Missed Another One
This time I missed the Eureka City Council candidate debates. Oh, well. Doesn't sound like anything was said that I wasn't expecting. The exception being Tish Wilburn coming off as a strong libertarian, which surprised me if only because, from what she'd told me, she was running on a sort of law and order platform.
So, I'll make a call on the winners in this candidate forum just on what I read in the papers:
Sounds like the winners, in no particular order, were: Leonard, Wolford, Jones and Wilburn. Losers: Glass, Abrams and Kuhnel.
No surprises there, since that comes from me, huh? As I've said before, I guess I'm fairly predictable myself.
posted by Fred Mangels @ 9:02 AM
94 comments
94 Comments:
Yes, Fred. Predictable and wrong.
very wrong you needf to get the tape from keet because u dont know what your talking about
What I found interesting was Ron K. distancing himself from the Local Solutions/CREG group think by saying the public process on the Balloon Tract was basically intact - EIR, Planning Comission, Council, Coastal Comission. Also, both Larry and Nan seemed really cranky, I don't think either one smiled into the camera once.
Anon - 9:48 "very wrong you needf to get the tape from keet because u dont know what your talking about"
Unless you failed english class or are just plain stupid, please wake up and have some coffee before you post.
Fred,I watched it and its impossible to truly determine winners and losers.The debate format simply doesn't allow for it.One question gets asked,then all 7 candidates respond to it.In nearly all instances,the 6th and 7th candidate almost just reinterated what everyone said before them.There was a lot of agreeing going on.Take the first question asked,it was something along the lines of"what is your vision of waterfront development"?A broad question for a candidate to respond to in one minute.There were a few questions asked which really didn't pertain to council duties.It's not set up to allow candidates to truly differentiate themselves amongst one another.And my guess is that some viewers if they hadn't already known,would have no idea of whom is running against whom.Plus,if you've ever been in that room you know its not a comfortable place,its small,and gets very warm as Tish Wilburn pointed out in her closing statement.And for candidates who are used to wearing glasses,it's a burden because the lighting hurts the eyes,so Mary Beth and Larry both didn't wear theirs.The lighting is hard on the eyes as was apparent when Ron Kuhnel was making his opening statement and kept blinking.I'm certainly not knocking the League for putting it on,it just needs to formatted differently.Gotta run,I'll post further later.
I watched the debates. Glass came off pretty good. Mary Beth looked very professional though and actually looked better on TV than her normal appearance. Tish was too angry on every question. Kuhnel is very smart but was confusing in the directions he was going. Leonard was stronger and sane sounding. Abrams was not prepared and was all over the place and the polka dots did not help. Jones came off as a moderate. Kind of a surprise. The moderator was off task, but it came together. Democrat here. Just my observation.
again 951 losing the dabate so you have to attack with stupid anticks
Glass looked stoned, Tish Wilburn was surprisingly direct, I liked her, Kuhnel wasn't what I expected, I expected him to be stronger, Wolford was very articulate, also a surprise, Abrams, grumpy, and dogmatic... doesn't matter, I don't live in Eureka, but it was interesting.
IMHO
Hadn't seen or known of Abrams B4 debate and it put me off that she was unprepared and flustered-looking like deer in the headlights most of the time.
Kuhnel also unknown until debate, came off as knowledgeable and the best of the challengers on the learning curve scale.
I liked Tish very much but she was no match for Wolford who came across as very smart, professional, right on.
Jeff made a good impression and left out his usual wordiness-too bad there is no minute time limit for council members statements while in chambers. He is much better when he gets to the point quickly.
Mike was so-so but he has the better campaign signs.
Glass was ok but all the talk about changing everything all the time can cause upset. His learning curve is the long hard road and not much can be accomplished in that environment.
Anon - 9:55
"again 951 losing the dabate so you have to attack with stupid anticks"
Would you please learn to use spell check you moron.
I expected to like some of the challengers, but ended up happy with who we have. Who'd a thunk it?
10:21 is that you Dick ? I know yor're back.
10:37, I agree. The incumbants all seemed to have a good grasp of what they are doing. The challengers were making the rally call of "Let's change things!", but, since none of them have experience with city government, I don't know if they would be able to change anything.
Kuhnel has experience as a planning commisioner and it would translate well to council-but as you said 10:37 the incumbants seem to have a good grasp!
I'm generally left-leaning, but trying to simply judge performance and command of the issues, and not whether or not I agreed with them, I would put them in this order:
Kuhnel: Far ahead of the others in terms of professionalism, knowledge, and his understanding of process and decision-making.
Leonard: Less weasely than he often comes across. He had some good things to say that showed some openness to new ideas, but not on any issues where it really counts.
Wolford: Looked 10 years younger on TV, and managed to say absolutley nothing of any substance, nor anything that would offend anyone. This is the baseline for 'safe and ineffective' representation.
Glass: Maintained his calm, but the haircut and sports coat looked like a costume on him. After Kuhnel, Glass had the most direct and straight-forward answers, but where Kuhnel was process-driven, Glass was all ideology.
Jones: Similarly vapid and non-substantive responses, like Wolford, but too many references to his youth (hall-monitor, paper route...) Hey, Mike, we're not looking for a 12 year-old kid, here.
Abrams: Seemed uncomfortable, and spoke in generalities. Did not show a true command of any one issue.
Wilburn: The most fun, and the most straight-forward, but we're not electing a TV side-kick here.
why would a haircut be like a costume for larry...
Wilburn is crazy
Jones, Leonard and Wolford are drones
2:29 the haircut is a costume for Larry in the same way his non haircut was a costume.
And you can't take the wanna be hippie out of Larry even WITH his glasses on.
Who'd a thunk it?
You are right. We have a pretty good city council and they are on the right track. Thought I might like some of the challengers and was surprised not to feel comfortable with any even tho' Tish was entertaining!
Its hard for them to get anything done alone. They need people driving the boat, bringing issues to their agenda asking and asking again for action.
Kuhnel made a good showing and seems to know a bit about how govt works.
Glass doesn't have a clue and it would take at least 4 years to teach him.
I agree with the deer in the headlights comment from a previous poster Nan isn't going to get many votes with that confused demeanor.
I love that article in the TS today about Arkley quitting the board... She Rob made her do it. Common knowledge
Did anyone notice that Larry needed his roots done? Didn't he used to have more gray and not be quite so blond?
The (anonymous) theatre of the absurd.
Fred,you're wrong.Leonard is a classic bullshitter in any environment,this debate format is set up to aid the bullshitters,who don't have to pinpoint any of their statements.Mike Jones,same thing.His vision of the waterfront led him to saying something about fishing in the bay when he was a kid and bringing the fish home to his mon to cook.AAUUHHH so homely.The incumbants answered all questions as if they were drowning in the polls,and all of the sudden they all want to end the mail in complaints coming in to the police department.Funny,I attend most council meetings and have never heard a peep from any of those 3 about that.They'll say anything to get reelected.Of course Larry was right on on all environmental issues.Nan was on on all social and worker related issues.Kuhnel was on on the historic preservation stuff.But the drabness of the whole thing aids the incumbants.they need to hold separate debates for each race.Overall advantage,the opposite of Fred,the challengers didn't screw up enough to alter any preconceptions of the lefty candidates.Those who know Nan thought she would appear uncomfortable.Larry is much better without time constraints.Tish Wilburn is made for TV,she had a lot of poise.Reiterate-advantage left,didn't screw up.
larry looked stoned, and didn't have a clue. wilburn was funny, thoughtful, direct and smart, my favorite by far, kuhnel wasn't all he had been billed to be, wolford was far better than expected, and jones and leonard didn't lose any points, no advantage left. add the baggage they carry and it is advantage incumbents.
Well the incumbants are clearly Neely supporters,in the closet or not.All of them during their closing statements basically said the only effective people to run a city government are career politicians.Jones wants to finish government sponsored projects he's already started.Mary Beth and Leonard think that spiralling meth and crime problems,which lead to government aid, heed the city in the right direction so you should vote for them.And to think that most of their supporters are bagging Bonnie Neely for doing everything she can to be a career politician.
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there's a difference between a 1 term seeking a second term politician and a 20 year politician though, no question there. why are the lefties supporting neely who stands for everythign they are against?
Some leftists aren't stupid enough to drop lock-step behind Neely. At least Flemming is willing to consider new ideas, Neely's long past such open-mindedness. I say toss Neely out this election, and Flemming out in four years unless some miracle happens.
A friend once told me "there is no greater slut than a well motivated politician". A bit crude but there is a certain amount of truth to it.
It is a shame that local politics has become as slimey as national politics.
Mresquan wrote, "Fred,you're wrong.Leonard is a classic bullshitter in any environment,...".
Esquan, esquan, esquan...you fell for it. I just threw out the "winners" thing to stir the pot. I realize it's hard to call a winner because of the format.
But then you come up with your own preconceived opinion of who the winners should be just as I did.
Sure, we've had a number of subjective comments, based on preconceived notions (like yours and mine), but we also seem to actually have a few objective comments here on how the different candidates fared in the forum.
I've generally found such forums to be fairly short on substance, when I've watched them in the past so I didn't expect much from this one, especially, as has been alluded to, all the candidates were on at once rather than splitting it up into wards.
As an aside, one thing about Tish Wilburn, and I've heard this from other candidates, as well: She says what's on her mind. I heard from one politico in Eureka who said, to paraphrase, "I wish I felt free to say some of the things Tish says.".
fred if you had watched...you would havw know tish made herself look like a crazy tweaker
"At least Flemming is willing to consider new ideas, Neely's long past such open-mindedness."
You have Flemming all wrong. She represents an idealogical agenda that is backed by specific private interests. The only "new ideas" that Flemming is willing to consider are those being pushed by the special interests which back her. She has already closed the door to hearing any "new ideas" for the Balloon Track, for housing development, or for economic development.
Actually, the reason that so many Democrats support Neely is that she has really grown and changed over her many years in office. She no longer anchors a straight party-line position that only serves one narrow part of her constituency. Instead, Neely clearly recognizes that her role is to listen to all sides and to make her decisions based upon facts and law, to benefit the broader public interest.
Personally, I have little patience for elected officials who are straight idealogues, whether on the left or the right. They are typically unable to admit that their idealogical positions could occassionally be wrong, which prevents them from ever effectively working with others to find common ground.
A good elected representative must be more than just a collection of immovable positions on various issues. Rather, they should express a clear and understandable decision-making ability that allows their opinion to actually be shaped by public input, by facts and law, and by a clear recognition of their responsibility to the greater public good, and not just to their idealogical base.
By this definition, Bonnie Neely stands out as one of the best supervisors this County has. She truly represents the broad interests of the county and her diverse constituents. Bonnie Neely stands head and shoulders above Nancy Flemming.
10:21pm, lefties aren't necessarily supporting Neely,they're against Flemming,who is an aspiring career politician as well,no matter what what she says.Don't care what anyone here says,the left would've supported Richard Marks if Flemming didn't jump into the primary.Richard was clearly the best candidate.
"fred if you had watched...you would havw know tish made herself look like a crazy tweaker".
Let's be nice here, folks. I've been told her husband, Scott, has been visiting here fairly regularly.
Neely is another employee of the RCAA . She brought needle exchange to , Eureka . Her and LieVallee both belong to the rcaa bringing more white trash shelters into Eureka . I don't know about you but , i don't want my tax money going to druggies .
Neely is a carreer politician.
For Bush. Advice from Richard Salzman.
Supports and writes accolades about Arnold. Supported by the Teachers association.
Chair of County Redevelopment plan. Votes against Redevelopment in passion of public outcry.
Supported by Liberals. Registered Republican.
Supports and is supported by Danco Builders, one of the biggest non-union building developers in Northern California. Supported by United Brotherhood of Carpenters.
Dad had union shop. She has signs out there made non union.
For the environment and saving us from oil wells. Ranks almost last on Coastal Commision environmental rankings.
Supported by the Good Old Republicans. Supported by the Good old Democrats.
Politician Supreme.
Tish did not come off as some crazy tweeker! She came off as herself which is highly irreverent, flip and refreshing. Its hard to make an impression in 60 sec and the incumbants especially Wolford did ok. Kuhnel is the best of the challengers but there were no real differences outlined so why change things and have to train the new guy?
Larry Glass, with or without glasses and with or without the mop and a root job will not work with others to get anything accomplished and that is the bottom line: Plays Well With Others.
Richard was clearly the best candidate.
Neely is a carreer politician.
That pretty much sums it up. Marks was a real peoples candidate without the absolute obedience to the Salz-Loco-Demock party line they demand. That's why Salzman, Loco Solutions and Demockery Limited and the Dem Central Committee they control lined up for Neely. Now they control the Green Committee which is why they won't stand up for the people anymore either. Even the small amount of support Marks got from the established left would no longer be possible with these control factors in place. Salz-Loco-Demock have a stranglehold on Humboldt's politics and we are all suffering for the lack of fresh air.
You have Flemming all wrong. She represents an idealogical agenda that is backed by specific private interests. The only "new ideas" that Flemming is willing to consider are those being pushed by the special interests which back her.
I thought the post I took the above words from is most thought-provoking and accurate.
I know this from personal experience: If Nancy Flemming perceives you as being from Labor, she will turn her back on you, literally. Do you know how hard it is to convey a new idea to an elected leader who literally turns her back on you?
i dont care if tish's husband comes on here.....who knows who elses family comes on here....it is true she came across as a crazy tweaker....but no one is making fun of her hair, leather face or any thing else...like everyone is about the other canidates...so get over it...
in flemming tv spot she looks like she just shot her self with botox when she os holdning that syringe
Please continue to place everything in Richard's hands.That aids us lefties a whole lot more than you think.Fact is,quite a few lefties have no connection whatsover to him,don't even know him,and he has no influence over anything.He sends out fliers,rights letters,sends out e-mails,and is an organizer.We can think for ourselves,and local righties will continue to drown until they realize that.Putting everything on him,loco solutions,or duhc, only motivates the left further.
Tish came off as a regular "joe". She has the balls to say it like it is....to say what she really feels instead of what people want to hear.
Go Tish!
I don't think I'll be voting for you, but I appreciate your guts and your straight-forwardness.
We can think for ourselves,and local righties will continue to drown until they realize that.Putting everything on him,loco solutions,or duhc, only motivates the left further.
(sshhhh! Don't give the Rose Brigade any clues! They're so entertaining!)
Please continue to place everything in Richard's hands.That aids us lefties a whole lot more than you think.Fact is,quite a few lefties have no connection whatsover to him,don't even know him,and he has no influence over anything.He sends out fliers,rights letters,sends out e-mails,and is an organizer.We can think for ourselves,and local righties will continue to drown until they realize that.Putting everything on him,loco solutions,or duhc, only motivates the left further.
Don't you get it Konkler? These gangsters consider themselves to have the exclusive franchise on "the left" and its a conjob, alot of leftist can't stand thugs like Loco Solutions and the rest. Why do you keep making excuses for them? What's in it for you?
Dreamer.
Bullseye, expecting Konkler to come clean is like expecing Foley to start hitting on guys his own age.
Or expecting Mark's buddy Michael Smith to start making sense.
I have no affiliation with , Tish but i am voting for anyone that is not part of the R.C.A.A.( I'll vote for her , Droz & Flemming ) and you should too unless you want your tax money given to more white trash junkies for free housing and needles .
Peter L.
Yes ok, Jerry Droz. You sound like you got it together.
Konkler works for the R.C.A.A. too.
Is Hockaday gay?
Is Peter gay? Late first marriage. No kids. Inquiring minds want to know.
Who cares? Oh - a republican...
Yes, and now the Democrats are havings field day with Congressman Mark Foley being gay.
Democrats are encouraged to be gay, Republicans are vilifed for it.
What you do in the privacy of your home is your business.
However (Mark Foley) as a politician, never get caught in bed with a dead woman or live boy.
or, in Foley's case an 18 year old adult.
Is Peter gay? Late first marriage. No kids. Inquiring minds want to know.
Sounds like a typical Barbara Shults tactic to me, just like with her going around calling LaVallee an alcoholic who shows up drunk to meetings.
La Vallee a drunk?
That's what Shults says. Of course she also believes in UFOs and satanic cult conspiracies so consider the source.
Barbara Schulz Watch is Nick Bravo not Barbara Schulz. Nick likes UFOs and satanic cult conspiracies and tweaking with your head
What a bunch of trash irrelevant trash. Anon posters with nothing better than posting to do should get their own page and stay off Fred's. This reminds me of the Balloon Track: Full of Pollution and Bums. Sickos.
'Peter a drunk' is coming from Salzmann-just the kind of shit stirring where there is none previously and no reason to use this tactic from Virginia's point of view. She can win the election hands down without any dirty tricks. This looks and smells like a tactic the Sleezemann used in Kerrigan's last battle.
Very funny, but Salzman supports LaVallee, which I should hold against Peter but I'll restrain my gag reflex for now. Barbara Shults is closely connected to Bass and Barbara Shults is the one spreading the Peter's Alcoholism slur.
Hey, do you guys remember when Snollygoster Half-sheet used to say that anonymity on the Internet was such a great wonderful thing, because it forced people to focus on the arguments being made rather than the people making them?
That was pretty funny, wasn't it?
Downright hilarious, Hank.
Agreed.
Oh, except wasn't that Plazoid that made the argument about focusing on the issues rather than the people?
I think they both did at one time or another. Them and many others.
My rankings http://samoasoftball.blogspot.com/
Hank Sims said...
Hey, do you guys remember when Snollygoster Half-sheet used to say that anonymity on the Internet was such a great wonderful thing, because it forced people to focus on the arguments being made rather than the people making them?
That was pretty funny, wasn't it?
5:36 PM
Is that like saying we should focus on the page program and not congressman foleys criminal behavior? The slur of calling someone a drunk alchy is beyond political and the fact its coming from Peters opponent does matter. Or should we sit around discussing the political theory of clean campaigning just to ignore the dirty kind right in front of our noses?
Is that like saying we should focus on the page program and not congressman foleys criminal behavior?
It's not much like that, no.
Hey if I was Peter and I had to work with 3 deadbeats like Jones,Leonard,and Wolford, I'd drink just to be able to deal with them as well.A bottle of whiskey for both him and Chris each should get them a council meeting no problem.
9:59- I notice no Bass. She is too nice to gripe about. Right!
Hooked on Bass.
As usual Hank will make a joke out of what should be a serious inquiry. After all there shouldnt be any real investigations around here unless he thought of them first.
I think you and I must have different definitions of "investigation."
Ask around. Why is BS making this accusation against PLV and how does this reflect on the campaign tactics of VB?
WTF?
Virginia isn't going to throw any mud even if it were true which it isn't.
Barbara Shults is just a pen name for Richard Salzmann-his tactic being to throw mud at his OWN candidate thereby garnering sympathy votes. Disgusting and risky, not to mention transparent.
Your busted Richard!
does anyone really believe that? i sure dont.
Hey Hank... how did Leonard's press conference go at the Balloon Track last Thursday? Didn't see it in the media.
Not much to it, really -- mostly stuff Leonard has already said before. Maybe that's why no one wrote it up.
I'm not sure if I'll do anything on it this week or not.
12:08 Ya I believe it. Samoasoftball said if RS attcks his own candidate it scares the competition off from doing it. Something like piling on scares them away. Sounds logical better than the stickers or I would say takes a little more thought besides vandilizing parking meters. Or I give Salzman too much credit for a brain.
Barbara Shults is spreading the LaVallee alcoholic rumor, nor Salzman.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Fred, you get some real winners posting on your blog.
Yes, I know. I've just deleted a number of comments. Sometimes hard to tell what should be deleted and what should be left alone.
Stick to your entry about getting sued over posts.
Consider how people who do not participate in blogging may feel if they discovered their own name on your blog with derogatory comments! And not to mention any names and promote this activity, I think it would be wise for you to go back to last week and start deleting more.
Exception of Jeff Leonard and Peter LaVallee the incumbants will win.
3:57 cont.
Flemming over Neely easy win!
My predictions are simple. All four "progressive" candidates will win in Eureka.
By "progressive" I mean those trying to help Eureka move forward, not backwards.
BTW -- was that Salzman standing behind Peter LaVallee at his recent press event?
If so, bad choice of political consultants.
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