a closure don't you think it would be hazardous playing Russian Roulette with the environment ie. oil/fuel spills not to mention other contaminants which we have a heard a little about already.
Humboldt Bay is already isolated and treacherous to enter and leave at certain times of the year-add to that poor planning and lack of readiness...it equals stupidity.
Since we are still on my opinion, yes the Harbor District was elected to study the issue and make the best decisions for the entire community and yes I think they did a very good job of protecting the people, environment and interests of the entire community.
Yep. As per usual we make up the facts when we don't have them. At least its something to do.
12:52
So why should the public directly subsidize, by the hiring of the bar pilots, what is essentially private commerce? Should the Harbor District now hire the tug boat drivers if they claim that they can’t make a competitive living either?
"However, if there was a ship in distress that had to enter Humboldt Bay and we were to have to call the Port of Oakland say, when Hwy101 is experiencing a closure don't you think it would be hazardous playing Russian Roulette with the environment"
If a ship was in distress and someone was to come from Oakland, or somewhere else don’t you think they would fly?
Intimate knowledge of this bay and the experience of our bar pilots is very important to the safety of ships and the public who live around the bay.
We elect the Harbor Commissioners to wade through all the facts because the rest of us do not have the time, but more importantly, we are not all equipped to be able to read and understand the complexities of all the issues. Being that this Harbor Commission is made up of a broad spectrum of citizens at this time-it is unique that this was a unanamous decision.
Kaitlin being the new member of the Harbor Commission wanted the Board to be more accesible and took steps immediately to make it so. A phone call to the Harbor Commissioners either as a group or individually will most likely answer any questions you may still have on the issue of bar pilots.
In my personal experience, when I've had a question and called the council, board of Supervisors, a city,county or a state dept with a question-it has been answered quickly and efficiently and sometimes I have been referred to another agency if needed.
Its easy to armchair quarterback all the individual decisions reported in the paper-its harder to study issues in their entirety. Since this was a Commission decision, the full text of their decision may be available online or provided to you to look at in the Harbor District Office for free and if you ask for copies there would be a copying fee which is quite reasonable considering they do not charge for the time it takes to look things up and run the copier for you.
Katlin is on the Humboldt Bay Municipal Water District… not the Harbor District which are two different things.
4:36 wrote, "If a ship was in distress and someone was to come from Oakland, or somewhere else don’t you think they would fly?".
I'm not sure it would matter how they got here. What is needed is someone intimately familiar with bar conditions in Humboldt Bay- not just general conditions, but up to the minute conditions, along with experience. Someone just drug up here from Oakland might not have a clue as to what bar conditions are up here.
If the Captain of the ship in question had been in Humboldt Bay before, he might well know more about conditions within the bay than some temporary help from the Bay Area.
I have no idea how difficult our bay is compared to others. I did hear from one sailor on a navy ship that came in here years ago that this bay is real "tight". He was the one who actually steered the ship in here (what's the designation for the guy on a ship behind the steering wheel?).
Whether subsidizing the bar pilots is the only workable option, I have no idea. I'm just curious about the issue.
Kaitlin on the HBHRCD? No. Nice "facts."
It's a question the voters have to answer, that's certain.
The question is: Do you want harbor traffic and the associated income from it, or do you not?
If you do, then harbor pilots are needed. You don't want to leave the navigating of your narrow and ever changing waterway left up to private individuals, because that'll lead you to a shipwreck in the harbor.
If you don't, then by all means, don't hire the pilots and the big boats won't com in. There are revenue models you can pursue if you don't want the shipping traffic. Developing them may cost far more than hiring and keeping pilots though.
It's not necessarily an oil spill you need to worry about, a containership run aground will ruin your day too.
The ships that do come in do pay a fee for using the harbor pilots, it's built into their dock fees. In many communities it's based on tonnage, in others, it's based on time spent in harbor, in others, it's a flat rate.
So the Harbor Authority hires the pilots to have local control (and local knowledge) and the users pay the harbor authority.
I hope you can get a good PR campaign going to educate the voters, I'd hate to see any community cut off their nose to spite their face or otherwise make decisions based on ignorance.
Of course if you don't want the traffic and income from shipping, then by all means, don't hire the pilots.
It's a choice between two economic models for your community. There is not necessarily a right or wrong answer. BUT. . . if you're gonna have the shipping, you gotta have the pilots, and believe me, YOU DO want the pilots to be local to your waterway and you DO want them under local control.
No one wants a ship aground, and no one wants a ship coming through too fast and swamping your smaller fishing and pleasure boats and damaging smaller docks.
--Jason
FTR - I'm from Alabama and don't have a dog in your fight, just thought I could offer some objective perspective for you.
Wow, Jason you really nailed the big question. (sometimes it takes an outsider) With shipping on the decline (we have no containers at all), no population within 300 miles to take product to when it gets here and no rail or road reliable enough to get it there, there are many in the community that are questioning the long term sustainability of the big ship paradigm for Humboldt Bay. Some are confident the day will come when it all turns around, others are not so sure.
It’s a good thing we have a pulp mill or we would have no deep draft ships at all. A real head scratcher.
Kaitlin being the new member of the Harbor Commission wanted the Board to be more accesible and took steps immediately to make it so. A phone call to the Harbor Commissioners either as a group or individually will most likely answer any questions you may still have on the issue of bar pilots.
Soounds like some more of that Michael Smith quality research, the same kind faux news did when they called congressman foley a democrat. Eugene must be lucky not to have him running their river port.
Ill tell you what Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap did do on the Water Board and in fact was her only original idea implemented so far. She proposed the motion censor water sprinklers on every night at J and 7 building to hose down the homeless. Theres some of that Green Party social justice ethic for ya.
Maybe the high pay is in partly due to the hazards of having to transfer from the pilot's boat onto the incoming ship. On a good day it's treacherous.
Read those many books on our bay's history and you will appreciate how dangerous that channel really is...
Well there is a "living wage" job. $15k a month to maybe risk your life on the bar once or twice. Wonder how much the Coast Guard gets payed?
The high pay is pretty much industry standard.
The point here is that our bar pilots are very aware of the shifting conditions on Humboldt Bay. The silt that is hauled out of the bay doesn't just show up the week before Army Corps of Engineers tows it away.
Ships in distress have entered Humboldt Bay more than one or twice a year-and it would be wise to consider he liabilty issues of not having personnel available at a moments notice.
Why not contact the Harbor Commission to look at the questions brought up in Fred's blog and definitvely answer them with facts. Dave Hull is quite reasonable when you have a problem needing an answer...
Or would you rather trade barbs to pass the time?
"Or would you rather trade barbs to pass the time?"
Hey its a blog.
"Or would you rather trade barbs to pass the time?"
Ok, this is the most benign blog discussion going these days. Why so sensitive?
As to your liability point, I don't think the Harbor District was liable for having "personnel available" until they actually hired them.
"Or would you rather trade barbs to pass the time?"
Better to say somethiing even if its wrong then??
Ok, this is the most benign blog discussion going these days. Why so sensitive?
The topic may be benign but the issue is really that anyone and everyone has an opinion at the drop of a hat if its in the paper-and NO ONE seems to care to ask 'someone' for further information. Can't Hank Sims do an in depth investigative report-can't the Times Standard ever do a followup story-what's going on here behind the Redwood Curtain that lack of information is ho-hum everyday stuff?
As to your liability point, I don't think the Harbor District was liable for having "personnel available" until they actually hired them.
The liability issue doesn't have to be one of semantics and can it hold up in court-there's a responsibility to people living around the bay whether they are Republicans, Democrats, or purple with polka dots and don't vote.
Lives can be at stake if/when there is a shipwreck next to our harbor.
Its the whole "We wanna be a mini-Oakland concept". But the port and rail were joined at birth and still are today. Like it or not these folks (Harbor District and NCRA) are working feverishly to make it happen. Good for the economy? Perhaps. Lot's of jobs? Construction will provide a lot. But operation is mechanized and takes few.
But the port needs the rail to draw real investors (the Chinese). Will the rails happen soon? Unlikely. Despite the optimism they haven't begun to take into account the obstacles.
But you can not deny the Humboldt Bay Harbor and Recreation District isn't trying. They along with the NCRA have spent nearly $100k in studies to find the right shipping scenario. All of which have said shipping through Humboldt Bay is a losing proposition. But now they got another $200k from the Headwaters Fund to work on the Redwood Dock. Probably a good use of HW funds if there was even a 50/50 chance of paying off. That on top of $19 million in tax payer dollars to deepen the port some 6 or so years ago. That got them 1 - 2 ships a moth (less than before) and the need to hire the bar pilots.
wow two ships a moth, that sounds like a lot.
your math is almost as good as your point.
I think the cost of the study you are referring to was $300K. You can view it at
http://www.humboldtbay.org/about/documents.htm.
I recommend all that are interested in this topic to read the "Executive Summary". It is very enlightening.
"Lives can be at stake if/when there is a shipwreck next to our harbor."
I think you are under the impression that big ships will come in without a bar pilot. As far as I know that will not happen. No pilot, no ship. It would be as if we did not exist. And so, there is less risk of an accident without the bar pilots. No pilot, no ship. No ship, no accident.
We need them, how else are all the ships full of containers come in for the Home Depo?
Any one wonder why Mary Beth got a new hot tub and cement for a foundation from Ace, with Home Depo coming in?
9:44 what would you propose for a large ship in distress that has lost power outside the jetties waiting for a guide?
Do you expect fishing boats or the Coast Guard to tow them in? And what would you propose if the CG was out on maneuvers?
Lets make this worst case scenario too-winter, high tide, 25-30 ft swells. The bar pilots stay in port and do not leave the bay unattended.
Lost power=unable to turn, power out to sea, get away from the jetty. The ocean current is not their friend.
So the Bar Pilots work with folks other than large commercial ships?
5:29 that's 25-30 foot seas right?
yes, sorry I was thinking about the tides from today when I checked the blog. I have a hard time typing on a blackberry.
5:29 PM
So your point is that we the tax payers should hire two bar pilots for a total of almost $400,000 a year on the off chance that there may someday be a large vessel in distress? I suppose we should now spend another 15 million to dredge to 50' and reconfigure the entrance so that we can take even bigger ships in distress. I mean how can we just let the oil tankers and mega containership stay out there in distress!
BTW bar pilots are not emergency personnel anyway. Yes, it would be the Coast Guard that would deal with such an emergency.
Dear Fred,
I was asked by a constituent to contact you regarding the misinformation about the Harbor District hiring the bar pilots as employees. I am currently the President of the Board of Commissioners for the Humboldt Bay Harbor, Recreation and Conservation District. The article that was mentioned in your blog was from the Arcata Eye, and for your own information, there was not a reporter present at our meeting when the board voted unanimously to go in this different direction and hire our own bar pilots. Simply, the move was made so we can set the rates received for this unique and essential service. Bar pilots are licensed in the ports they operate from and have to be trained for their unique geographical area. We are required to maintain two bar pilots at all times. And yes, the HBHRCD will have to subsidize this endeavor for a couple of years, but not nearly the dollar amounts posted by some of your bloggers. On tonight's Harbor District Agenda will be the action item to set the pilot rates we will receive from the shippers for providing this critical service. The HBHRCD will be the caretaker and recipient of said fees. I have a copy of the actual item that was passed by the board hiring the bar pilots if you are interested.
Personally, for me, if the bar pilots were to leave the area and ships would not be allowed to enter Humboldt Bay without them, then very likely, Humboldt Bay would lose federal funding for the Army Corps of Engineers to annually maintain the entrance and deep channels. This would prove disastrous for the remaining commercial boats like commercial fishermen as well as any recreation boats including sport fishermen attempting to transit an already dangerous bar entrance. Humboldt Bay bar entrance is second only to Columbia River in terms of deaths and hazardous conditions on the west coast. Maintaining the entrance and channel is critical in my mind for many reasons, hence the move to retain the bar pilots.
I hope you will take me up on my offer to receive the actual agenda item the board approved outlining the costs and benefits of this action. Also, we researched this item for a long time before making this move and were in contact with the Port of Gray's Harbor, WA whose port is almost identical in situation with being a mostly timber product sport and seeing much decline over the years. They hired their bar pilots 5 years ago and cost them more than they brought in for the first 3 years, but the last two years actually profited a couple hundred thousand dollars. The only other port to have their own bar pilots is the Port of LA.
Feel free to contact me is you have any questions.
Sincerely,
Ronnie Pellegrini
President, Board of Commissioners
Humboldt Bay Harbor, Recreation and Conservation District
PO Box 1030
Eureka, CA 95502
707-443-0801
Not exactly Port of Oakland 6:08PM
I notice people are upset at the cost of the bar pilots, so could Ronnie Pellegrini give us a number? If you think that that number is bad, just remember what we pay the admins at College of the Redwoods to do their jobs. 120k a year, plus full bennies, the best medical for them, plus we pay them to move and all kinds of other "perks" from paid trips to Vegas, to wine tasting. Also, rumor has it, they even bring their trash from home and dump it at the school.
anon.r.mous,
What's the matter, nobody responding to your rants about CR on your own site so you have to bring it to Fred's Blog during a discussion concerning the harbor commission?
That's like going to the housing commission to discuss the Cherie Moore issue.
What is your intent?
You sound like a disgruntled faculty member fueding with the CR trustees and administration and trying to stir up some sort of imagined issues to get the president fired.
Yes, CR has issues. Do you really think by spreading fecal matter through these blogs that you are going to achieve some sort of Golden Blog Scoop Award or are you really just taking out your own aggressions at CR publically?
Anon.R asks, "notice people are upset at the cost of the bar pilots, so could Ronnie Pellegrini give us a number?".
Here is Ronnie's response to your question:
"Of course, and indeed I acknowledge the bar pilots nationwide are very well paid for their specialized knowledge and expertise. Having said that, per the Humboldt Bay bar pilot employee contract and the accompanying agenda report, each bar pilot is an at will employee of the board of commissioners, and will receive $140,004 per year each commencing October 16, 2006. At tonight's board of commissioner's meeting, the board will consider setting the pilotage fees to be paid by each ship transiting Humboldt Bay, and if adopted, the fees will commence October 20, 2006. The additional expenses and payroll burden are estimated at $56,773 for each bar pilot. Having said that, the present pilotage fees average $10,112 per ship. Using the present figures, the annual income is estimated, with present shipping statistics taken into consideration, would be about $ 252, 800 per year. The expense for hiring the two bar pilots would be $393,546 with income of $252,800, leaving a deficit of $140, 746. The alternative is unacceptable for the safety of our boating community and preservation of our environment. Please be sure, we will re-evaluate this situation continually and made the appropriate decisions. I hope this answers some of your questions about this complicated and important issue."
Ronnie
Thanks for the fast reply Ronnie. It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of problem though. If the bay doesn't get worked over by the Army, it will fill and and then we have a nice huge mud-flat. Humboldt County would lose more jobs, from the pulp mill, to fishing, and even the silly water taxi and boat tours.
Sit down, crunch the numbers of how many people are tied to the bay and you'll find $140k isn't that much to come up with. The only plus I could see with the bay "filling in" would be that people wouldn't be able to call the Ballon Tract "waterfront property" anymore.
You sound like a disgruntled faculty member fueding with the CR trustees and administration and trying to stir up some sort of imagined issues to get the president fired.
President quit, and they haven't been able to fill the spot in case you are wondering. I'm glad that you don't care are the CR issues, and if you have a problem you can post about it on my blog, or email me, which you'll do nether.
Anon.R.mous said...
Ever wonder why no one posts on your website?
Wow, so much discussion...
I was not at the meeting; I did, however, acquire a DVD of the proceedings the next day. I also interviewed Third District Commissioner Mike Wilson two days after the meeting. He spoke to me via cell phone from L.A. I have $180,000 in my notes, but apparently I misheard the amount, as Mike did confirm the salary (sans benefits) is $140,000. My mistake, and one I'm sorry I didn't catch (or hear about) sooner.
Other than that, the story's solid. The district's in a bind: if they lose the bar pilots (who could make much more money somewhere else), a future as a working port is no longer viable. So, once again, the district must invest a substantial amount of money in the hopes that the bay's port potential pays off. Having a working railroad is the other part of the equation and may be the make-or-break factor. Depending on who one talks to, the railroad-port future is either Humboldt Bay's best hope or biggest waste of time. Really interesting.
jennifer writes, "if they lose the bar pilots (who could make much more money somewhere else".
The only thing about that is I find it hard to believe a bar pilot could just up and leave and get a job in some other port. Their value is having an intimate knowledge of the port they work out of. They couldn't just move to another port and start right up as it would take them some time to get familiar with the idiosyncracies of the port they've just moved to.
Seems to me it would be just as hard for them to go somewhere else and become an instant bar pilot as it would make sense for us to hire a temporary pilot from out of the area, as has been suggested.
One other thing (in closing, since by tomorrow this subject may be off the main page as it's moving further toward the bottom). One thing I find curious is the need to subsidize the pilots since they get paid so much per vessel.
If they even got $5000 per docking one ship, that's a pretty good wages. I could easily live for months on that kind of money. Since the Harbor District charges ships over $10,000 per docking, assuming the pilot gets a lot of that, I hardly see why they need to be guaranteed a salary. Seems to me they could live well enough on what little they do.
I agree the pilots are needed. I just find the need for subsidy odd in light of how much they make even for piloting one ship into the bay.
It is not whether they are needed now for the current level of shipping. They are needed now as a selling point for all the various players in the port/rail dream. Just as rebuilding the Redwood Dock and doing maintenance on the RR it is all part of picture being painted to lure invenstors, state budget decisions and the Port of Oakland. You gotta look the part if you want to play.
The Times Standard is trying to destroy me . They are tied into the RCAA . YOU MUST BELIEVE ME . The Mayor and Council are paid less then minimum wage intentionally so they can manipulate them as a group tied to the RCAA . THEY WANT TO DOMINATE Eureka . They are trying everything to prevent me from winning . They made stuff up about me Wed . night and told the E.P.D. how i did this or that. They are trying to get rid of me .
I want the people to run this City but , they want control over it .
Me too.
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